THE HUNT FOR A RED HOT RUCKMAN

[Demonland 71,256]

THE HUNT FOR A RED HOT RUCKMAN by Whispering Jack

When Max Gawn made the statement earlier this year that he wanted to be recognised among the top echelon of AFL ruckmen there were very few who would have considered him to be in contention let alone the favourite for All Australian ruck honours by the end of the season. That's exactly where he sits at the moment and his ascendency has coincided with Melbourne's rise up the ladder and its position as an outside chance for a finals berth.

We've been fortunate to have such a red hot ruckman but success has not come overnight for Max Gawn who was recruited at #34 in the 2009 AFL National Draft. He had two knee reconstructions and a meniscus tear before establishing his position as the club's top big man last year. Max only had his first uninterrupted pre season this year and has gone on to play every game. 

But, at the same time, the club's back up ruckman Jake Spencer has had some injury problems, recruit ruckman Mitch King's season lasted about five minutes before tearing his ACL in VFL round 1 and rookie Max King, now in his third year, is languishing in the Scorpions' Development League. Luckily, the Demons haven't been placed in the position of delving into its reserve ruck depth. 

So despite having arguably the #1 ruckman in the competition, the paradox is that it's quite possible that the club's focus in the trade and draft period will be on locating a ruckman to add to its stocks in 2017 and beyond. 

With the club's first round draft pick for 2016 having been spent by way of a trade with the Gold Coast Suns last year, the Demons' first selection in the November National Draft now sits notionally at #28 (last night's win in Adelaide moved us back another two places). At that range, you are not going to get the top midfielders or key position players but, because big men generally develop late, clubs are wary of using early draft picks on young ruck prospects. And that places Melbourne in a position where it could be right in the frame to take a young big man with that selection (assuming the Demons still have that pick at the draft).

The highest ranking ruckman on Knightmare's AFL August Draft-Power Rankings is South Fremantle's Tim English. Here's the BIO:

"18. Tim English (VIC)
Best position: Ruck
Height, weight: 203cm, 86kg
Recruited from: South Fremantle
Plays like: Josh Fraser
Projected draft range: top 10
Rated last month: 22
Rationale behind ranking/change of ranking: Has continued his improvement through July with his work around the ground getting better.
Strengths:
- Late growth, growing from midfield height to ruck height in the past three years, suggesting physical growth and further football improvement likely
- Rate of improvement
- Midfield-quality footskills with low, precise kicking to targets
- Disposal numbers
- Mobility
- Clean below the knees
Weaknesses:
- Lack of size and strength
- Tap work and hitout numbers behind his peers
- Contested marking
- Scoreboard impact
- Versatility to play a second position"

Knightmare's AFL August Draft-Power Rankings

There aren't many highly credentialed young ruckmen around and the search might have to extend to the mature age types in the State Leagues, noting that two of the competition's most dominant big men in Dean Cox and Aaron Sandilands came from those ranks.

Claremont ruckman Darcy Cameron was described on the AFL website as follows:-

"Darcy Cameron
Claremont
204cm/104kg
18/7/95

Cameron was overlooked at the 2013 NAB AFL Draft with a query on his pace and his consistency in competing. But he's improved those aspects of his game and presents as a mature-age tall who is able to play in the ruck and in attack. Cameron has enjoyed a solid season at WAFL level for Claremont."

Mature-age talent who might have caught the eye

Unfortunately, Cameron suffered a broken jaw playing in the WAFL last month - AFL draft hopeful breaks jaw in sickening WAFL hit 

If the club is looking for another big man, it might not have to look very far. Casey's Oscar McInerney is 22, 203cm and 100kg. He has only played two VFL Senior games but has impressed at the club and could bloom as a late developer. He and teammate Declan Keilty, a 194cm tall jack of all trades type who has played as a part timer in the ruck for the Scorpions, have both been invited to the State Combine in October.

Then there are the trades and who knows whether a player like Shane Mumford might be offered up on the table this year?

And so, whilst most clubs will be fighting over the best midfielders in the land, I suspect that the circumstances might place Melbourne in the hunt for another type of player - a red, hot ruckman.

[Old Bear 388]

Great post

would love for Spencer to have success 

works so hard for Casey and has improved his skills 

[Fat Tony 5,217]

I am not in favour of drafting another ruckman unless they are clear cut above the draft pool. Sure if Max gets injured we would be very long odds to win the flag. But I see ruckmen like wicketkeepers. You can only have one in the team. 

I would therefore prefer not to pay for insurance and bolster our defence or look for another outside midfielder. 

Readymade ruckmen are also able to be easily traded for IMO. 

[Deeoldfart 8,005]

Nightmare's suggestion that Tim English plays like Josh Fraser is a turn-off for me (lol), as is his skinny frame. I'd prefer to pick up a mature age, mobile ruckman to bringing in another 'project' ruckman at this stage 

[Master Deebater 490]

7 hours ago, Demonland said:

THE HUNT FOR A RED HOT RUCKMAN by Whispering Jack

When Max Gawn made the statement earlier this year that he wanted to be recognised among the top echelon of AFL ruckmen there were very few who would have considered him to be in contention let alone the favourite for All Australian ruck honours by the end of the season. That's exactly where he sits at the moment and his ascendency has coincided with Melbourne's rise up the ladder and its position as an outside chance for a finals berth.

We've been fortunate to have such a red hot ruckman but success has not come overnight for Max Gawn who was recruited at #34 in the 2009 AFL National Draft. He had two knee reconstructions and a meniscus tear before establishing his position as the club's top big man last year. Max only had his first uninterrupted pre season this year and has gone on to play every game. 

But, at the same time, the club's back up ruckman Jake Spencer has had some injury problems, recruit ruckman Mitch King's season lasted about five minutes before tearing his ACL in VFL round 1 and rookie Max King, now in his third year, is languishing in the Scorpions' Development League. Luckily, the Demons haven't been placed in the position of delving into its reserve ruck depth. 

So despite having arguably the #1 ruckman in the competition, the paradox is that it's quite possible that the club's focus in the trade and draft period will be on locating a ruckman to add to its stocks in 2017 and beyond. 

With the club's first round draft pick for 2016 having been spent by way of a trade with the Gold Coast Suns last year, the Demons' first selection in the November National Draft now sits notionally at #28 (last night's win in Adelaide moved us back another two places). At that range, you are not going to get the top midfielders or key position players but, because big men generally develop late, clubs are wary of using early draft picks on young ruck prospects. And that places Melbourne in a position where it could be right in the frame to take a young big man with that selection (assuming the Demons still have that pick at the draft).

The highest ranking ruckman on Knightmare's AFL August Draft-Power Rankings is South Fremantle's Tim English. Here's the BIO:

"18. Tim English (VIC)
Best position: Ruck
Height, weight: 203cm, 86kg
Recruited from: South Fremantle
Plays like: Josh Fraser
Projected draft range: top 10
Rated last month: 22
Rationale behind ranking/change of ranking: Has continued his improvement through July with his work around the ground getting better.
Strengths:
- Late growth, growing from midfield height to ruck height in the past three years, suggesting physical growth and further football improvement likely
- Rate of improvement
- Midfield-quality footskills with low, precise kicking to targets
- Disposal numbers
- Mobility
- Clean below the knees
Weaknesses:
- Lack of size and strength
- Tap work and hitout numbers behind his peers
- Contested marking
- Scoreboard impact
- Versatility to play a second position"

Knightmare's AFL August Draft-Power Rankings

There aren't many highly credentialed young ruckmen around and the search might have to extend to the mature age types in the State Leagues, noting that two of the competition's most dominant big men in Dean Cox and Aaron Sandilands came from those ranks.

Claremont ruckman Darcy Cameron was described on the AFL website as follows:-

"Darcy Cameron
Claremont
204cm/104kg
18/7/95

Cameron was overlooked at the 2013 NAB AFL Draft with a query on his pace and his consistency in competing. But he's improved those aspects of his game and presents as a mature-age tall who is able to play in the ruck and in attack. Cameron has enjoyed a solid season at WAFL level for Claremont."

Mature-age talent who might have caught the eye

Unfortunately, Cameron suffered a broken jaw playing in the WAFL last month - AFL draft hopeful breaks jaw in sickening WAFL hit 

If the club is looking for another big man, it might not have to look very far. Casey's Oscar McInerney is 22, 203cm and 100kg. He has only played two VFL Senior games but has impressed at the club and could bloom as a late developer. He and teammate Declan Keilty, a 194cm tall jack of all trades type who has played as a part timer in the ruck for the Scorpions, have both been invited to the State Combine in October.

Then there are the trades and who knows whether a player like Shane Mumford might be offered up on the table this year?

And so, whilst most clubs will be fighting over the best midfielders in the land, I suspect that the circumstances might place Melbourne in the hunt for another type of player - a red, hot ruckman.

Now that we've got such a good developing group of young & skillful midfielders we can now afford to address needs.

Agree with W/jack that while the majority of 1st round picks will target the best young mids we are in a position to identify (if poss) a potentially great tall ruck/forward.

I trust in our current recruiting team to do their due diligence.

 

[george_on_the_outer 7,560]

The last couple of games would have demonstrated how utterly dependant we are on Max Gawn.  Not just for his rucking, but his telling defensive and offensive grabs, when       everything was on the line. 

Spencer can fill a role for a couple of games if needed, but still cannot kick properly, mark overhead or is mobile enough for AFL level. 

We all know ruckmen take time, and we still don't know about Max and Mitch King. 

We certainly need to have someone ready to take over the Max mantle in 5 years or so. 

[Redleg 40,811]

1 hour ago, george_on_the_outer said:

The last couple of games would have demonstrated how utterly dependant we are on Max Gawn.  Not just for his rucking, but his telling defensive and offensive grabs, when       everything was on the line. 

Spencer can fill a role for a couple of games if needed, but still cannot kick properly, mark overhead or is mobile enough for AFL level. 

We all know ruckmen take time, and we still don't know about Max and Mitch King. 

We certainly need to have someone ready to take over the Max mantle in 5 years or so. 

Gee, I was hoping we would get another 8 or more years out of Max, at least.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Darcy Cameron is someone who i think could well be worth a look. Has an ability to play forward also.

Only other options i see out there is Nathan Vardy, but reckon Geelong would want a lot in a trade.

[mdemon 266]

Daniel Currie is a true 'journeyman' ruckman. Went to Gold Coast after stints at the Swans and North but has found himself behind Tom Nicholls with Brooksby as the young backup and an untried rookie in Loersch. Will be 28 at the start of next year but would be ready made insurance.

Nankervis and Naismith at the Swans appeal as younger alternatives who would seem to have limited prospects given Tippet and Sinclair are ahead of them both.

[dazzledavey36 54,202]

Tom Campbell from the Western Bulldogs.

[mattjm 151]

nathan vardy for 2 years

[chook fowler 19,444]

Caleb Daniel?

[Moonshadow 17,675]

32 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

Caleb Daniel?

His best chance of a hit out is by tunnelling his opponent!

[Nasher 33,607]

How about not even contesting the ruck, and instead just have an extra midfielder sharking the opposition's lone ruckman's inevitable hitout?

[snomed 54]

"Plays like Josh Fraser" is hardly enticing. 

[Demon_JB 1,376]

Would we possibly entertain Zac Clark? 26 years of age and can take a grab.

Some of the people I know are best mates with Zac and he is eager to come back to live in Melbourne.

Thoughts? Could come cheap.

[hells bells 2,023]

9 minutes ago, juzzk1d said:

Would we possibly entertain Zac Clark? 26 years of age and can take a grab.

Some of the people I know are best mates with Zac and he is eager to come back to live in Melbourne.

Thoughts? Could come cheap.

We could do a lot worse IMO

[Nasher 33,607]

2 minutes ago, hells bells said:

We could do a lot worse IMO

Who would he play in front of?

Watts seems to have been pretty much settled upon for the second ruck.  Since moving in there, Pedersen has only been picked as a pure forward - even in the last two weeks when Pedersen has been in, Watts has been the second ruck.  I think this role for the MFC died some time ago.

To that end, I wouldn't bother bringing in any ruck types from other clubs.  Spots are finite - for rucks, use them to develop plays who will be used primary as first rucks - for backup to Gawn during apprenticeship years, and to take over from him later.  We've already got an already capable ruckman (Spencer) and an apprentice (Mitch King) on our list, so I don't see a need for another one.  Spencer gets released when King is ready, or approaching it, and at that point, we recruit a ruckman from the draft as the apprentice.  

It probably makes this thread boring, but I can't see us adding a ruckman to our list at all this year.  Three is the right number in my opinion.  

[dino rover 710]

I think forward ruck not ruck forward

So 2m plus who plays fwd and can chop out in the ruck not a ruck who cant play fwd

[nutbean 8,838]

It is a hard gig being a second string ruckman.

Unless you are forward/ruckman more than a ruckman you will struggle at the Dees to get time unless ...I dont even want to say it.

That is the beauty of a Pederson  (when he plays well) or the Leigh Brown type of footballer. They are positional footballers who can ruck.

I dont mind it when Big Max goes forward for a rest but he is a ruckman first and foremost and needs to spend 3/4 's of a game on the ground and rucking.

[Willmoy1947 4,080]

That kid with the beard in the NAB AFL ad looks like he's a ruckman....

[dazzledavey36 54,202]

If anything we need a David Hale type forward ruckman. Hale was a strong contested mark that could kick your 2 to 3 goals up forward.

Problem is the  only one who comes close to mind is Rory Lobbe.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

45 minutes ago, juzzk1d said:

Would we possibly entertain Zac Clark? 26 years of age and can take a grab.

Some of the people I know are best mates with Zac and he is eager to come back to live in Melbourne.

Thoughts? Could come cheap.

He is a FA, so not the worst idea. He' s certainly athletic and I'd rather him then Vickery.

Would he come to a club though where he'd be ruck depth only?

[dino rover 710]

Zac clark might look to succeed sandilands but on the other hand want to leave the sinking ship

Some knee issues and ross lyons views here

http://www.watoday.com.au/afl/fremantle-dockers/ross-lyon-fuels-doubt-over-future-of-zac-clarke-at-fremantle-dockers-20160715-gq6esm.html

 

Not rated here

http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Ratings/Player/114741/Zac-CLARKE

Edited August 16, 2016 by dino rover
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[Ted Lasso 19,272]

Not easy to convince a quality established AFL ruckman to come to the club to mostly play VFL footy behind Gawn, unless they're a dangerous third forward they're not really much more than backup for us,

Spencer is handy, but i'd look at someone like Minson, not the most highly rated option out there but if Gawn goes down you know he can come in and win hit outs and has some experience and so on.