All you idiots calling for Bernie to be dropped probably had your heads up his ass after rd 1 yeah? And had he taken a bounce and kicked a goal from 50 yesterday to win you still would.. 

12 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Him in the backline doesn't fit at all. Everyone knows that, for someone with good foot skills he just turns it over far too easily.

He is a much better forward and in  the midfield and that's where he belongs.  In the past two games when we have had plenty of ball in the forwardline without being able to put it on the board, he could have made a big difference.

He is far from cooked though.

8 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

As I've said in other threads, that sprayed inside 50 kick by Vince with less than a min to go ....

... was kicked directly to its intended recipient, Neal-Bullen. Who, incidentally, ended up with it, and got it along the boundary to Viney.

15 hours ago, Abe said:

He tries to be to cute at times but he isn't a bad player and easily in the best 10 players on our list

I agree with you.

My only issue with Bernie is the spot he is playing. I'm sure he isn't selecting himself as a back flanker. He's not a natural backman at all and I am sure he would be as frustrated with his own performance as much as the rest of us.

Unfortunately in the meantime with no other players available he needs to play a role that simply doesn't suit him 

To say he's finished however is ridiculous. If he's played back in the guts he would be more damaging (imo) than all our mids other than Jones and Oliver. 

 

 

10 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

As I've said in other threads, that sprayed inside 50 kick by Vince with less than a min to go was simply dumb football. Made no attempt to spot up a teammate. Could've sealed the game. That will be the no 1 blooper on his tapes this week. For an experienced veteran in a team desperate for leadership and a cool head, that to me says he's near the end.

Loved his efforts in the year he won the Bluey, but I'm looking forward to a time when he cannot get a game. Leg speed going, decision making slipping... the end not far away.

I want to see Bernie finish his career up forward. Defence is to critical now 

16 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

How is it overreacting when majority on here are agreeing with me bar you? Your seriously delusional in the same form as Saty with the way you carry on.

Vince has been cooked since about the 2nd half of last year. He is a shadow of his former self.

Come off it! He was outstanding in game 1 v St Kilda

Just now, Farmer said:

Come off it! He was outstanding in game 1 v St Kilda

So 1 good game out of about the last 12.

Some are easily satisfied.

You need to remember Bernie's bad game comes on the back of a very poor finish to the 2016 season.  The experiment of him in defence is kaput.

3 hours ago, bing181 said:

... was kicked directly to its intended recipient, Neal-Bullen. Who, incidentally, ended up with it, and got it along the boundary to Viney.

Except that ANB wasn't expecting it or calling for it and it bounced a few metres in front of him. 

It was a poor kick and very reckless given the state of the game.  

Bernie is a mid or forward not a backman any more.  

His positioning at the last freo goal was stupid.   

He had to be defensive side of the pack, dumb. 

It seems as though a few here have never had a bad day...ever. Well done - you're amazing!

Not many would disagree with the fact Bernie wasn't at his best in the last few minutes and it's easy to concentrate on that at the expense of other team issues.  But we lost not because Bernie missed a kick in the last few minutes, we lost because the whole team failed to compete in the third quarter.  I think the call that Bernie is finished is premature but who knows, Dazzle might be right or he might put this down as more humble pie like his calls on Hunt and Salem.  Dazzle is very fond of humble pie. 

There is no doubt we concentrate on players who get the ball and make mistakes but what about Neville Jetta.  His games last week and this week were pretty ordinary.  Bernie had more contested possessions this week than Jetts has had in two weeks.  The opposition smalls have had a picnic against us two weeks in a row.  Melksham has been ordinary all year  but he's not being dissected and analysed like Bernie because he was so poor, and, like Jetts, he couldn't get the ball and therefore didn't "make mistakes".  Red says Vince's positioning when Freo scored their last goal was stupid.  He blamed Bernie, not Melksham or Jetts (or any number of other players).  Heaven knows why but perhaps he knows more than me and knows it was Bernie who should have been behind the ball.  Frankly I think like all of us he's just bitterly disappointed and at the moment Vince is being made the scapegoat.

I'm no expert on what the stats mean and I know people with views disregard stats when they work against them and use them to support arguments but Vince had 25 possessions, 9 contested and 10 intercept possessions.  He had 2 clangers.  Face value that's a pretty good game.

McDonald, who I reckon had an absolute stinker, had 7 clangers and missed a simple mark resulting in a goal in the third.  But we're not blaming McDonald.  Viney, ANB, Watts and Weed missed simple shots but no, we're blaming Bernie because his mistake was in the last minute or so.

I'm happy to back Bernie in, I don't need a specific scapegoat because I reckon 22 players went missing in the third quarter and another two have gone missing for two games each so it's a list issue not a specific player issue. 

Not sure which the more ordinary, our game or this thread. Just as many wrong bombs, poor passes and incorrect decisions and blaming.

In simple terms we aren't as good as we might have liked to think.

Leadership/stewardship is lacking.

Too often playing like chooks !!!

Some errors made by fd just have to be worn now.

Should have learnt much from Cats game. Obviously didn't. Again much to learn from yesterday.

As fas as Bernie....get him forward or just tagging.

Far from finished....far from accomplished this season. 

He's not alone 

11 hours ago, Je Roos Salem said:

He did the exact same thing in the Gold Coast game last year (Lucky it didn't cost us the victory). I don't get why he's playing so deep in defence, he can't really shut a man down, he's pretty much there to play loose man, but he can't even get that many possessions. 

He's also not a particularly good user over short distances. He's actually pretty hit and miss. He can make them occasionally, but more often than not he chooses the wrong time to attempt the execution.

And he's played there because he has no other position anymore.

I don't want him in the guts doing his Brent Moloney impersonation as he bombs it blindly forward out of the middle.

13 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Of course he'll stay down back due to injuries. But once those guys get back from injuries then where does that leave Bernie? up forward? Surely not..

I don't see how me saying he won't be on the list next year due to poor form is stupid. 32 next year with fresh recruits and more further development of Wagner and Smith. 

And i don't agree with you about wanting to win games instead of blooding youth. Otherwise Weidemen and Hannan wouldn't be playing at all. Goody will reward whoever is in good form in the VFL.

Since there isn't room for him in the midfield anymore, he'll do one of three things. HF with those long bombs. HB and designated kickout guy with Salem. And against certain players he gets a job, Dangerfield style. He's had a bad couple of weeks disposal wise (no surprise given hes had surgery), but people are having a laugh saying he's a poor kick. He's a prodigious kick, always has been.

It's stupid because you've avoided now, how many times, 3-4, giving any mention of the BOG performance week 1. And what fresh recruits? Melksham? The backline is far from settled. We're two defenders down. Bernie is best 22 easily. Assuming he's fit. Which I don't think he is. Viney either.

You don't have to agree. We ARE trying to win games. We're 2-2, 4 games into a season. Every fan believes we can make finals, and before the Freo game most pundits had us as probable to make finals despite a loss to the Cats. Weideman played because we had no other KP forwards ready to go (Smith isn't an AFL footballer). Hannan played because he's not youth. He's mature age. And yes, he'll reward good form in the VFL. That's what you do when you're trying to win games.

Wow, people really are going with this Bernie was BOG in round 1 tripe aren't they? Oliver and Jones were so far ahead of anyone that day it's not funny. Bernie managed a couple of beautiful kick outs and a couple of mind-boggling clangers. But keep holding onto to the theory that Vince still has it as a backman.

11 minutes ago, A F said:

Wow, people really are going with this Bernie was BOG in round 1 tripe aren't they? Oliver and Jones were so far ahead of anyone that day it's not funny. Bernie managed a couple of beautiful kick outs and a couple of mind-boggling clangers. But keep holding onto to the theory that Vince still has it as a backman.

Lewis Jones Oliver Jetta and Hogan were the best for me round 1. He played well but i thought these guys were the clear standout for me.

56 minutes ago, A F said:

Wow, people really are going with this Bernie was BOG in round 1 tripe aren't they? Oliver and Jones were so far ahead of anyone that day it's not funny. Bernie managed a couple of beautiful kick outs and a couple of mind-boggling clangers. But keep holding onto to the theory that Vince still has it as a backman.

Let's just accept he was very good.  Wasn't best on ground but was a very valuable member of the team and played a key role in the defensive half.

Happy?

1 hour ago, A F said:

Wow, people really are going with this Bernie was BOG in round 1 tripe aren't they? Oliver and Jones were so far ahead of anyone that day it's not funny. Bernie managed a couple of beautiful kick outs and a couple of mind-boggling clangers. But keep holding onto to the theory that Vince still has it as a backman.

In the AFLCA, Bernie was equal 2nd with Max on 5 votes, behind Clarrie on 9. It's fair to say he was very good.

He made some crucial errors yesterday but he wasn't Robinson Crusoe there.

11 hours ago, A F said:

He's also not a particularly good user over short distances. He's actually pretty hit and miss. He can make them occasionally, but more often than not he chooses the wrong time to attempt the execution.

And he's played there because he has no other position anymore.

I don't want him in the guts doing his Brent Moloney impersonation as he bombs it blindly forward out of the middle.

Our defence is our weak point at the moment and the priority should be to run it out, or bomb it out of there as soon as possible to get to our strong mids/half forward line, we always put teammates under pressure with terrible disposal inside defensive 50

15 hours ago, deeko said:

My only issue with Bernie is the spot he is playing. I'm sure he isn't selecting himself as a back flanker. He's not a natural backman at all and I am sure he would be as frustrated with his own performance as much as the rest of us.

Unfortunately in the meantime with no other players available he needs to play a role that simply doesn't suit him 

To say he's finished however is ridiculous. If he's played back in the guts he would be more damaging (imo) than all our mids other than Jones and Oliver. 

 

 

Agree. He can be useful on a wing or as a tagger too. Tyson and Oliver look like our prime midfielders right now which is a blessing given there's still Jones and Viney too (and Lewis to come back). It's a hard problem to solve though because our midfield's packed and we don't have much talent in defence

31 minutes ago, Je Roos Salem said:

Our defence is our weak point at the moment and the priority should be to run it out, or bomb it out of there as soon as possible to get to our strong mids/half forward line, we always put teammates under pressure with terrible disposal inside defensive 50

I think it's a defensive system that requires quick ball movement, so I agree to an extent, mate. I think we have to be looking for the switch or the line-breaking run. The Freo situation was different from most weeks though. It was Sandilands we'd be kicking to if we went up the line, with no Gawn or Hogan to aim at. So it's a tough one. Either, you chip it around or you try and get it as long as possible and expect Sandilands to mark it. If he doesn't, you have to be sweating on him and other Freo players on the outside and at ground level, to ensure they don't get a clean transition happening. 

The only time we should be attempting short passes in our defensive 50 in a situation where we hold a slender lead with a couple of minutes to go, is if the short pass is a clear option. It's Under 9's stuff really. The equivalent of "don't kick across goal unless a clear option is available". Vince's short dinky kicks are rarely on and shouldn't be turned to when we are trying to hold onto a lead at the death - also see his dinky little kick that resulted in the shot on the siren against the Suns in 2016.

I'd prefer in this situation that we bomb as long as possible and get Hannan or Hunt to jump on Sandilands' shoulders to bring the ball to the ground and swarm him from there. If he takes the mark, you set up defensively up the ground and ensure any runners don't receive a Sandilands handball - every side knows Sandilands looks for the handball at every opportunity. Vince has to know better than this dinky option and we have to plan better than this as a coaching group.

16 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

So 1 good game out of about the last 12.

Some are easily satisfied.

Negative twits like you make it impossible to have rational conservations. You just want to blame individuals, it's a [censored] team effort [censored]

It's public knowledge Bernie is playing hurt. His toe is still bothering him. Give him a few weeks to get right and you will all fall in love with him again.

He is still cemented in our best 22

Now let me get this right...this thread is about a bloke who had toe surgery last week after his foot was stomped on, right?