The Importance of Jordan Lewis

[Fat Tony 5,217]

39 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Wells has hardly played.

We wouldn't have got lewis iof not for three years.

I would back the footy dept over you any day.

I think Wells and Lewis will both be well and truly finished before three years. I hope I am proven wrong on Lewis, but I wouldn't call his recruitment a success unless he plays 50 AFL games for us given the money he is on.

And, Jnr, you only back the footy department when you agree with them. You have been ultra critical of the selection of Oscar McDonald. I am backing the footy department on that call.

[old55 23,369]

A man's gotta know his limitations ...

Lewis has had to pace himself early but recently he has stepped up and definitely walked his talk.  It will be interesting to see if he can keep it up over the next few weeks.  If he does then he'll be vindicated.

There's no way he'll see the 3rd year of his contract but I wont judge his recruitment on that.

[binman 42,629]

24 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I think Wells and Lewis will both be well and truly finished before three years. 

 

I agree lewis unlikely to play 2 more years after this (im assuming you mean in the senior). I think we will be lucky to get one more year of senior footy. 

But i very much doubt lewis will want to play out his career at casey, which is what will likely happen if he sees his contract out. I suspect he will retire before allowing that to happen.

But even if he chooses to play in 2019, as will be his right, he will be valuable to have at the club given his professionalism and experience - even if he is playing at casey.

Also i would think his contract is front loaded and in the second and third years has a number of performance related clauses.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

54 minutes ago, Ben E said:

Don't worry, you'll get your gotcha moments, your "I told you so" moments, soon enough with his next fumble, missed handball, slight slip-up or whatever other supposed sign of terminal decline you wish to focus on and continually peddle.

I don't know if you include me in the "naysaying brethren" but what always amazes me about DL is the need to see issues as black and white.  STMJ says OMac is no good and refuses to recognize his very good form this year.  WYL says Salem should be traded for his lack of discipline on Saturday and hasn't seen the incident that led to that comment. Go figure.

I've recognized that Lewis has been best 22 from day one.  I've questioned his "on field coaching" role because unless your on the ground you don't know what was said by whom.  I saw Jones indicate for Lewis to go down back when Gawn went off so let's not pretend the rest of the team is incapable of making such a move.

But lets not ignore his shortcomings when recognizing his contribution.  He can't play a defensive role down back because he's too slow, he can only play as a spare.  He has fumbled a lot and he does go to ground.  He doesn't have the speed to find time to handball well when under pressure and does turn it over.  There was a clear instance of this on Sunday. He hasn't put his body on the line in past games as he did on Sunday and as Old55 says, he might be pacing himself.  If so that's a significant limitation and admission of his declining abilities.

And I don't rate his leadership as others do when he pots someone behind play and gets a three week suspension, you don't see Viney or Jones doing that. That suspension cost us one and arguably two games.  We could be competing for a top 4 spot if he (and Vince) hadn't shown a complete lack of leadership.

I think he'll struggle to play next year because the game is not going to get any slower.  There will be improvement from players like Stretch, Smith and Maynard who have not played regularly this year and Salem, Hogan, AVB and Watts are still to return.  Then of course you have the trading and draft period where we will try to improve our list as well.  The reality is Lewis will get worse while others will get better and at some point he isn't best 22.  I think that is likely to be early next year, others don't.  Why posters seem to think it's a competition to get it right I don't know.  As TGR says, time will tell.  And who gives a flying F if they're wrong anyway, there wouldn't be a person on this forum who hasn't "got it wrong".  It's a discussion point for heavens sake.

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

2 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I don't know if you include me in the "naysaying brethren" but what always amazes me about DL is the need to see issues as black and white.  STMJ says OMac is no good and refuses to recognize his very good form this year.  WYL says Salem should be traded for his lack of discipline on Saturday and hasn't seen the incident that led to that comment. Go figure.

I've recognized that Lewis has been best 22 from day one.  I've questioned his "on field coaching" role because unless your on the ground you don't know what was said by whom.  I saw Jones indicate for Lewis to go down back when Gawn went off so let's not pretend the rest of the team is incapable of making such a move.

But lets not ignore his shortcomings when recognizing his contribution.  He can't play a defensive role down back because he's too slow, he can only play as a spare.  He has fumbled a lot and he does go to ground.  He doesn't have the speed to find time to handball well when under pressure and does turn it over.  There was a clear instance of this on Sunday. He hasn't put his body on the line in past games as he did on Sunday and as Old55 says, he might be pacing himself.  If so that's a significant limitation and admission of his declining abilities.

And I don't rate his leadership as others do when he pots someone behind play and gets a three week suspension, you don't see Viney or Jones doing that. That suspension cost us one and arguably two games.  We could be competing for a top 4 spot if he (and Vince) hadn't shown a complete lack of leadership.

I think he'll struggle to play next year because the game is not going to get any slower.  There will be improvement from players like Stretch, Smith and Maynard who have not played regularly this year and Salem, Hogan, AVB and Watts are still to return.  Then of course you have the trading and draft period where we will try to improve our list as well.  The reality is Lewis will get worse while others will get better and at some point he isn't best 22.  I think that is likely to be early next year, others don't.  Why posters seem to think it's a competition to get it right I don't know.  As TGR says, time will tell.  And who gives a flying F if they're wrong anyway, there wouldn't be a person on this forum who hasn't "got it wrong".  It's a discussion point for heavens sake.

 

Don't misquote me. 

I stated it would be interesting to see what Salem is worth on the trade table, i did not say that he should be traded...

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,687]

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Don't misquote me. 

I stated it would be interesting to see what Salem is worth on the trade table, i did not say that he should be traded...

So, what would the point of that be? It's like finding out what your house is worth when you're not interested in selling it. That is, information of absolutely no value.

[Redleg 40,817]

2 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I don't know if you include me in the "naysaying brethren" but what always amazes me about DL is the need to see issues as black and white.  STMJ says OMac is no good and refuses to recognize his very good form this year.  WYL says Salem should be traded for his lack of discipline on Saturday and hasn't seen the incident that led to that comment. Go figure.

I've recognized that Lewis has been best 22 from day one.  I've questioned his "on field coaching" role because unless your on the ground you don't know what was said by whom.  I saw Jones indicate for Lewis to go down back when Gawn went off so let's not pretend the rest of the team is incapable of making such a move.

But lets not ignore his shortcomings when recognizing his contribution.  He can't play a defensive role down back because he's too slow, he can only play as a spare.  He has fumbled a lot and he does go to ground.  He doesn't have the speed to find time to handball well when under pressure and does turn it over.  There was a clear instance of this on Sunday. He hasn't put his body on the line in past games as he did on Sunday and as Old55 says, he might be pacing himself.  If so that's a significant limitation and admission of his declining abilities.

And I don't rate his leadership as others do when he pots someone behind play and gets a three week suspension, you don't see Viney or Jones doing that. That suspension cost us one and arguably two games.  We could be competing for a top 4 spot if he (and Vince) hadn't shown a complete lack of leadership.

I think he'll struggle to play next year because the game is not going to get any slower.  There will be improvement from players like Stretch, Smith and Maynard who have not played regularly this year and Salem, Hogan, AVB and Watts are still to return.  Then of course you have the trading and draft period where we will try to improve our list as well.  The reality is Lewis will get worse while others will get better and at some point he isn't best 22.  I think that is likely to be early next year, others don't.  Why posters seem to think it's a competition to get it right I don't know.  As TGR says, time will tell.  And who gives a flying F if they're wrong anyway, there wouldn't be a person on this forum who hasn't "got it wrong".  It's a discussion point for heavens sake.

 

I've never got it wrong. 

[ManDee 7,124]

5 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

So, what would the point of that be? It's like finding out what your house is worth when you're not interested in selling it. That is, information of absolutely no value.

Seriously? How much equity do you have, how much can you borrow etc. not a good example.

What if we could get Lever as a swap would that be of any interest or perhaps Salem & a 2nd round pick for Kelly? That would be the point I imagine. 

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

17 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

So, what would the point of that be? It's like finding out what your house is worth when you're not interested in selling it. That is, information of absolutely no value.

Not at all. I had my house valued last month by The Bank

it has gone up nicely thank you

i now have more investment leverage and i still own the house

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

11 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Seriously? How much equity do you have, how much can you borrow etc. not a good example.

What if we could get Lever as a swap would that be of any interest or perhaps Salem & a 2nd round pick for Kelly? That would be the point I imagine. 

Exactly. Salem has talent, no doubt. But he is still on the edge of the senior side. His job last week was to strive to be BOG, not to get reported and rubbed out. 

His worth to the MFC is still undecided either way....

[ManDee 7,124]

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Exactly. Salem has talent, no doubt. But he is still on the edge of the senior side. His job last week was to strive to be BOG, not to get reported and rubbed out. 

His worth to the MFC is still undecided either way....

SWYL, I have watched the Salem event several times and I cannot see why he was reported let alone rubbed out. It is hard to imagine that it was his intention to get reported & rubbed out. I like Salem but would consider a trade if we could get a star.

[martin 727]

3 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I don't know if you include me in the "naysaying brethren" but what always amazes me about DL is the need to see issues as black and white.  STMJ says OMac is no good and refuses to recognize his very good form this year.  WYL says Salem should be traded for his lack of discipline on Saturday and hasn't seen the incident that led to that comment. Go figure.

I've recognized that Lewis has been best 22 from day one.  I've questioned his "on field coaching" role because unless your on the ground you don't know what was said by whom.  I saw Jones indicate for Lewis to go down back when Gawn went off so let's not pretend the rest of the team is incapable of making such a move.

But lets not ignore his shortcomings when recognizing his contribution.  He can't play a defensive role down back because he's too slow, he can only play as a spare.  He has fumbled a lot and he does go to ground.  He doesn't have the speed to find time to handball well when under pressure and does turn it over.  There was a clear instance of this on Sunday. He hasn't put his body on the line in past games as he did on Sunday and as Old55 says, he might be pacing himself.  If so that's a significant limitation and admission of his declining abilities.

And I don't rate his leadership as others do when he pots someone behind play and gets a three week suspension, you don't see Viney or Jones doing that. That suspension cost us one and arguably two games.  We could be competing for a top 4 spot if he (and Vince) hadn't shown a complete lack of leadership.

I think he'll struggle to play next year because the game is not going to get any slower.  There will be improvement from players like Stretch, Smith and Maynard who have not played regularly this year and Salem, Hogan, AVB and Watts are still to return.  Then of course you have the trading and draft period where we will try to improve our list as well.  The reality is Lewis will get worse while others will get better and at some point he isn't best 22.  I think that is likely to be early next year, others don't.  Why posters seem to think it's a competition to get it right I don't know.  As TGR says, time will tell.  And who gives a flying F if they're wrong anyway, there wouldn't be a person on this forum who hasn't "got it wrong".  It's a discussion point for heavens sake.

 

So, so boring?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,687]

46 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Seriously? How much equity do you have, how much can you borrow etc. not a good example.

What if we could get Lever as a swap would that be of any interest or perhaps Salem & a 2nd round pick for Kelly? That would be the point I imagine. 

OK, bad example. But the point I was trying to make was that if you have zero interest in trading a player, you don't need to know what he is worth. If, on the other hand, you operate on the principle that at the right price every player is tradeable, then go ahead and find out what he might be worth. Just don't argue that you'd like to know his value if there is no intention of trading him. 

[Nasher 33,607]

I feel like this "game not getting any slower" discussion sounds a lot like the discussions had about Daniel Cross. They're not the same player in that Cross was a run all day, truly tough inside mid. The relevance is that Lewis, like Cross, was always slow to start with. 

Injury might limit Lewis in the latter years, and obviously you can't predict that now, but I'm not sure declining pace will.

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

1 hour ago, ManDee said:

SWYL, I have watched the Salem event several times and I cannot see why he was reported let alone rubbed out. It is hard to imagine that it was his intention to get reported & rubbed out. I like Salem but would consider a trade if we could get a star.

So would i, he is worth quite a bit on the trade table i suspect. Only worth trading for top shelf. 

I am happy if he stays, absolutely. But it is debatable as to whether we have got good value out of him since 2014. 

He has missed a lot of games...

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

52 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

OK, bad example. But the point I was trying to make was that if you have zero interest in trading a player, you don't need to know what he is worth. If, on the other hand, you operate on the principle that at the right price every player is tradeable, then go ahead and find out what he might be worth. Just don't argue that you'd like to know his value if there is no intention of trading him. 

Nothing wrong with knowing the worth of your assets. 

A deal can always be around the corner

[Garbo 1,519]

Things can change quickly but as of this year Lewis would be one of the first selected each week and unless Injury gets him I don't expect that will change next year either. It would take a fair number of players to go past him before we was outside of the best 22. Outside of Stretch, Maynard and Smith who would be potentially pushing him out anyway.

[rpfc 28,253]

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

I've never got it wrong. 

I was wrong once.

[nutbean 8,838]

16 hours ago, rpfc said:

I was wrong once.

me too. It was a Tuesday and it was raining.....

[TGR 1,367]

18 hours ago, Nasher said:

I feel like this "game not getting any slower" discussion sounds a lot like the discussions had about Daniel Cross. They're not the same player in that Cross was a run all day, truly tough inside mid. The relevance is that Lewis, like Cross, was always slow to start with. 

Injury might limit Lewis in the latter years, and obviously you can't predict that now, but I'm not sure declining pace will.

Good points about peak pace being similar to old-man pace when the player is slow to begin with anyway.  I think MFC needed Cross at the time more than we need Lewis in 17/18/19.  Cross though never chose when to go in his superannuant years.  Cross's hands were elite, whereas I would say Jordie's kicking has been good in 17.  Cross's decision-making was elite at his time in Melbourne.  Wouldn't say the same for JL.

 

If you go through Melbourne's list, and some commentators pointed to this during our lean stretch in the past month, we are over-stocked with one-paced players that are not brilliant on the outside.  I wouldn't swap Petracca for the world, but he aint lightning.  Brayshaw's game surprised me, but he aint lightning.  Ditto Vince, Jones, Tyson, Salem, Trengove, ANB and the list goes on.  Stretch's and JKH (not super quick anway) slow progress doesn't help this situation.  The emergence of Hunt and the cheap get of Garlett has saved our hide to some degree.  

Lewis was the last player type I would have salivated over in November 2016.  His going to ground to a make one hail mary at a contest, rather than staying in the contest, will cost us in September.  Do some of us really think he is on par (capable and productive) than many of his contemporaries that have announced they are retiring now.

The AFL have purposefully taken congestion out of the game with certain rules being implemented and highlighted.  The game is getting quicker, in a different way.

[jnrmac 20,053]

On 8/15/2017 at 0:14 PM, Fat Tony said:

I think Wells and Lewis will both be well and truly finished before three years. I hope I am proven wrong on Lewis, but I wouldn't call his recruitment a success unless he plays 50 AFL games for us given the money he is on.

And, Jnr, you only back the footy department when you agree with them. You have been ultra critical of the selection of Oscar McDonald. I am backing the footy department on that call.

the money is irrelevant. We have to pay the cap. Not sure why poeple don't understand that.

As for the footy dept, I said I would back the footy dept over you. I stand by that

[jnrmac 20,053]

17 hours ago, rpfc said:

I was wrong once.

 

1 hour ago, nutbean said:

me too. It was a Tuesday and it was raining.....

About 10 years ago....

[martin 727]

1 hour ago, TGR said:

Good points about peak pace being similar to old-man pace when the player is slow to begin with anyway.  I think MFC needed Cross at the time more than we need Lewis in 17/18/19.  Cross though never chose when to go in his superannuant years.  Cross's hands were elite, whereas I would say Jordie's kicking has been good in 17.  Cross's decision-making was elite at his time in Melbourne.  Wouldn't say the same for JL.

 

If you go through Melbourne's list, and some commentators pointed to this during our lean stretch in the past month, we are over-stocked with one-paced players that are not brilliant on the outside.  I wouldn't swap Petracca for the world, but he aint lightning.  Brayshaw's game surprised me, but he aint lightning.  Ditto Vince, Jones, Tyson, Salem, Trengove, ANB and the list goes on.  Stretch's and JKH (not super quick anway) slow progress doesn't help this situation.  The emergence of Hunt and the cheap get of Garlett has saved our hide to some degree.  

Lewis was the last player type I would have salivated over in November 2016.  His going to ground to a make one hail mary at a contest, rather than staying in the contest, will cost us in September.  Do some of us really think he is on par (capable and productive) than many of his contemporaries that have announced they are retiring now.

The AFL have purposefully taken congestion out of the game with certain rules being implemented and highlighted.  The game is getting quicker, in a different way.

The yawn increases.

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

On 15/08/2017 at 7:16 AM, Petraccattack said:

Melksham has been great too.  Our recruiting has done a total 180 since the Roos era began.

recruitment AND the development!

[rpfc 28,253]

13 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

 

About 10 years ago....

About 5 years ago...