1 hour ago, rpfc said:

If we win 13 games and miss out on the finals on % then that is a very impressive failure.

But does it really matter? What repercussions will occur if we don't make the finals? Public apology? Wholesale delistings?

Mark the season with whatever grade you want. It won't change the attitude toward 2018 and the future, which - I have to say - is the brightest I have ever seen at this club.

everything else you've proffered here serves to qualify this   i.e  a rose is a rose is a rose.

 

Anyone who says it's a success if we have more wins than last year but still fail to make the finals have rocks in their head.
It's like me getting 50% on an exam which I need 80% for and then getting 70% the next time and saying "I done good".
No mate, you did not pass the acceptable standard, you fail. Try again.
I'm in the military, close enough isn't good enough and it hasnt been in the past 10 years of my career either.

Fact is this.
Richmond have been a laughing stock for years now for no good reason. 3 of the last 4 seasons they have made finals and this year are sitting pretty for a double chance.
Essendon were in more [censored] than the early settlers and look at how their resilience has shown and now the entire AFL community is rooting for the drug cheats.
GWS were given every concession under the sun and have taken every opportunity and are GF favourites.
Swans started the year at 0-6 and are payng $4 to win the flag.

And 11 years on it's still the same old [censored] Melbourne.

"Oh, but the whole comp is more competitive this year."
Mate, if i'm in a class full of students and I am still under the average exam score I can't sit there and justify it to myself by sayin I am only below the standard because everyone else is so smart...guess what? you're still the dumb ass that cant grasp the concept.

I'll still pay my memberships.
I'll still be on Demonland every day.
I'll still go to as many gamesas I can.
I'll still meet new family members with a Demons top and Demons Teddy.
I'll still watch every game by hook or by crook.
And I will still love my Demons more than anything.

But damn, the last time we made finals I was 15, and I have still voewd that the first final I ever go to will be a Demons game. I don't wanna be 27 with still no finals.

I think that not making finals isn't where we pass or fail. 

It is whether or not the club falls into the decades old pattern of excuse making and kicking the can down the road which will determine whether this year is a success or a failure.

Ever since I have been a supporter, we have been to apt to point the finger elsewhere. Be it poor facilities, young team, structural deficiencies, poor draw or a rigged finals system, I have heard them all (and more).

If we aren't doing that, we are talking about our 'youth' and how we will be back in the finals/winning a premiership in the next couple of years. I heard that both times after we lost the Grand Finals in '88 and 2000 as though fate determined it.

What we need to do is recognize the opportunity we have RIGHT NOW and to not let it slip. The cards may not be dealt our way, but like those 10 weeks when Gawn was out with a hamstring, we just need to make it work. 

I think as far as wins and losses go, we will improve yet again (I would say we will win 11 at the least and 12 at the most). I can live with that improvement as a supporter. What I CAN'T live with is this self reassurance that everything will be A-OK, because of who we are.

If we barely miss out this year and for once the players have it legitimately burning in their guts all Summer, then that may be a bigger success than any of us knew. We miss and it's 'Oh well. Back to the drawing board for us!', then I will want to bloody vomit.

Demon1858 , what concerns me , in your parlance, is we seem to be UN-clicking

I would rather make finals and get beaten in the first round than miss finals. We need to make finals.

Players need to experience the joy of making finals and the pain of losing a final. Hopefully it hurts like hell.

Missing finals will enforce the 'we are not good enough' mentality that pervades this club. We are already down on our target of making finals in 2016. The players need to learn that near enough is not good enough. They need to learn that effort is not optional and week in week out we must bring effort. Making finals will show the what needs to be done to take another step.

They need to learn that 1 bad quarter every week is stopping this side from becoming a really good side.

They need to send a signal to the rest of the competition that Melbourne is a difficult team to play against. Every team thinks they can beat melbourne if they put pressure on us. Even the bottom placed clubs. Until we can start belting teams and not accepting 3/4 efforts then we will never do any good.

Players like Watts are frustrating with the effort they choose to bring. Even untouchables like Salem have plenty of very average games. Tyson can get the ball but is prone to butchering it. ,and All these and others are in the nearly there but not quite category.

Hogan has some excuses but isn't where he needs to be. Garlett is a hit and miss proposition although would get a pass mark for the year. The mid-rangers like Harmes, JKH, Stretch and Frost have plenty of work to do.

Edited August 8, 20178 yr by jnrmac

53 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Demon1858 , what concerns me , in your parlance, is we seem to be UN-clicking

Hmmm ... assume that means we aren't agreeing? I think we have from time to time in the past though

22 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

Hmmm ... assume that means we aren't agreeing? I think we have from time to time in the past though

Unsure how you arrive at that but inference was towards Micks idea that its the team ability to click going into finals that's important. I agree. 

But to this observer we seem to be doing the opposite. 

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

Unsure how you arrive at that but inference was towards Micks idea that its the team ability to click going into finals that's important. I agree. 

But to this observer we seem to be doing the opposite. 

Got it ... lost it for a moment ... or more.

Yes we are unclicking at the moment as a team. But the ingredients are different these last 3 weeks. Easier draw, injured players are back having had a run, 8 day break, not travelling, and playing back at the home of footy. All pretty important drivers of success.

So its time to start clicking. We have no excuses and need to put our best foot forward.

No excuses ...at all.

So we'll see what transpires...and as importantly...how !!

Does anybody know if Donald Trump reads this site? 

Petracca just said, "Stick with us".

Season over, folks.

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Hogan has some excuses but isn't where he needs to be.

Really?

Hogan has lost a father, had surgery relating to testicular cancer, and broke his collar bone.

Some excuses...

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Dees have a new club song

 

Bloody hell, thats harsh - that'd be Port mate - wrong club. If you're buying into the fact that we should be  finals bound, you've been consuming too much press. 

24 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Really?

Hogan has lost a father, had surgery relating to testicular cancer, and broke his collar bone.

Some excuses...

Exactly. As I said. 

But Hogan is not the saviour that many on here hoped for and hold out for. He's a good, smart player but needs to improve significantly in my view if this team is to grow.

FWIW I happen to think he will be better player when Weids is in the team regularly but our fwd line in general hasn't functioned very well when he has been the focal point.

11 minutes ago, Danelska said:

Bloody hell, thats harsh - that'd be Port mate - wrong club. If you're buying into the fact that we should be  finals bound, you've been consuming too much press. 

Don't think its overly harsh at all.

Jackson on record saying we should be playing finals. The team played for a period as if it was designed to be participating in September. 

Then we see the wheels falling off. Players turning in sub par performances aided and abetted by foolish strategies in coaching.

Seems we were really only pretending. 

Other teams aren't. 

As a team do we have the ticker ? Do we have the nous ?

How ridiculous is this season?

Here's the rub from my digging around -

We would still be a real chance to play finals even if we only won one game from our set of 3 in a row at the MCG to finish the season.

Win two games and it is a borderline certainty, even if the loss is to St Kilda, because we would only need one out of Essendon or Footscray to slip up.

Win all three and we're still a chance at top 4. HA!

But, here's the thing.

If you told me 'We will define whether this season is a success or not by whether the club can beat the wooden spoon club as well as either one of the two clubs directly below us on the ladder, with every game played at our home ground", the yeah, I'd take that as a fair measure.

If we don't make the finals it will be because we failed when it mattered against inferior opposition.

On 07/08/2017 at 1:00 PM, jnrmac said:

We played better when our team was decimated by injury

 

Injuries do not just disappear. Many of those injured will be playing with a certain amount of pain and disability when they return. That is, they won't be 100% recovered.

10 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

How ridiculous is this season?

Here's the rub from my digging around -

We would still be a real chance to play finals even if we only won one game from our set of 3 in a row at the MCG to finish the season.

Win two games and it is a borderline certainty, even if the loss is to St Kilda, because we would only need one out of Essendon or Footscray to slip up.

Win all three and we're still a chance at top 4. HA!

But, here's the thing.

If you told me 'We will define whether this season is a success or not by whether the club can beat the wooden spoon club as well as either one of the two clubs directly below us on the ladder, with every game played at our home ground", the yeah, I'd take that as a fair measure.

If we don't make the finals it will be because we failed when it mattered against inferior opposition.

Our recent form does not fill me with massive hope for the next three games. St Kilda looked pretty good on the weekend.

7 hours ago, rpfc said:

If we win 13 games and miss out on the finals on % then that is a very impressive failure.

But does it really matter? What repercussions will occur if we don't make the finals? Public apology? Wholesale delistings?

Mark the season with whatever grade you want. It won't change the attitude toward 2018 and the future, which - I have to say - is the brightest I have ever seen at this club.

We should want/demand success now.  we have been looking to the future for too long - and we know the future doesn't often work out how you plan.

Making and playing in finals will bring much needed belief to the group and expedite our rise to being a quality team

27 minutes ago, Skin D said:

Injuries do not just disappear. Many of those injured will be playing with a certain amount of pain and disability when they return. That is, they won't be 100% recovered.

Not my point. We played better when those players were out iof the team

I enjoyed the ride this year,   as I did last year.   but the ending  leaves a sour taste in the mouth,   like a love affair.  Poor ending and don't really know how I feel.   Carn a DEES

49 minutes ago, Skin D said:

Our recent form does not fill me with massive hope for the next three games. St Kilda looked pretty good on the weekend.

I will say this, St Kilda have been just as if not more inconsistent than us this year. They've had some good wins, but some terrible losses. 

I feel like Saints fans will be feeling as unsure about which side turns up as us. 

I will also say because this season has been crazy and it's a chance, if we somehow end up on 13 wins but miss the finals that will be a pretty successful failure. I'll be disappointed but also pragmatic, knowing that there has been significant improvement. 

But for now it's just what's right in front of us. Win this week Melbourne, prove to us what David King (prematurely) said that we are not the Melbourne from the past. 

1 hour ago, Little Goffy said:

If you told me 'We will define whether this season is a success or not by whether the club can beat the wooden spoon club as well as either one of the two clubs directly below us on the ladder, with every game played at our home ground", the yeah, I'd take that as a fair measure.

If we don't make the finals it will be because we failed when it mattered against inferior opposition.

North says hi  and hi again as do a few other mediocre teams

The reality is that we have played a few good quarters and one or two good games but rarely has the team functioned as such.

I would love to be surprised by the next few weeks but MFCSS tells me to be ready for disappointment. Until we can build consistency in a core group of players we will always be struggling. While I understand the game plan it is high risk and it does not lend itself to high scores which tends to make games against lesser sides closer than they used to be.

Here's hoping... BTW 6 weeks ago I considered a prelim final a successful year but that was then.

 

Our "quarters" have dropped off the boil quite markedly.

Need to pick up the ball again 

44 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

North says hi  and hi again as do a few other mediocre teams

The reality is that we have played a few good quarters and one or two good games but rarely has the team functioned as such.

I would love to be surprised by the next few weeks but MFCSS tells me to be ready for disappointment. Until we can build consistency in a core group of players we will always be struggling. While I understand the game plan it is high risk and it does not lend itself to high scores which tends to make games against lesser sides closer than they used to be.

Here's hoping... BTW 6 weeks ago I considered a prelim final a successful year but that was then.

 

Kind of my point too, about North.

Funny that this year we've beaten Carlton only to replace them with another bottom-of-table bogey team. And I'm not just referring to Carlton last year. You can go back quite a way and keep on finding Carlton messing up our season. I think it was 2004, maybe 2006 where Carlton had 4.5 wins for the season and two of them were against us, costing us a top-4 spot.

However, I disagree that we've played 'a few good quarters' this year. We've actually won a lot of quarters and been going strong for 'most games, most of the time', but it has been frequent catastrophic lapses of 20 minutes or so which have cost us about 5 extra wins. I'd argue that, for the most part this year, we have been playing high-intensity football as a team but not able to sustain it with full consistency.

That said... the last couple of games haven't felt like especially 'high-intensity', have they. If we don't get that back in time to hand out a couple of scoreboard whacks in these last three games at the 'G, then it is another season of fading out late.

So, there's another way to measure our season - can we correct our two most serious problems - the deep in-game lapses, and the late-season fadeout.