39 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Haven't seen enough to even guess how good the kid might be, but I have a question.

Who is going to mind the Danihers, Browns Hipwoods of the world? 

If Lever is an intercept marking player, who will shut down the skyscrapers?

They're freak athletes and truth is no one can go with them on their day. That's why you get a Lever and have your zone, so he reads the play and gets over to help out. 

Astbury and Rance type set up. 

On 8/19/2017 at 0:22 PM, Redleg said:

Would have thought a fair bit of water has to go under the bridge first:

He has to leave Adelaide.

He has to select us as his new club.

We have to do a deal with the Crows.

All good Sir, no need for you to worry. Club has it all in hand. 

well seeing as how lever has anointed us as his destination club the mods may as well close this thread

.....and start a new "welcome jake lever" thread

Has anyone else heard the rumour that the Crows, Carlton and Melbourne are doing a 3 way trade? Watts to Carlton, Gibbs to Adelaide and Lever to Melbourne. If true what's everyone's opinion on that? I'd personally keep Watts, he's stuck with us through thick and thin over the years and he deserves all the success coming our way.

3 minutes ago, Caligula's Cohort! said:

Has anyone else heard the rumour that the Crows, Carlton and Melbourne are doing a 3 way trade? Watts to Carlton, Gibbs to Adelaide and Lever to Melbourne. If true what's everyone's opinion on that? I'd personally keep Watts, he's stuck with us through thick and thin over the years and he deserves all the success coming our way.

I havnt heard that one. We would be the winners in that trade. Do it! I am sure there would be trade of draft picks also...

6 minutes ago, Caligula's Cohort! said:

Has anyone else heard the rumour that the Crows, Carlton and Melbourne are doing a 3 way trade? Watts to Carlton, Gibbs to Adelaide and Lever to Melbourne. If true what's everyone's opinion on that? I'd personally keep Watts, he's stuck with us through thick and thin over the years and he deserves all the success coming our way.

There would need to be picks involved for that to happen IMHO. Adelaide losing Lever and getting only Gibbs in return is daylight robbery.  Melbourne losing Watts and gaining Lever is also weighted far too heavily in our favour.

1 hour ago, faultydet said:

Haven't seen enough to even guess how good the kid might be, but I have a question.

Who is going to mind the Danihers, Browns Hipwoods of the world? 

If Lever is an intercept marking player, who will shut down the skyscrapers?

Those adversarial days are more or less in the past.  Nowadays you beat teams through a team defence.  If your midfield dominates and pressures the ball carrier, you starve the opposition forwards of quality entries.

26 minutes ago, Deestroy All said:

They're freak athletes and truth is no one can go with them on their day. That's why you get a Lever and have your zone, so he reads the play and gets over to help out. 

Astbury and Rance type set up. 

Yep, the Astbury and Rance set up is the pro type zone set up.

You can't really have gorilla keepers anymore (think Frawley and dunn) as if they are not mobile enough you are one runner down.

The skyscrapers are hard to stop no doubt and if you went man on man you would need a taller player rather then Frawley style man on man player to guard them. But with the zones all teams are playing (some zones are more aggressive) you can't really have a defender running with them all day or else your whole ground zone suffers and you are almost a man down (which is why taggers, with some obvious exceptions, have by in large gone out of style).

The answer - at least at the moment - to stop the power forward like Dixon and the skyscrapers like Danhier that most teams employ is the zone. And it is hard to do and when it goes wrong the skyscrapers and gorillas  have a field day. Look at some of the goals Pedo and Hogan kicked on Sunday. At least four were from marks where the lions zone failed and both players were allowed a free run at the ball. But on other occasions their defensive zone worked really well and they got easy marks down back.

They are a young team and it takes time to get zones right. Moving Tmac back and dropping Salem and Frost was risky as it is impacted on the synergy down back, which is critical for zones in football (and soccer and basketball) to work well. I think some of the Saints second half goals and the lions goals were as a result of the zone breaking down. 

Geelong used Taylor to force Rance to go one on one on him and cut down the damage he usually does with his intercepts. Interestingly Rance, who some consider to be the best defender of the modern era, really struggled one on one and was well beaten by Taylor in the air and the scoreboard. The tigers often send martin really deep knowing generally someone will mark him, which makes it harder for the opposition to set their zone.

Lever would fit perfectly into our zone set up and very much play the Rance role. 

Edited August 21, 20177 yr by binman

1 hour ago, faultydet said:

Haven't seen enough to even guess how good the kid might be, but I have a question.

Who is going to mind the Danihers, Browns Hipwoods of the world? 

If Lever is an intercept marking player, who will shut down the skyscrapers?

 Here's a highlights package from last year (his second year): In this video he makes spoils and marks against players including Brown (North), Bruce, Mason Wood (destroyed us), Lobbe and takes one between Dangerfield and Hawkins.

Who the fark do we have that can do this apart from T-Mac at his best which isn't that often these days?

This bloke was performing these acts in his second year! His second year!

 

 

Look at the bloke's strengths. He has a highlights package like that in his second year. We have no key defender that even comes close to being able to perform in all the areas he does. He possesses midfielder attributes as well as sound key defensive ones. He is so unbelievably rare it's offensive some of our own supporters don't appreciate players like Lever enough.

The 'who's going to mind player X' talk is generally a furphy. Yeh there are always preferable matchups, but there are so many other variables that come into play.

If you look at all the best teams, their entire unit works in tandem to mitigate an opposition attack but obviously the better, more talented and more versatile your key defenders are, the better chance you're going to have at stopping a key forward.

If we land him, it'll be a godsend. Bribanes two young defenders even showed how good they're going to be in few years time. They have similarly well-rounded games with only a few weaknesses. Melbourne supporters overate Oscar and Frost enormously.

Edited August 21, 20177 yr by stevethemanjordan

12 minutes ago, binman said:

You can't really have gorilla keepers anymore (think Frawley and dunn) as if they are not mobile enough you are one runner down.

 

Interesting you say that yet you remain so confident Oscar will develop into a great key defender....

Oscar is the least mobile and slowest key defender we have. Hardly conducive to a zone defence.

29 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Look at the bloke's strengths. He has a highlights package like that in his second year. We have no key defender that even comes close to being able to perform in all the areas he does. He possesses midfielder attributes as well as sound key defensive ones. He is so unbelievably rare it's offensive some of our own supporters don't appreciate players like Lever enough.

From the Herald Sun, August 2 this year...

"Lever’s manager, Ned Guy, is due to return from an overseas holiday next week."

 

 

 

Have you just returned to Australia in the past couple of weeks "Steve"?

2 hours ago, Demon77 said:

According to the AFL site Lever has told the Dogs he won't be going there.

Might just be me but I reckon there is a slight but nasty whiff of Hawthorn about this

3 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

Might just be me but I reckon there is a slight but nasty whiff of Hawthorn about this

Yep that's where I have thought he'd end up all along, especially now Gibson has retired.

1 hour ago, Caligula's Cohort! said:

Has anyone else heard the rumour that the Crows, Carlton and Melbourne are doing a 3 way trade? Watts to Carlton, Gibbs to Adelaide and Lever to Melbourne. If true what's everyone's opinion on that? I'd personally keep Watts, he's stuck with us through thick and thin over the years and he deserves all the success coming our way.

Carlton might want Pedo now.

 

5 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

Might just be me but I reckon there is a slight but nasty whiff of Hawthorn about this

It's always a worry going by recent history, but the trouble for the Hawks is they have nothing to give up. They gave up anything of worth to get Jaeger last year. They're without first and second round picks this year I believe. They don't have any stars young enough to have currency for trading. It'd be a miracle if they somehow landed him for Bruest and a 3rd rounder.

We're in the box seat now for Lever if he is coming back to Victoria. We have the picks to trade, and decent developing young players who we could trade also. No-one like an Oliver or Petracca, but guys like Neal-Bullen, Harmes etc who could be added as a sweetener and play a role for the Crows.

Exciting times ahead regarding this situation!

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 Here's a highlights package from last year (his second year): In this video he makes spoils and marks against players including Brown (North), Bruce, Mason Wood (destroyed us), Lobbe and takes one between Dangerfield and Hawkins.

 

Careful steve you might scare Lever off with your feverish passion for him. I don't think i can ever recall a DL poster express so much love for a MFC player, let alone one who plays for an opposition team.

Have you seen the film swimfan? 

1 hour ago, Caligula's Cohort! said:

Has anyone else heard the rumour that the Crows, Carlton and Melbourne are doing a 3 way trade? Watts to Carlton, Gibbs to Adelaide and Lever to Melbourne. If true what's everyone's opinion on that? I'd personally keep Watts, he's stuck with us through thick and thin over the years and he deserves all the success coming our way.

Sounds like SEN gobbledygook. Not saying its wrong though.

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 Here's a highlights package from last year (his second year): In this video he makes spoils and marks against players including Brown (North), Bruce, Mason Wood (destroyed us), Lobbe and takes one between Dangerfield and Hawkins.

Who the fark do we have that can do this apart from T-Mac at his best which isn't that often these days?

This bloke was performing these acts in his second year! His second year!

 

 

Look at the bloke's strengths. He has a highlights package like that in his second year. We have no key defender that even comes close to being able to perform in all the areas he does. He possesses midfielder attributes as well as sound key defensive ones. He is so unbelievably rare it's offensive some of our own supporters don't appreciate players like Lever enough.

The 'who's going to mind player X' talk is generally a furphy. Yeh there are always preferable matchups, but there are so many other variables that come into play.

If you look at all the best teams, their entire unit works in tandem to mitigate an opposition attack but obviously the better, more talented and more versatile your key defenders are, the better chance you're going to have at stopping a key forward.

If we land him, it'll be a godsend. Bribanes two young defenders even showed how good they're going to be in few years time. They have similarly well-rounded games with only a few weaknesses. Melbourne supporters overate Oscar and Frost enormously.

Who? were we watching the same game? Harris Andrews makes Oscar look like a speed demon. 

McStay kept kicking it to us.

Their opponents kicked 9 goals.

 

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Interesting you say that yet you remain so confident Oscar will develop into a great key defender....

Oscar is the least mobile and slowest key defender we have. Hardly conducive to a zone defence.

Really?

I couldn't be bothered going back further but I've looked at the last 5 games.  In those five games (PA, NM, GWS, StK, Brisbane) Brown has kicked 4, Membery and Westoff 2 and no other tall has kicked more than one.

For all your posturing and desperation to keep the "Oscar is a dud" myth going the proof certainly doesn't seem to be in the pudding.

I'd love Lever, I'd love any elite talent and if elite talent chooses you then take it.  But the facts seem to be that our defence is in pretty good shape and opposition talls don't regularly get hold of us.

2 hours ago, Caligula's Cohort! said:

Has anyone else heard the rumour that the Crows, Carlton and Melbourne are doing a 3 way trade? Watts to Carlton, Gibbs to Adelaide and Lever to Melbourne. If true what's everyone's opinion on that? I'd personally keep Watts, he's stuck with us through thick and thin over the years and he deserves all the success coming our way.

Well the rumours are starting, I suppose we are getting to that time of year.

If you examine carefully the way Goodwin spoke about Watts in the after match this week, your rumour could have legs.

I heard today that Kent and Frost are the players to Carlton, with the rest being the same as yours.

Who knows?

1 hour ago, SFebey said:

Yep that's where I have thought he'd end up all along, especially now Gibson has retired.

Can definitely see it happening

1 minute ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Really?

I couldn't be bothered going back further but I've looked at the last 5 games.  In those five games (PA, NM, GWS, StK, Brisbane) Brown has kicked 4, Membery and Westoff 2 and no other tall has kicked more than one.

 

Haha.

Couldn't be bothered or worried what you might find? 

Regardless, you and your merrymen can continue to put words in my mouth. I've never used the word dud in regards to Oscar. I point out his glaringly obvious weaknesses because I want to see better for our club and I get frustrated that he is playing partly due to circumstance. Part of the frustration is directed at the FD for not recruiting anyone last year to give Oscar more time at VFL level. People choose to believe it's not an issue but I think it's plainly obvious we've struggled all year in that area.

Unlike you and others I refuse to put blind faith into every decision the club makes, including weekly selections and list management decisions. I'm not so easily pleased like you with all of our young players and I'm happy to voice my opinion about it.

1 hour ago, Go the Biff said:

Might just be me but I reckon there is a slight but nasty whiff of Hawthorn about this

 

As has been asked before, what on earth do Hawthorn have to offer Adelaide?

3 hours ago, Caligula's Cohort! said:

Has anyone else heard the rumour that the Crows, Carlton and Melbourne are doing a 3 way trade? Watts to Carlton, Gibbs to Adelaide and Lever to Melbourne. If true what's everyone's opinion on that? I'd personally keep Watts, he's stuck with us through thick and thin over the years and he deserves all the success coming our way.

If the deal was anything like that, i would personally make like a bandit.

Watts for Lever any day of the week.

Lever is 5 years younger and at LEAST as good as Watts already.

 

*shakes hands on the deal.

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Carlton might want Pedo now.

 

2 First rounders and i might consider it.......................................

Whats a Brownlow worth after all ?