4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

It is so frustrating that people won't see what is staring them in the face, H-T! 

How many people are criticising OMac for not getting enough of the ball?

His disposal count says nothing about his positioning, bodywork, strength, aggression, how he links up in transition, second efforts, etc. etc. etc. 

Useful to point out his disposal count but to suggest that, based on that alone, he is doing so well that it is "staring them in the face" is pretty silly IMO.

Wow. 19 pages of a thread hanging [censored] on a 20 year old kid trying to find his way in the AFL. As though all our misfortunes are on his head. 

Get a grip, people. Seriously, now. 

I think many are missing the point here. It's not so much about Oscar as it is the club. The angst isn't directed at Mc Donald Junior. 

18 minutes ago, JackoTheMuss said:

Wow. 19 pages of a thread hanging [censored] on a 20 year old kid trying to find his way in the AFL. As though all our misfortunes are on his head. 

Get a grip, people. Seriously, now. 

The reason there are so many posts is because every time someone like me says he's not AFL ready someone like you goes off their nana.

Rinse and repeat.  

Those supportive of his place in the team are just as culpable for the thread going so long.  You just have a different message. 

Do you want to see us play Grimes and Dunn who continue, after years, to make the same mistakes or play a young player who shows promise? We're at least a season from finals, I know who I prefer played.

Just now, Ethan Tremblay said:

Do you want to see us play Grimes and Dunn who continue, after years, to make the same mistakes or play a young player who shows promise? We're at least a season from finals, I know you I'd rather play.

I'd rather play a mix of young and old. it doesn't have to be either/or. The kids are the future, no one disagrees there, but let's develop them slow and steady and have some experience and leadership around them.

 

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

you could play Ronald McDonald on Cloke and you'd be OK the way he is playing

agreed, but always plays good against us 

6 minutes ago, JackoTheMuss said:

Wow. 19 pages of a thread hanging [censored] on a 20 year old kid trying to find his way in the AFL. As though all our misfortunes are on his head. 

Get a grip, people. Seriously, now. 

You would be in Clint's second group.

The thread starts off on a crap note. Other than that it is a worthwhile discussion.

2 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Do you want to see us play Grimes and Dunn who continue, after years, to make the same mistakes or play a young player who shows promise? We're at least a season from finals, I know who I prefer played.

The sudden whitewashing of Dunn's career as a defender is perplexing.

What I want is to play the best 22 available players every week to give us the best chance of winning every week.

Dunn was VC last year and a very competent member of our defence. We saw captain James Mcdonald get shunted and this treatment of Dunn has shades of that.

In isolation, Oscar grew so much throughout he game on the weekend. He will be a good player quickly it seems.

But Dunn is good now, so the heat is on Oscar to perform. 

29 minutes ago, P-man said:

The sudden whitewashing of Dunn's career as a defender is perplexing.

What I want is to play the best 22 available players every week to give us the best chance of winning every week.

He's played four (average) games this season, dropped as the VC and not even in the leadership group. Maybe the club knows more than we do?

Building a strong culture at the club isn't just about on field performances.

 

5 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

He's played four (average) games this season, dropped as the VC and not even in the leadership group. Maybe the club knows more than we do?

Building a strong culture at the club isn't just about on field performances.

He was decidedly poor against the Sainst as was the majority of the side. His other games weren't as poor as has been made out.

i know many prefer a default position of the FD always knows best, which is a handy one when things pay off. Roos has admitted fault several times this year alone. I'm comfortable questioning the decision. 

If Dunn is now injured, it takes the debate off the table for the time being.

48 minutes ago, The Song Formerly Known As said:

agreed, but always plays good against us 

He had a shocker last time, two gimmes in the goal square were about the only times he touched the ball. Fingers crossed he's just as bad this week because I can't forget him splitting packs into pieces on his way to 7.0 last season.

14 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

AFL Ratings Team of the Week

Team of the Week - Round 11
Debuts: O.McDonald, A.McD-Tip, L.Whitfield
4th appearance of '16: H.Shaw, M.Gawn, M.Bont

 

14 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

I wonder if this will shut a few up? He's doing fine and let him keep developing in the 1's.

Vince and Tyson, but no OMac (or Gawn).

Not sure where you got this "Team Of The Week" from, but the fact it has Gawn, McDonald-Tipungwuti and Shaw (who were all average at best) as well as OMac should tell you it probably doesn't have a lot of credibility.

Team of the week: round 11

 

 

11 minutes ago, stuie said:

 

Vince and Tyson, but no OMac (or Gawn).

Not sure where you got this "Team Of The Week" from, but the fact it has Gawn, McDonald-Tipungwuti and Shaw (who were all average at best) as well as OMac should tell you it probably doesn't have a lot of credibility.

Team of the week: round 11

 

 

He meant the AFL Ratings Team of the Week

https://twitter.com/aflplayerrating/status/739686808133369856

3 minutes ago, Demon Jack said:

He meant the AFL Ratings Team of the Week

https://twitter.com/aflplayerrating/status/739686808133369856

Wow, that's a rubbish team. Shows why you can't judge things based on stats.

 

16 hours ago, Django said:

We live in a society of instant gratification where people struggle to be patient.

OMac is playing rather well for a 20 year old key defender with 6 games under his belt. He'll be right.

But when combined with Hunt, Wagner and a brother that is making a lot of ordinary decisions and has generally poor disposal we have a very inexperienced defence that is leaking goals. Jetta and Hunt have a manic attack on the ball or player with the ball but Wagner is sloppy, Oscar is outbodied too easily (and has little urgency) and TMac has fundamental flaws in his game. Collectively this is a problem. OMac cant be learning his craft in the seniors with all of the newbies around him. It makes us too vulnerable.

Jetta is our most reliable defender by a mile but we don't have a big bodied defender that's reliable. Hence we get cleaned up by Reiwoldt, Cloke, Membery, Lobbe etc etc

37 minutes ago, stuie said:

Wow, that's a rubbish team. Shows why you can't judge things based on stats.

 

I agree. It's the same list that rates Marcus Bontempelli and Nic Natiauni as two of the top ten players in the competition. Good players, but certainly not top ten worthy. I never take these too seriously 

13 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

 OMac cant be learning his craft in the seniors with all of the newbies around him. It makes us too vulnerable.

Fpr the people saying "develop him in the AFL not the VFL", please read this sentence again.

 

Just now, stuie said:

Fpr the people saying "develop him in the AFL not the VFL", please read this sentence again.

 

What you could argue though is that, with Hunt, Wagner, the McDonald boys, Jetta etc, they see this as our defence for the next 10 years at least (Jetta won't play for that long but you get my drift) and they are playing them together to develop that synergy and understanding of how to play in defence as a unit.  

Yes, it's coming along slowly and we do leak goals and look fumbly at times, but imagine how well they will work together defensively once they've got 20-30 games under their belt together in the same backline.

I get the opposite argument too Stuie, so I'm not necessarily arguing for this, more that I believe it is why we are playing these kids together.

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

What you could argue though is that, with Hunt, Wagner, the McDonald boys, Jetta etc, they see this as our defence for the next 10 years at least (Jetta won't play for that long but you get my drift) and they are playing them together to develop that synergy and understanding of how to play in defence as a unit.  

Yes, it's coming along slowly and we do leak goals and look fumbly at times, but imagine how well they will work together defensively once they've got 20-30 games under their belt together in the same backline.

I get the opposite argument too Stuie, so I'm not necessarily arguing for this, more that I believe it is why we are playing these kids together.

Yeah look, I do think that is our future backline and that Hunt, Wagner and McDonald are going to become a good unit together, but my point is just we often take things for granted in that argument and forget that they actually have to develop properly to get to that stage.

It's like people saying don't play senior player X because he won't be part of our premiership side, while ignoring the fact that player X is needed to provide leadership and experience and be a mature body that can put up with the rigors of AFL while the young kids (especially the KPPs) build their strength and endurance.

I just think we've taken development for granted in the past and it backfired badly. Remember when we were going to be the "next superpower"?

 

19 minutes ago, stuie said:

I just think we've taken development for granted in the past and it backfired badly.

Not so sure we took development 'for granted', given that we were bad at it.

Are those who are complaining now about young players spending some time in the AFL, learning the pace of the game and the desperation required, the same ones who complained about lack of development in the past? Seems a bit contradictory.

I have no doubt Oscar will go back to Casey at some stage to consolidate some learnings. At the moment there's not much choice though, with Garland and Dunn both injured. We could feasibly replace him with a player like Grimes (or Garland if he comes up quicker) if there wasn't a need for a third tall in defence, depending on the opposition.

2 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

I have no doubt Oscar will go back to Casey at some stage to consolidate some learnings. At the moment there's not much choice though,

this ^^^

Just now, mauriesy said:

Not so sure we took development 'for granted', given that we were bad at it.

Are those who are complaining now about young players spending some time in the AFL, learning the pace of the game and the desperation required, the same ones who complained about lack of development in the past? Seems a bit contradictory.

I have no doubt Oscar will go back to Casey at some stage to consolidate some learnings. At the moment there's not much choice though, with Garland and Dunn both injured. We could feasibly replace him with a player like Grimes (or Garland if he comes up quicker) if there wasn't a need for a third tall in defence, depending on the opposition.

I don't think you understood what I meant.

If you read my whole post and put it in context, you will see that I was talking about how we just assume our young players will eventually reach their full potential and forget that development is a slow and steady process that needs senior players to guide it.

No one is complaining about him spending "some time" in the AFL, it's needed for his development, but you don't just plonk him there and say "there you go kid, now.... develop!", which is what some posters have suggested and was what I was responding to. The fact that you think Oscar will go back to Casey at some stage shows you agree with me.

 

40 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

What you could argue though is that, with Hunt, Wagner, the McDonald boys, Jetta etc, they see this as our defence for the next 10 years at least (Jetta won't play for that long but you get my drift) and they are playing them together to develop that synergy and understanding of how to play in defence as a unit.  

Yes, it's coming along slowly and we do leak goals and look fumbly at times, but imagine how well they will work together defensively once they've got 20-30 games under their belt together in the same backline.

I get the opposite argument too Stuie, so I'm not necessarily arguing for this, more that I believe it is why we are playing these kids together.

Or it's simply that we lack so much backline depth and quality that we have no alternative?

Look at what we know: Dunn isn't rated by the coaches for reasons we can guess. Your lover-boy Garland is incapable of playing the way a bloke of his experience should. T-Mac has been incredibly up and down this year. We've had two debutants become mainstay flankers in Hunt and Wagner. We've had Oscar playing games because the coaches refuse to play Dunn. 

We lack depth and quality. 

Just as we did with our midfield not long ago. 

Simple.

3 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Or it's simply that we lack so much backline depth and quality that we have no alternative?

Look at what we know: Dunn isn't rated by the coaches for reasons we can guess. Your lover-boy Garland is incapable of playing the way a bloke of his experience should. T-Mac has been incredibly up and down this year. We've had two debutants become mainstay flankers in Hunt and Wagner. We've had Oscar playing games because the coaches refuse to play Dunn. 

We lack depth and quality. 

Just as we did with our midfield not long ago. 

Simple.

But that's a different point to talking about what's best for his development.

Couple of tangents going on and starting to overlap when they probably shouldn't.