Is the captaincy weighing on him? I find it difficult to see how it's not at least a contributing factor. 

This decision is 100% on Simon Goodwin so if it hurts jack it hurts him

He has been horrendous all year, even in the JLT he was average. His intensity is completely gone. His accelation out of packs is completely gone. His strength to hold tackles is completely gone. He's not the same player who won the bluey last year. Giving him the captaincy was obviously a poor decision but it can't be undone now. If he didn't have the C next to his name you'd suggest a run in the twos would be good for him, he's just that ineffective at the moment.

His form is certainly a great concern 

Is he carrying an injury?

Causation vs correlation? 

What evidence? 

I wouldn't drop him to the 2's, i'd rest him for a couple of weeks.

Just now, dino rover said:

Causation vs correlation? 

What evidence? 

I don't see the same attacking flair, I see a guy who is more worried about his team mates and to me that is a sign of the captaincy having an impact. 

I think it was a decision that didn't need to be made and was Simon Goodwin trying to show the Paul roos era had ended and his had begun. 

I think it is probably only a factor amoungst factors but it's still goodys call so he has to wear the heat for it.

Oliver is taking the ball at the closet drop. He is a smart thinker and ahead of most of our mids. Kind of leaves Viney in an awkward position. He was never the cleanest ball getter - but he would extract it anyway (he simply had to, and was better than others). Now Oliver is getting that inside ball. Viney could be second cab off the ranks - but others are also in line, plus, Viney is wasteful. Based on this years form I think Jack Viney is going to have to make some adjustments. He is no longer first cab off the ranks to shark the tap, he is also not second cab off the ranks. But I don't write Viney off at all because historically he has shown us that he can rectify and improve upon his weaknesses. Viney used to be bull at a gate, then he learned to harness his energy. Good players adapt. Viney should be able to adapt, but at present I think he is probably trying to work out how he needs to adapt. Many of our players are in this position IMO. We are a wasteful football club, and we need to be more effective.

8 minutes ago, dino rover said:

Causation vs correlation? 

What evidence? 

I think that's always going to be the issue.  Captains have to perform, when they don't, questions are asked. That's why it is given to senior, experienced and consistent performers.

Captaincy or not, he is out of form and because of his new position at the club, the spotlight burns brighter on him.

 

Goodwin has put him in a difficult position. 

2 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

Oliver is taking the ball at the closet drop. He is a smart thinker and ahead of most of our mids. Kind of leaves Viney in an awkward position. He was never the cleanest ball getter - but he would extract it anyway (he simply had to, and was better than others). Now Oliver is getting that inside ball. Viney could be second cab off the ranks - but others are also in line, plus, Viney is wasteful. Based on this years form I think Jack Viney is going to have to make some adjustments. He is no longer first cab off the ranks to shark the tap, he is also not second cab off the ranks. But I don't rate Viney off at all because historically he has shown us that he can rectify and improve upon his weaknesses. Viney used to be bull at a gate, then he learned to harness his energy. Good players adapt. Viney should be able to adapt, but at present I think he is probably trying to work out how he needs to adapt. Many of our players are in this position IMO. We are a wasteful football club, and we need to be more effective.

Very good summary KDA.  Therein is exactly why it was too early to make him co-cap.  His game and position in the team is still evolving.  He is still a young, inexperienced player B&F notwithstanding.   His obvious strengths (aggression aside) are not so obvious anymore.  Goodwin should have waited to settle the team and the game plan and get a few runs on the board.  There were other ways to stamp his mark on the team.

It is too late to turn back the clock on co-cap: to demoralising and too much egg-on-face to change it back.

Send him in for a full-body scan. He's probably carrying multiple fractures and hemorrhaging internal organs that he doesn't know about.

When you put a 21 year old as a captain and expect him to lead 44 blokes during the week and 22 on game day then of course he he is going to feel great expectation and pressure.

The thing is the players voted and he wasn't even the players choice. Goodwin came in and gave him the captaincy.

Said it at the time it was a very poor decision by the club. We should have learnt from past mistakes with Grimes and Trengove but obviously not. 

Still shaking my head at this..

Just now, dazzledavey36 said:

When you put a 21 year old as a captain and expect him to lead 44 blokes during the week and 22 on game day then of course he he is going to feel great expectation and pressure.

The thing is the players voted and he wasn't even the players choice. Goodwin came in and gave him the captaincy.

Said it at the time it was a very poor decision by the club. We should have learnt from past mistakes with Grimes and Trengove but obviously not. 

Still shaking my head at this..

Yup it was Goodwin trying to make his mark. 

We need jack to be an elite player, we have Jones and Lewis to lead the club 

I will judge the decision on this season's body of work.

Some people need to grow into the captaincy. 

Though I too will admit his form has been patchy to say the least.

Just now, Lucifer's Hero said:

Very good summary KDA.  Therein is exactly why it was too early to make him co-cap.  His game and position in the team is still evolving.  He is still a young, inexperienced player B&F notwithstanding.   His obvious strengths (aggression aside) are not so obvious anymore.  Goodwin should have waited to settle the team and the game plan and get a few runs on the board.  There were other ways to stamp his mark on the team.

It is too late to turn back the clock on co-cap: to demoralising and too much egg-on-face to change it back.

I don't disagree with that. But the fact (I think it is fact) that Viney has shown over the years that he can harness his aggression, and improve his game - I think he is ok as co-captain. I do understand the knock against Goodwin appointing him because maybe it was a little early and perhaps undeserved? But I don't think it is a replica of Trengove and Grimes. I don't think either of those guys were ready. I actually made a thread on that at the time (that Jones should've been appointed). At present I don't think we have a leadership problem, I think we have an effectiveness problem. We are an ineffective football club. You can be well led and still be ineffective. I don't see a real problem with Viney as captain though (at least not to the extent of Trengove/Grimes - who weren't leaders from the get go). But I see a problem with Viney's game at the moment. He needs to make some adjustments. If he doesn't make some adjustments then being captain will be irrelevant because he may be borderline to even get a game.

Would have had the match winning goal if we weren't a bunch of dumb [censored].

If Viney didn't think he was ready, then I'm sure he could have knocked it back.  Goodwin wouldn't spring it on him and make him captain without consultation.  It's a two way street.

Plus I still think he is carrying an injury from pre-season.  He is certainly not the Jack Viney of the last two years.

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

If Viney didn't think he was ready, then I'm sure he could have knocked it back.  Goodwin wouldn't spring it on him and make him captain without consultation.  It's a two way street.

Plus I still think he is carrying an injury from pre-season.  He is certainly not the Jack Viney of the last two years.

Also, if Goodwin thinks it's playing a part in his form, he could easily reduce some of the added responsibilities without making a big fuss about it.

There's something not right, Freo were walking out of a couple of his tackles today, his power is gone.

He's got to be injured in some way.

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

If Viney didn't think he was ready, then I'm sure he could have knocked it back.  Goodwin wouldn't spring it on him and make him captain without consultation.  It's a two way street.

Plus I still think he is carrying an injury from pre-season.  He is certainly not the Jack Viney of the last two years.

Goodwin didn't consult our reigning captain so what on earth make you think he consulted Viney. 

Anyway, who would knock it back - not a kid who truly bleeds red and blue and dreamed of captaining the club.  Goodwin is the coach and the man - it was his call; it is not his job to ask a kid what he thinks and go with it.

Just now, Lucifer's Hero said:

Goodwin didn't consult our reigning captain so what on earth make you think he consulted Viney. 

Anyway, who would knock it back - not a kid who truly bleeds red and blue and dreamed of captaining the club.  Goodwin is the coach and the man - it was his call; it is not his job to ask a kid what he thinks and go with it.

Couldn't be true, surely?

35 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

He has been horrendous all year, even in the JLT he was average. His intensity is completely gone. His accelation out of packs is completely gone. His strength to hold tackles is completely gone. He's not the same player who won the bluey last year. Giving him the captaincy was obviously a poor decision but it can't be undone now. If he didn't have the C next to his name you'd suggest a run in the twos would be good for him, he's just that ineffective at the moment.

He has been underwhelming in pretty much all of those aspects of the game, except for tackling. He's averaging over 6 a game, which is very good. Maybe Goodwin and co are using him in a more defensive role.

Needs to lift his game though for sure.

8 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Would have had the match winning goal if we weren't a bunch of dumb [censored].

Agree. So the players' have not only [censored] themselves over, they have robbed poor Jack of gaining some much needed confidence.

Like young players dlanders panic at moments of adversity

A balanced view is that he is one player

I dont know what his roles have been what his opponents have done or what his coaches view is

I doubt captaincy is some cross he carries

Im as gutted as the rest of you just struggling to maintain some perspective

 

My concern is that he is having NO impact on the game. I don't think it is captaincy but limitations in his game right now, such as no right side or accuracy with his left foot and he was never quick. Others in the midfield have passed him by with Oliver being the extractor and when Trac moves into the midfield he will be squeezed out more. He needs to adapt and lift.

 

Does it matter whether it's the captaincy or not?

He's really, really out of form.

Whatever it is, it has to be fixed.