6 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

She's inviting it because a. some of her comments were absolutely disgraceful, b. she chose to have a social media account that was accessible by the general public, and c. she chose not to block any "trolls".

Do I think that it's right?  Hell no.  But it's how society is, and if you are a public figure that has mental health concerns, platforms like Twitter aren't a great place for you to be.

White House says Hello.....

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

What are they investigating ?

What were some of their recent stories you liked ?

Besides the work they did throughout the EFC doping saga which was the best by far, they also did some work in conjunction with others last year on Unaoil and some articles just this week on the Chinese businessmen with links to the Communist party attempting to infiltrate Aus politics. There's been more over the last couple of years that I can't recall off the top of my head

7 hours ago, beelzebub said:

I have a strange visualisation of an  old codger attired salubriously  , pajamas wrapped in silk morning dressing gown, argyle slippers.  Bifocals adjusted to take in the home delivered news-sheet. English breakfast steeping  whilst a pair of 4 min eggs awaits digestion before kippers.

Never been the same since the Raj fell ...eh what !!

I am rather affronted by the "old codger" reference.

Eggs Benedict BTW.

And you missed the maid standing by to turn the pages for me.

6 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I am rather affronted by the "old codger" reference.

Eggs Benedict BTW.

And you missed the maid standing by to turn the pages for me.

Interesting as to where i was wrong.........

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Besides the work they did throughout the EFC doping saga which was the best by far, they also did some work in conjunction with others last year on Unaoil and some articles just this week on the Chinese businessmen with links to the Communist party attempting to infiltrate Aus politics. There's been more over the last couple of years that I can't recall off the top of my head

I think they investigated the note printing bribery allegations of 2011(?). A number of good articles there iirc.

9 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Not so much to Journalists ( real ones ) ...just the hack pretenders !!

And why the Age? They are so better than that moron slobbo at the HS (how Gerard Whateley puts up with him I have no idea (oh yes I do it is called $$$).

Caro is by far the best AFL journalist running around (and the recently departed Rohan Connelly the worst, at least in the Fairfax stable!) and that includes all the radio and television hacks on mega bucks. 

To compare the Age with the Murdoch Press is like comparing Trump with Macron: one has brains that other has none. 

1 hour ago, Dees2014 said:

And why the Age? They are so better than that moron slobbo at the HS (how Gerard Whateley puts up with him I have no idea (oh yes I do it is called $$$).

Caro is by far the best AFL journalist running around (and the recently departed Rohan Connelly the worst, at least in the Fairfax stable!) and that includes all the radio and television hacks on mega bucks. 

To compare the Age with the Murdoch Press is like comparing Trump with Macron: one has brains that other has none. 

If you want to read biased left-wing bile The Age is great.

13 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

She is an absolute moron. Same as Bolt, cut from the same cloth.

I have a theory that Clementine Ford and Andrew Bolt are actually just different 'brand faces' for the same behind-the-scenes writer.

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

If you want to read biased left-wing bile The Age is great.

And if you prefer tabloid right wing "journalism" the Herald Sun is the go. 

4 hours ago, Pates said:

And if you prefer tabloid right wing "journalism" the Herald Sun is the go. 

There's not actually much "news" in the Herald sun. As an exercise take a black texta and cross out anything that is opinion, advertising, ads masked as news, celebrity tabloid gossip or sport and see what you're left with.

Haven't really read the age cover to cover for some time, I suspect it is going the same way only not as bad. But at least they still do have some quality journalism in there.

There's not much news ( real news) in any of News , Heraldsun or The Aged.

A lot of celebrity rubbish, a lot of opinion and way too much agenda and thats just the sport !!!

Rest of rags same but still rubbish in the main.

Why would anyone waste a cent on tbem.

20 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Besides the work they did throughout the EFC doping saga which was the best by far, they also did some work in conjunction with others last year on Unaoil and some articles just this week on the Chinese businessmen with links to the Communist party attempting to infiltrate Aus politics. There's been more over the last couple of years that I can't recall off the top of my head

McKenzie and Baker: brilliant. The best investigative journalists in the country. Hundreds of stories over the past few years. So much more than anybody else: the Herald Sun, the moron's choice, licking the boots of the bosses. 

 

The demise of proper journalism is a threat to us all. The reason for the demise, of course, is the rise of Google, Facebook, et. al and their hoovering up of the advertisers' money. A couple of years ago I met an editor who'd worked at The New Yorker. Told me when she started out, she was employed as a fact-checker. She was one of seventeen. Imagine that: seventeen people at one magazine whose sole task was to confirm the veracity of every bit of information in the magazine. 

 

What do we have now? That smarmy little bastard Zuckerberg who is happy to allow his crappy network to publish anything - anything! terrorists' propaganda, violence, paedophilia, - as long as the advertisers keep shovelling him the dough. They're one of the reasons we have a problem with the Jihadis. Won't even hand over the details of terrorists to the security forces because it threatens their income (of course they're happy to sell your most intimate details to marketing companies).

 

The long-term implications are frightful. The death of truth, the rise of scum, growing ignorance, division, hatred and chaos.

 

 

Edited June 8, 20178 yr by Jara

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

There's not actually much "news" in the Herald sun. As an exercise take a black texta and cross out anything that is opinion, advertising, ads masked as news, celebrity tabloid gossip or sport and see what you're left with.

Haven't really read the age cover to cover for some time, I suspect it is going the same way only not as bad. But at least they still do have some quality journalism in there.

I think what you'll find you're left with is barely edited media releases masquerading as news from politicians, businesses and anyone else. The evidence to back that up is the lack of a byline on much of the Herald Sun's copy.

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

There's not much news ( real news) in any of News , Heraldsun or The Aged.

A lot of celebrity rubbish, a lot of opinion and way too much agenda and thats just the sport !!!

Rest of rags same but still rubbish in the main.

Why would anyone waste a cent on tbem.

I think to be fair, as a business model the only way print has any chance to survive is to replace much of the "news" with opinion as the "news" will almost always be out of date by the time the print newspaper is bought (or delivered). A "newspaper" which had only "news" would be stale; at least with opinion pieces it is able to deliver something analytical and thoughtful. At least, in theory. It depends, of course, on whether the opinion writers are worth reading. Love them or hate them, that's what Andrew Bolt, Caroline Wilson, Martin Flanagan and Terry McCrann do and why they are crucial to those newspapers.

17 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Besides the work they did throughout the EFC doping saga which was the best by far, they also did some work in conjunction with others last year on Unaoil and some articles just this week on the Chinese businessmen with links to the Communist party attempting to infiltrate Aus politics. There's been more over the last couple of years that I can't recall off the top of my head

 

10 hours ago, ProDee said:

If you want to read biased left-wing bile The Age is great.

 

19 hours ago, The Chazz said:

The problem with those workers at Ford, Alcoa, etc, is that a lot of them have been doing the same job for 30-odd years, and they are often low skill jobs.  In recent times, a lot of these jobs have since been taken over by automation or from being shipped offshore.  These workers are in a terrible situation when job cuts are being made.

In a "profession" such as journalism, if you are made redundant from one place, you won't stay unemployed for long, especially if you are a decent one.  And given RoCo has other income-generating gigs, I'm sure that would ease the pain somewhat (especially compared to those industries you mentioned).

I don't think you understand the parlous employment prospects of modern journalists who actually want to pursue their craft.  Connolly has options only because he works in the burgeoning AFL domain.  The only avenue for most is PR.

I work in media, I'm not a journalist.  

Edited June 7, 20178 yr by Fifty-5

9 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

 

 

Gonzo's post doesn't repudiate my assertion.

21 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I think to be fair, as a business model the only way print has any chance to survive is to replace much of the "news" with opinion as the "news" will almost always be out of date by the time the print newspaper is bought (or delivered). A "newspaper" which had only "news" would be stale; at least with opinion pieces it is able to deliver something analytical and thoughtful. At least, in theory. It depends, of course, on whether the opinion writers are worth reading. Love them or hate them, that's what Andrew Bolt, Caroline Wilson, Martin Flanagan and Terry McCrann do and why they are crucial to those newspapers.

I dont buy papers

I am actually refering to their online versions.

Its still mainly rubbish.

44 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I think what you'll find you're left with is barely edited media releases masquerading as news from politicians, businesses and anyone else. The evidence to back that up is the lack of a byline on much of the Herald Sun's copy.

Yeah thats kind of what I meant by "ads masked as news" but media releases masquerading as news is definitely another one.

18 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I dont buy papers

I am actually refering to their online versions.

Its still mainly rubbish.

I don't buy papers either anymore but do flick through them when grabbing my morning coffee. It's a shame because once it's all online things will only get worse.

27 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I dont buy papers

I am actually refering to their online versions.

Its still mainly rubbish.

And that's partly because they're neither one thing or the other. Their online versions mostly just rehash what's in print.

I haven't got a solution for them, by the way, unless they can find digital profit centres that can offset their loss-making traditional media businesses.

51 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I don't think you understand the parlous employment prospects of modern journalists who actually want to pursue their craft.  Connolly has options only because he works in the burgeoning AFL domain.  The only avenue for most is PR.

I work in media, I'm not a journalist.  

Has been the way since the industrial revolution. Buggy whip makers wanted to pursue their craft as well.

All those in private enterprise are exposed to the changing technological landscape. Journos think they are somehow beyond that. IMO they have exacerbated their demise by becoming partisan cheerleaders and non-essential to most people under 30 who get their news from Buzzfeed, FB, Google and Twitter. God knows how that will turn out.

Everyone needs to learn new skills to remain relevant to employers. Not everyone can work for government.

Edited June 8, 20178 yr by jnrmac

57 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I don't think you understand the parlous employment prospects of modern journalists who actually want to pursue their craft.  Connolly has options only because he works in the burgeoning AFL domain.  The only avenue for most is PR.

I work in media, I'm not a journalist.  

Amazingly, job prospects for journalists are a lot better now than what they were 5 years ago.  The ever-increasing platforms that journalists can have their work displayed will ensure this.  You will find every university that offers a communication/journalism degree will direct their students down the non-traditional journalism outlets because that's where the journalism jobs are, and will be in the future.

The more traditional media outlets, such as print media, this is where job prospects are lot more shaky.  These outlets have needed to adjust to modern times, or they found themselves going backwards at a great rate of knots.

Reality is, there will always be journalists.  When you want to be specialised in a certain area of journalism, that's when you can suffer from industry downturn or industry changes (i.e. technology).  But I say it again, if you are very good in your specialty, then you will find work elsewhere.  This is the same with many higher skilled professions.  Unfortunately, industries like those mentioned earlier (i.e. Alcoa, Ford, etc), they are in great danger.  But every industry is the same (and more than ever does this apply in modern times), if you think you just go to uni, get a degree, then get a job and live happily every after, you will become replaceable very quickly.  The need to value-add to an employer has never been more important.  That's part of the reason why a lot of the sports journos are involved in other forms of media.

An interesting take on journalism - I heard an industry expert say that journalism is one of the most practiced careers of teenagers.  They take a photo, post it on Instagram, write an "article" about what the story is.  A very simplistic way of looking at journalism, but the foundations are basically the same.

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Has been the way since the industrial revolution. Buggy whip makers wanted to pursue their craft as well.

All those in private enterprise are exposed to the changing technological landscape. Journos think they are somehow beyond that. IMO they have exacerbated their demise by becoming partisan cheerleaders and non-essential to most people under 30 who get their news from Buzzfeed, FB, Google and Twitter. God knows how that will turn out.

Everyone needs to learn new skills to remain relevant to employers. Not everyone can work for government.

Print advertising funded good journalism.  Broadcast media are also in the content creation business, so advertising there also funds professional content creation - both entertainment and news.

Digital has broken that model in 2 ways:

1. specialist free-to-use advertising-only media, like Carsales.com.au and Realestate.com.au
2. Content platforms with advertising where the content is created for free by the public, like Facebook

We're richer is many ways but poorer in some important ways - loss of good quality journalism.

Edited June 8, 20178 yr by Fifty-5

3 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Amazingly, job prospects for journalists are a lot better now than what they were 5 years ago.  The ever-increasing platforms that journalists can have their work displayed will ensure this.  You will find every university that offers a communication/journalism degree will direct their students down the non-traditional journalism outlets because that's where the journalism jobs are, and will be in the future.

The more traditional media outlets, such as print media, this is where job prospects are lot more shaky.  These outlets have needed to adjust to modern times, or they found themselves going backwards at a great rate of knots.

Reality is, there will always be journalists.  When you want to be specialised in a certain area of journalism, that's when you can suffer from industry downturn or industry changes (i.e. technology).  But I say it again, if you are very good in your specialty, then you will find work elsewhere.  This is the same with many higher skilled professions.  Unfortunately, industries like those mentioned earlier (i.e. Alcoa, Ford, etc), they are in great danger.  But every industry is the same (and more than ever does this apply in modern times), if you think you just go to uni, get a degree, then get a job and live happily every after, you will become replaceable very quickly.  The need to value-add to an employer has never been more important.  That's part of the reason why a lot of the sports journos are involved in other forms of media.

An interesting take on journalism - I heard an industry expert say that journalism is one of the most practiced careers of teenagers.  They take a photo, post it on Instagram, write an "article" about what the story is.  A very simplistic way of looking at journalism, but the foundations are basically the same.

 

 

 

People taking "a communication/journalism degree" are working in marketing communications and PR for corporations and government - not in journalism.

Please list the media companies that have "adjust(ed) to modern times" and are employing more journalists.