Welcome to Demonland: Jake Lever

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Grand New Flag said:

Comments from player agent Paul Conner:

"He (Lever) comes home citing family concerns and lands at Melbourne. They become the 2018 premiership favorite,” he predicted.

 

Nope, Jon Ralph said that.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/08/23/ralphys-bombshell-trade-predictions/

[McQueen 17,864]

1 minute ago, Uncle Fester said:

Huh? Can we get a link to that please

Those comment came from Jon Ralph.

Above poster clearly mixed up I'd hope.

[Fat Tony 5,231]

16 minutes ago, Grand New Flag said:

Comments from player agent Paul Conner:

"He (Lever) comes home citing family concerns and lands at Melbourne. They become the 2018 premiership favorite,” he predicted.

 

That's the John Ralph quote.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

Apologies it was Jon Ralph's prediction.

 

[Uncle Fester 2,848]

Bloody hell. Do you hide under a rock until this time of year, just to come out and throw sand into the machine? Seriously. Lift your game.

[Thrice 216]

24 minutes ago, Grand New Flag said:

Comments from player agent Paul Conner:

"He (Lever) comes home citing family concerns and lands at Melbourne. They become the 2018 premiership favorite,” he predicted.

 

I respect that you have some cachet as an 'inside source', so to clarify for everyone: That is verbatim the Jon Ralph quote from the article posted by Abe yesterday.

 

Edited August 23, 2017 by Thrice

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,745]

I think the trade could go something like:

We give up: 1st Round pick & Frost

Get: Lever & 3rd round pick

[pineapple dee 2,892]

Has Frost ever played a role other than as a defender ?? Does he have the skillset to go to the midfield or as  a linkman streaming through the wing. I just don't think we should be too ready to dispense with  him yet.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

What I can confirm is only that we are pursuing Lever aggressively and Lever has indicated he may be interested in joining the Dees.  

This is nothing more than what is out there in the media.

Whether it happens, what the size and length of the contract being discussed and what the potential trade I have no idea. I am sure Adelaide will go all out to keep him, and we are also competing with other clubs.  

However, at this stage we are the clear favorites.  A finals win or two will really help. Increase likelihood of Lever choosing Dees and increase value of our players.  You would think a best 22 player or highly rated junior will likely be traded as part of deal.

[rjay 24,939]

12 minutes ago, pineapple dee said:

Has Frost ever played a role other than as a defender ?? Does he have the skillset to go to the midfield or as  a linkman streaming through the wing. I just don't think we should be too ready to dispense with  him yet.

Failed forward/ruck...doesn't have the football smarts to play anywhere else but as a defender.

An athlete, not  footballer.

[Damo 3,357]

Just now, Grand New Flag said:

What I can confirm is only that we are pursuing Lever aggressively and Lever has indicated he may be interested in joining the Dees.  

This is nothing more than what is out there in the media.

Whether it happens, what the size and length of the contract being discussed and what the potential trade I have no idea. I am sure Adelaide will go all out to keep him, and we are also competing with other clubs.  

However, at this stage we are the clear favorites.  A finals win or two will really help. Increase likelihood of Lever choosing Dees and increase value of our players.  You would think a best 22 player or highly rated junior will likely be traded as part of deal.

Thanks Eric

[old55 23,609]

I don't think KPB is a our biggest need but evidence points to the FD think it is and are very keen on Lever.

If that's true then there's many people in this thread struggling to stitch the logic together.

If the FD think that we need a KPB that means they think the current set aren't quite good enough.

Therefore some are tradeable.

Oscar is in the team, Frost is out.

Frost is tradeable.

I like Frost - his size and speed is rare and they are great attributes for zone defence, but the logic is there.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Fifty-5

[McQueen 17,864]

Considering Frost wanted to return to Melbourne and I can recall the commentary by himself about how good it was to be back in Vic, I would be very surprised to see him move to Adelaide.

That said, I reckon he'll move to another Vic based club if Lever comes to us and still ultimately be part of the trade.

 

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

11 minutes ago, Grand New Flag said:

What I can confirm is only that we are pursuing Lever aggressively and Lever has indicated he may be interested in joining the Dees.  

This is nothing more than what is out there in the media.

Whether it happens, what the size and length of the contract being discussed and what the potential trade I have no idea. I am sure Adelaide will go all out to keep him, and we are also competing with other clubs.  

However, at this stage we are the clear favorites.  A finals win or two will really help. Increase likelihood of Lever choosing Dees and increase value of our players.  You would think a best 22 player or highly rated junior will likely be traded as part of deal.

[daisycutter 29,616]

58 minutes ago, Grand New Flag said:

Comments from player agent Paul Conner:

"He (Lever) comes home citing family concerns and lands at Melbourne. They become the 2018 premiership favorite,” he predicted.

 

thought that was ralph <redundant>

Edited August 23, 2017 by daisycutter

[layzie 33,814]

It was Ralph 

[Fat Tony 5,231]

28 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I don't think KPB is a our biggest need but evidence points to the FD think it is and are very keen on Lever.

If that's true then there's many people in this thread struggling to stitch the logic together.

If the FD think that we need a KPB that means they think the current set aren't quite good enough.

Therefore some are tradeable.

Oscar is in the team, Frost is out.

Frost is tradeable.

I like Frost - his size and speed is rare and they are great attributes for zone defence, but the logic is there.

I like Frost. His closing speed and length make him a valuable defender and his athleticism means he can break the game open when we have the ball. He had a bad month with his skills and that is why he is out of the team now. But I also think he has suffered from us playing in difficult conditions in Darwin, Hobart and Canberra.

I also am not of the view that we cannot play all three of Oscar, TMac and Frost in the backline. Defensively I think they are athletic enough to play on smaller opponents, particularly in a zone set up. I think we lose a bit of skill down back, but we could shift Hunt up to a wing to compensate. I also think Oscar's kicking and decision making is underrated by being Tom's brother. I see his issues being more intensity and strength related.

This is not to say we should not go for Lever, because he is obviously a young gun. But he is definitely not a need IMO and I am unsure if giving up Frost and high picks is a huge win.

[old55 23,609]

3 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I like Frost. His closing speed and length make him a valuable defender and his athleticism means he can break the game open when we have the ball. He had a bad month with his skills and that is why he is out of the team now. But I also think he has suffered from us playing in difficult conditions in Darwin, Hobart and Canberra.

I also am not of the view that we cannot play all three of Oscar, TMac and Frost in the backline. Defensively I think they are athletic enough to play on smaller opponents, particularly in a zone set up. I think we lose a bit of skill down back, but we could shift Hunt up to a wing to compensate. I also think Oscar's kicking and decision making is underrated by being Tom's brother. I see his issues being more intensity and strength related.

This is not to say we should not go for Lever, because he is obviously a young gun. But he is definitely not a need IMO and I am unsure if giving up Frost and high picks is a huge win.

I don't think we want all 3 in the back-line together - when Frost became available for selection earlier in the year Oscar went out.  Then TMac went into the ruck/fwd and Oscar and Frost were together back.  Now Pedo has hit form, TMac has gone back and Frost is out.  I don't see a balanced set up with all 3 in.

Axis of Bob posted a comparison of developing tall backs earlier in the year  which showed that Oscar is well advanced - many posters can only see what's right in front of their nose and have little ability to project potential development.  

I agree that TMac, OMac, Frost is a reasonable set-up and that's why I don't see KPB as a priority, but clearly the FD do and if so then with limited list size and resources we don't want to be over-invested in this area and so Frost is tradeable.

It will be fascinating to see how the back-line structures if we get Lever - with TMac, OMac, Lever and Hibberd all fit back there?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Again, not here to pot Frost for those who will no doubt believe otherwise.

But a question to those of you who highlight his strengths as a player needs to be asked and then addressed.

Is there any point in having lightening speed, great athleticism if your fundamental football specific skills are average at best?

Yeh Frost has taken some fantastic contest grabs as a defender, but he's also had the same amount of absolute howlers that have turned into opposition scores. Yeh Frost has had some lightening fast line-breaking runs. But he also turns the ball over just as often as he makes those runs.

Why do people ignore this when naming his strengths?

Maybe because the hope for most is that those footy specific skills will improve enough for him to become a consistent contributor as a key backman? We also have hope that Oscar will improve enough to reach a consistent level. And we have Tom McDonald who at over 100 games experience, still struggles to perform consistently as a defender?

Ideally you want high end talent spanning across all lines of your list. Clearly ours is stacked in the midfield and forward line, with little high end talent in our backline and especially our key defensive group.

Frost is as expendable as they come right now for us. We have too many 'ifs' and 'hopes' for our three key defenders. Lever being high end talent would transform our backline, I know everyone agrees with that. But what is the obsession with keeping Frost?

[Fat Tony 5,231]

Just now, Fifty-5 said:

I don't think we want all 3 in the back-line together - when Frost became available for selection earlier in the year Oscar went out.  Then TMac went into the ruck/fwd and Oscar and Frost were together back.  Now Pedo has hit form, TMac has gone back and Frost is out.  I don't see a balanced set up with all 3 in.

Axis of Bob posted a comparison of developing tall backs earlier in the year  which showed that Oscar is well advanced - many posters can only see what's right in front of their nose and have little ability to project potential development.  

I agree that TMac, OMac, Frost is a reasonable set-up and that's why I don't see KPB as a priority, but clearly the FD do and if so then with limited list size and resources we don't want to be over-invested in this area and so Frost is tradeable.

It will be fascinating to see how the back-line structures if we get Lever - with TMac, OMac, Lever and Hibberd all fit back there?

I understand your argument against playing all three, but I feel that it is not cut and dry.

The two issues with playing a tall backline I see are 1) chemistry - particularly knowing when and when not to fly; and 2) ensuring there is enough pace and skill when we have the ball.

The first issue was a big problem against Hawthorn, particularly after McEvoy took a big mark. Everyone wanted to go up to spoil and it ended up costing us the game. Still, I think this problem can resolve itself through all three playing together more often.

The second issue is really a skill issue given the athleticism of TMac, OMac and Frost. Frost and TMac are clearly athletic enough to play on smaller opponents and Oscar played very well on Dickson against the Bulldogs. I agree skill is a problem here, but I also note that the best sides in the competition have big forward lines. Adelaide have Walker, Jenkins, McGovern and Lynch. GWS will possibly go with Cameron, Patton and Lobb. Sydney have Buddy, Reid and Tippett or Sinclair. We need to have a set up to match this.

 

 

[PaulRB 6,372]

2 hours ago, Grand New Flag said:

Comments from player agent Paul Conner:

"He (Lever) comes home citing family concerns and lands at Melbourne. They become the 2018 premiership favorite,” he predicted.

 

Aren't the reigning premiers generally favourited the next year anyway? 

Edited August 24, 2017 by PaulRB

[layzie 33,814]

Haha enjoyed ^^

[Fat Tony 5,231]

24 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Again, not here to pot Frost for those who will no doubt believe otherwise.

But a question to those of you who highlight his strengths as a player needs to be asked and then addressed.

Is there any point in having lightening speed, great athleticism if your fundamental football specific skills are average at best?

Yeh Frost has taken some fantastic contest grabs as a defender, but he's also had the same amount of absolute howlers that have turned into opposition scores. Yeh Frost has had some lightening fast line-breaking runs. But he also turns the ball over just as often as he makes those runs.

Why do people ignore this when naming his strengths?

Maybe because the hope for most is that those footy specific skills will improve enough for him to become a consistent contributor as a key backman? We also have hope that Oscar will improve enough to reach a consistent level. And we have Tom McDonald who at over 100 games experience, still struggles to perform consistently as a defender?

Ideally you want high end talent spanning across all lines of your list. Clearly ours is stacked in the midfield and forward line, with little high end talent in our backline and especially our key defensive group.

Frost is as expendable as they come right now for us. We have too many 'ifs' and 'hopes' for our three key defenders. Lever being high end talent would transform our backline, I know everyone agrees with that. But what is the obsession with keeping Frost?

When did Alex Rance become a star? He also had fundamental skill issues until he was about 23, which is the same age as Frost. Liam Jones took until 26 to come good. Ted Richards is another example of a late bloomer. Jeremy McGovern did not get a game until he was 22. Just because Frost struggles at times with his skills, doesn't mean he won't improve.

[rjay 24,939]

48 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

The second issue is really a skill issue given the athleticism of TMac, OMac and Frost. Frost and TMac are clearly athletic enough to play on smaller opponents and Oscar played very well on Dickson against the Bulldogs. I agree skill is a problem here, but I also note that the best sides in the competition have big forward lines. Adelaide have Walker, Jenkins, McGovern and Lynch. GWS will possibly go with Cameron, Patton and Lobb. Sydney have Buddy, Reid and Tippett or Sinclair. We need to have a set up to match this.

It's not about the match ups 'Fat Tony', it's about the skill level.

We can't afford the 3 with kicking/decision making deficiencies along with Hunt in the same backline.

[Garbo 1,538]

10 minutes ago, rjay said:

It's not about the match ups 'Fat Tony', it's about the skill level.

We can't afford the 3 with kicking/decision making deficiencies along with Hunt in the same backline.

That and none of them are a gorilla to make up for it, unless we are just conceding the opps FF will kick his 4-5 every time.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Garbo