POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 5

[chook fowler 19,444]

To be fair with a little bit of luck we could be 5/0 - even though we have lost 3 straight there has not been 1 blow out. The stupid suspensions of Lewis and Horan have cost us dearly. This year won't be our year but watch out. No one could criticise our endeavour and for most of the game our disposal efficiency was between 70 - 80% and we had way more inside 50s. If we had a full bench we would have won this convincingly.

[olisik 4,060]

Just saw an article saying Tom McDonald has conceded more goals to a direct opponent then any other player in the league since 2013.

Guy needs a run in the twos to learn some accountability and to stop harping on to the media about how his one of the games premier backmen

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

5 hours ago, rufus said:

During the last 10 minutes he:-

- gave away a stupid free banging into a guys head while he went down to pick up the ball...You could see it unfolding like slow motion and you just knew he was going to give that free away. Zero excuses for it.

- missed a simple opportunity to spoil a ball out of bounds that resulted in Riewoldt getting up and kicking a point (lucky). It was just a terrible effort in a contest.

- conceded a 'contested' mark to Riewoldt in slippery conditions when he had him exactly where you want him...Without a good run at the ball.

Three stinkers that you may see spread out across a season for good AFL defenders but we are treated to them in a 10 minute burst with the game on the line.

This club should expect more and until we demand excellence we will continue to get what we've always got.

God I get tired of the TMac bashing. He did not plough into a guys head. They were belting after the ball and the  guy ducked to pick it up. He is, in general,  a great one on one player. I thought his game last night was really good and balanced. Even his disposal was fantastic. No one wins every marking contest, as a defender the dice are always stacked against you since the ball is being delivered by the opposition to their own advantage. 

Everyone loves to bag KPDs, it was the same with frawley. Any mistake deep in defence can be catastrophic and draw attention to something that would be no big deal in the forward line. Without TMac we would be in a world of pain.

Our defence needs a chance to settle and gel. Having Hibberd and Frost back there is looking really good. They need a chance to get that intuitive feel for where the other will go. 

[Adam The God 30,126]

33 minutes ago, demoniac said:

Keeps getting called for throwing yet keeps doing the same thing. Needs to change that quick.

Rubbish. If he gets called for throwing 1 or 2 times a game and gets away with it 6 or 7 times, I'm happy for him to keep doing it. Have you watched the Bulldogs play? Or Sam Mitchell? Or Joel Selwood? The kid is a star and the only knock on his game at the moment is his ability to hit the scoreboard. If he can do that he'll be a superstar.

[Nasher 33,607]

5 minutes ago, olisik said:

Just saw an article saying Tom McDonald has conceded more goals to a direct opponent then any other player in the league since 2013.

Guy needs a run in the twos to learn some accountability and to stop harping on to the media about how his one of the games premier backmen

Hahahahahahahahahaha, was there anything more predictable than olisik picking up on this stat and running with it?

[Adam The God 30,126]

6 minutes ago, olisik said:

Just saw an article saying Tom McDonald has conceded more goals to a direct opponent then any other player in the league since 2013.

Guy needs a run in the twos to learn some accountability and to stop harping on to the media about how his one of the games premier backmen

There's been a lot of crap on this thread, but this is pretty high up there. Do you actually use your brain or walk around in neutral all day?

[titan_uranus 24,974]

8 minutes ago, olisik said:

Just saw an article saying Tom McDonald has conceded more goals to a direct opponent then any other player in the league since 2013.

Guy needs a run in the twos to learn some accountability and to stop harping on to the media about how his one of the games premier backmen

Please provide evidence of this.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

2 minutes ago, olisik said:

Just saw an article saying Tom McDonald has conceded more goals to a direct opponent then any other player in the league since 2013.

Didn't help that he would also have been under more pressure than most other opposition key defenders during some of those years.

However I do believe the gap between his best and worst is far too great and when I look at our key defender stocks, I see that we don't possess quality there. Tom does great things and awful things. 

The best defenders in the league are far more consistent in their performances.

[olisik 4,060]

2 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Please provide evidence of this.

http://m.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-03-16/mcdonald-around-mark-for-top-defenders

[Dr. Gonzo 24,187]

11 hours ago, bing181 said:

JKH laid more tackles in a half of footy than Kent has laid all year.

That's great. But he can't take a chest mark, can't kick a goal and can't keep his feet. He's VFL at best. Kent would've been dangerous around the fall of the ball last night and could've jagged a couple of goals that may have been the difference

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

9 hours ago, A F said:

I actually found the dinky little short kicks inside forward 50 to be far more annoying than our over handballing. At least, our handball usually resulted in an attacking foray or at the very least another stoppage. We were too cute with the wet ball, when we should have kept things simple inside 50. 

Because our defenders don't yet trust each other. They need to play more footy together.

These stats on our core mid-field vs the Tigers are telling IMO as we won most other stats apart from hit outs on the night till 3/4 time......

'Kicks to Handballs Ratio'.........

Tigers 1.55 , kicks to every handball

Demons 1.08 , nearly one for one

Handball happy players in the mid field for the Demons (eg., significantly less than 1 to 1) ...

Demons

1. Clarry  0.33 (kicks to handballs ratio)

2. Jones 0.41

3. Viney 0.44

4. Tyson 0.60

vs The Tigers Mid Field (and a few mid/forwards thrown in)

1. Prestia 0.82 (only mid field offender significantly under 1 to 1)

2. Lambert 1.0 (Mid/Forward)

3. Caddy 1.1

4. Castagna 1.20

5. Butler 2.0

5. Dusty 2.2 (mid/forward)

The above extreme ratios from our mid field (in the wet) results in not enough meters gained for the energy/output around the pill. With such over use in wet weather you are bound to have far too many turnovers, especially in more dangerous parts of the ground. Allows the opposition to get the ball into their forward 50 quickly without the opportunity to get enough numbers back whilst not taking our opportunities to kick quickly inside 50 and do the same for our forwards often enough when the opportunity arises!!

I can see your point AF and not disagreeing but i think our lack of skills from many when kicking and/or lack of confidence in kicking, resulted in too much handball which in many cases got us no where as there were not enough "skilled" one grab outside runners to receive cleanly and get the ball i50 quickly. So many attempted receives were dropped in the wet and fumbled. I understand wet weather is hard to gather but that's why you go with direct longer kicks to dangerous spots.

Modern day footy is all about transitioning and getting the footy as quickly as possible into your forward 50 to give you forwards a decent chance at a one on one without allowing the opposition the chance to get too many numbers back. We stuff ourselves here. Our mid field started the hand ball rot and continued it.....all night long. We also seemed to have too many throwing themselves at the ball too often and not enough keeping their feet on the outside for the spill and spread.

We are our own worst enemy and i would hate to be playing a key forward role right now with the MFC. Watts is also about the only player capable of lowering the eyes and hitting targets on a consistent basis right now coming i50. The rest get bogged down too close to the inner stoppage too often with over use of handball when a clean quick kick inside 50 or HF (when possible) would be more damaging, especially in wet conditions.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Rusty Nails

[Webber 10,454]

3 minutes ago, FlashInThePan said:

God I get tired of the TMac bashing. He did not plough into a guys head. They were belting after the ball and the  guy ducked to pick it up. He is, in general,  a great one on one player. I thought his game last night was really good and balanced. Even his disposal was fantastic. No one wins every marking contest, as a defender the dice are always stacked against you since the ball is being delivered by the opposition to their own advantage. 

Everyone loves to bag KPDs, it was the same with frawley. Any mistake deep in defence can be catastrophic and draw attention to something that would be no big deal in the forward line. Without TMac we would be in a world of pain.

Our defence needs a chance to settle and gel. Having Hibberd and Frost back there is looking really good. They need a chance to get that intuitive feel for where the other will go. 

TMac has seriously improved both his decision making and disposal this year. He's much quicker in assessing risky options and shifting to handball instead of kicking, selling a dummy, and avoiding being smothered. He backs himself to mark, halves contests he shouldn't have any right to, and frankly has become a mountain down back. That he is one of the first five players picked each week, and for good reason, will continue to evade the whingers on here who can't see past their historical bias. The boy is a gun. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,187]

11 hours ago, Pates said:

I actually thought JKH didn't disgrace himself, for me he earned another go on the merry go round. 

You must have watched a different game to me.

[deelete my account 1,194]

11 minutes ago, A F said:

Rubbish. If he gets called for throwing 1 or 2 times a game and gets away with it 6 or 7 times, I'm happy for him to keep doing it. Have you watched the Bulldogs play? Or Sam Mitchell? Or Joel Selwood? The kid is a star and the only knock on his game at the moment is his ability to hit the scoreboard. If he can do that he'll be a superstar.

I'm not even convinced he is doing it intentionally. One of the calls last night was because he tried to pick it up with one hand in the wet weather and it just scooped up into the air because of how slippery it was. Usually he'd scoop it up and get a hand onto it and release in one action. 
 

Edited April 25, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[Adam The God 30,126]

5 minutes ago, DominatrixTyson said:

I'm not even convinced he is doing it intentionally. One of the calls last night was because he tried to pick it up with one hand in the wet weather and it just scooped up into the air because of how slippery it was. Usually he'd scoop it up and get a hand onto it one action

Yep, agreed.

[titan_uranus 24,974]

8 minutes ago, olisik said:

http://m.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-03-16/mcdonald-around-mark-for-top-defenders

"I think I'm around the mark, but maybe not in front of them [Talia, Rance, Tarrant]".

You have a problem with him saying that?

[dazzledavey36 54,282]

I know we talk about the what if's but you chuck in a fully fit Gawn, Lewis, Vandenberg, Kent into that line up last night and its a 30+ point win to us. Pretty simple. They only had Vlaustin and Griffiths as their only outs. I'm also glad we stayed right away from Prestia.. he was horrendous.

Btw my family travelled down to watch the game andthey bumped into none other then Jeff Farmer ?

 

[olisik 4,060]

5 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

"I think I'm around the mark, but maybe not in front of them [Talia, Rance, Tarrant]".

You have a problem with him saying that?

When he has conceded more goals then any other backmen including 6 last night then yes, yes I do.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,187]

10 hours ago, ding said:

lol yeah we were awesome.

Finals here we come. 

I question everything when we lose, especially against a list like Richmond.

Enjoy the loss bud, there are plenty more to come.

You've got no idea. Please explain how the team played without heart. We were manic for 3/4s then ran out of legs.

[titan_uranus 24,974]

7 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

2-0 with Hogan and Lewis in the side

0-3 without them

Hogan played last night.

5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I know we talk about the what if's but you chuck in a fully fit Gawn, Lewis, Vandenberg, Kent into that line up last night and its a 30+ point win to us. Pretty simple. They only had Vlaustin and Griffiths as their only outs. I'm also glad we stayed right away from Prestia.. he was horrendous.

Btw my family travelled down to watch the game andthey bumped into none other then Jeff Farmer ?

Are Vlaustin or Griffiths even best 22 for Richmond at this point? Certainly, if so, they'd be bottom 6 players. Shane Edwards was missing though.

Anyway, not the point, we should have won last night regardless of the players missing and even taking into account the injuries on the night. It all came down to the first quarter.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,383]

2 hours ago, Demon77 said:

Never have I been prouder to support the MFC than last night. Their effort was unbelievable. Richmond knew of our situation with the men down by constantly forcing the play to the southern stand side for majority of the last quarter hence limiting what was left of our rotations even more. I watched Watts pace the boundary for 5 minutes trying to get on. 

Hunt's 100 metre sprint to provide support/block for Harmes on that run was amazing. It didn't get us the 4 points but it gives me belief of where this club is heading. Not even a quarter of the way into the season and we have used almost 3 quarters of our list through rotten luck and sheer stupidity. 

I will never give up on this club and I'm certain the players won't either, there's plenty left to salvage.

 

 

Great comments mate. A true Demon through and through. I'm with you all the way.

[What 18,810]

2 hours ago, Demon77 said:

Never have I been prouder to support the MFC than last night. Their effort was unbelievable. Richmond knew of our situation with the men down by constantly forcing the play to the southern stand side for majority of the last quarter hence limiting what was left of our rotations even more. I watched Watts pace the boundary for 5 minutes trying to get on. 

Hunt's 100 metre sprint to provide support/block for Harmes on that run was amazing. It didn't get us the 4 points but it gives me belief of where this club is heading. Not even a quarter of the way into the season and we have used almost 3 quarters of our list through rotten luck and sheer stupidity. 

I will never give up on this club and I'm certain the players won't either, there's plenty left to salvage.

 

Agreed.  And we are a better side than Richmond, no question.

They are officially the worst 5-0 team in history.

 

[Wizza 170]

Forgot to mention, that shepherd from Jayden Hunt in the last quarter was amazing and speaks volumes of the type of player he his. Just unfortunate Garlett fluffed the kick at such a crucial point in the game.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

6 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Agreed.  And we are a better side than Richmond, no question.

They are officially the worst 5-0 team in history.

 

Kangaroos 2016?

[Bobby McKenzie 2,383]

In the last quarter Jeff Garlett had a run and passed to Hogan without success. He had plenty of clear space ahead of him so I wonder if he should have gone another 15 metres and had a shot himself.It would have given us a one goal lead and real hope. What do others think?