1 hour ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Has Pedersen rucked much?  Against Hawks, when Hogan was absent and Watts was a key forward Pedersen played and Watts rucked.  And he just about won the game for us in the last quarter with passes to Pedersen and a couple to Tyson.

If Watts doesn't play I think Spencer must play and I don't like that at Etihad particularly.  The whole Watts situation stinks.

Yes that's right, last year Watts was 2nd ruck and I thought he was OK. Pedersen did ruck in 2015.  No 3rd man up may have influence on thinking this year.

I'm not keen on Spencer at Etihad either.  I think Watts plays against WC and then in R1.

On 26/02/2017 at 10:50 AM, ProDee said:

Garlett will now be battling for round one.

I've said repeatedly Jetta might struggle to get a game this year and Joel Smith is presenting a strong case for inclusion.  Smith is exceptionally agile, athletic and fast.  I see someone like Membrey as the right matchup.

Hunt can play on a Lonie or Gresham type.

Smith over Jetta could potentially be our highest ceiling backline. 2 McDonalds, Smith, Hibberd, Melksham, Vince, Hunt. That's a lot of run, marking/aerial ability and pace. It's an ideal zone defending set up where 7 guys can all intercept mark and cover territory.

But it's also a lot of headless chooks in the same backline. Hibberd's the only calm player in that lot. Vince and Melksham have moments of madness. Hunt has times where the run and carry doesn't work, especially if he's on a small forward close to goal - surely Hunt is better across half back where he can break the lines than stuck deeper minding an opponent? Smith is obviously inexperienced and the McDonald's are the McDonald's. 

Even if Lewis and Salem go to half back during games and Vince/Melksham/Hunt rotate on to a wing there's still not going to be a lot of cool decision making for a lot of the game. 

Jetta's lack of two way run is clearly a concern to Goodwin and the game he wants to play but right now I'd rather start the year with a bit more composure. Especially at Etihad where Jetta shouldn't have to cover all that much ground and where his side step and short kick in to the corridor could be extremely valuable. 

Those thinking Spencer has any chance of playing round 1 are kidding themselves.  Goody is just rewarding a good preseason and keeping him hungry if Gawn gets injured.

Spencer had 0 marks, 1 tackle and 1 kick on the weekend. 

Also those picking smith, can he get selected being a rookie without a LTI?  sorry if this has been covered

37 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I think it will be either Hibberd or Joel Smith on Membrey. I don't think Frost will be ready if he's not back training in the main group soon.

I was assuming that Frost would be fit, but if not then he's out.  Is Hibberd big enough for Membrey?

13 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Those thinking Spencer has any chance of playing round 1 are kidding themselves.  Goody is just rewarding a good preseason and keeping him hungry if Gawn gets injured.

It's not about Spencer per se, it's about playing a second ruckman to give Gawn relief but to also allow him to go forward where he is an extremely dangerous target.

It just so happens that Spencer is our next best option behind Gawn.

12 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I was assuming that Frost would be fit, but if not then he's out.  Is Hibberd big enough for Membrey?

Membrey's listed at 188cm, Hibberd 186cm. Both play above their height. If Frost and Smith aren't deemed ready he'd be a decent match up.

15 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

It's not about Spencer per se, it's about playing a second ruckman to give Gawn relief but to also allow him to go forward where he is an extremely dangerous target.

It just so happens that Spencer is our next best option behind Gawn.

but you need to factor in if Spencer is having very little influence on the game and reducing our run

Gawn got fwd a fair but last year in his first full season, and is fitter again so I'd expect 30 goals from him with only one ruck

Spencer cannot play fwd at all and has poor skills so IMO it is very unlikely he will play in round one. might get a go tactically against a few team perhaps

4 minutes ago, DubDee said:

but you need to factor in if Spencer is having very little influence on the game and reducing our run

Gawn got fwd a fair but last year in his first full season, and is fitter again so I'd expect 30 goals from him with only one ruck

Spencer cannot play fwd at all and has poor skills so IMO it is very unlikely he will play in round one. might get a go tactically against a few team perhaps

We simply cannot expect him to ruck as much as he did last year for every year going forward, it will take too much of a toll on him.

3 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

We simply cannot expect him to ruck as much as he did last year for every year going forward, it will take too much of a toll on him.

Is there really any evidence playing 80% in the ruck will wear him down faster than 50-60% ruck, 25-40% forward which is probably the way he'd play with Spencer?

With a more open spreading game plan that doesn't kick the down the line nearly as much and with no 3rd man up playing in the ruck could be far less physically taxing than last year.

Spencer just isn't smart enough to play regularly. Watts isn't big enough to ruck more than a few minutes a quarter.

I think we'll have to get creative with the answer to the 2nd ruck problem and if Joel Smith or Frost establish themselves as the 3rd tall defender then I'd be throwing Tom McDonald in to the ruck at times. He's the fittest key defender in the league and capable of swapping between positions and not getting gassed like most would. He was drafted to be a 2nd ruck and can be an extra midfielder around the ground. Roos has done it a couple of times when we've needed a change up and I'd do it more often especially if games are all but decided. I wouldn't be against the Weed going to CHB for some education every now and then either.

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

Those thinking Spencer has any chance of playing round 1 are kidding themselves.  Goody is just rewarding a good preseason and keeping him hungry if Gawn gets injured.

Spencer had 0 marks, 1 tackle and 1 kick on the weekend. 

Also those picking smith, can he get selected being a rookie without a LTI?  sorry if this has been covered

I think you will find Spencer playing Game 1 and he will be hard at it. Moving them out of the way for hogan to knock em down again, as Jack used to say "getting where the ball aint"

2 hours ago, DubDee said:

Those thinking Spencer has any chance of playing round 1 are kidding themselves.  Goody is just rewarding a good preseason and keeping him hungry if Gawn gets injured.

Spencer had 0 marks, 1 tackle and 1 kick on the weekend. 

Also those picking smith, can he get selected being a rookie without a LTI?  sorry if this has been covered

King has been put back onto the LTI list with a view to a slow and steady rehab, so I believe Smith now has a clean shot at round 1, if he can keep his form for full games through the pre-season.

This is all so complicated, how do we fit everyone in?! hee hee haw haw

I reckon Watts and Tyson (if fit) should and will come into the round 1 side.

I had thought Pedersen had Weideman covered (at this point in time) but I'm now starting to have my doubts.

Gawn will ruck sans Spencer. We need the run and spread and Spencer depletes this.

Kent will always be in the mix because he adds a lot IMO but his preseason seems to have been very interrupted and he may have to wait a bit longer for his call up.

Jetta is an interesting one. I'd considered him to be one of the leading small defenders in the competition over the past couple of seasons, but our game plan seems to have evolved this preseason in a way that may mean he hasn't got the all of the attrubutes that Goodwin requires in his back six. He's possibly no longer best 22.

Stretch will be one of the first players written down on the team sheet each week. Such a neat and tidy player who always takes the right option and executes it perfectly.

Petracca. Geez I'm glad St Kilda picked McCartin.

 

FB: Hibberd  T. McDonald   Hunt

HB: Melksham  O.McDonald  J. Smith

C: Salem   Viney  Vince

HF: Petracca  Hogan  Lewis

FF: Kent  Watts  Weiderman

Foll: Gawn  N.Jones  Oliver

Int: Tyson  Stretch  Brayshaw Bugg

Emergency: Spencer, Jetta , S Frost

Key match ups: Hibberd on Membrey, T.Mac on Roo, O.Mac on Bruce, J. Smith on McCartin
 

A few notes:

Weids edges out JKH and VDB for mine. 

Jetta may be underdone for now, Garlett assumed injured 

Harmes poor skill execution will be too costly at Etihad. ANB squeezed out. 

Assumes Watts has redeemed himself.

Edited February 27, 20178 yr by demon9

B: MELKSHAM, T.MCDONALD, VINCE

HB: HIBBERD, O.MCDONALD, HUNT

C: SALEM, JONES, LEWIS

HF: PETRACCA, HOGAN, BRAYSHAW

F: GARLETT, WEIDEMAN, GAWN

FOLL: SPENCER, VINEY, OLIVER

IC: STRETCH, TYSON, JETTA, KENT

EMERG: VANDENBERG, J.SMITH, HARMES

34 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

B: MELKSHAM, T.MCDONALD, VINCE

HB: HIBBERD, O.MCDONALD, HUNT

C: SALEM, JONES, LEWIS

HF: PETRACCA, HOGAN, BRAYSHAW

F: GARLETT, WEIDEMAN, GAWN

FOLL: SPENCER, VINEY, OLIVER

IC: STRETCH, TYSON, JETTA, KENT

EMERG: VANDENBERG, J.SMITH, HARMES

Give me Smith over a slow not up to it O Mac anyday!! Omac on Bruce?? Stand by for carnage!!

6 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

It's not about Spencer per se, it's about playing a second ruckman to give Gawn relief but to also allow him to go forward where he is an extremely dangerous target.

It just so happens that Spencer is our next best option behind Gawn.

The problem is that Spencer doesn't offer enough to warrant the upside of Gawn spending more time forward.

Ideally either Spencer needs to get better around the ground or Watts/Pedersen need to ruck more and be capable of giving Gawn a longer spell. 

I just don't think we can carry Spencer against most sides, let alone St Kilda (fast) at Etihad (fast).

Yes. i agree,there are plenty of valid reasons for Spencer not being included, Might i just add Spencer is going to make them think before they get, that's all. Whether it's worth more than the speed factor is problematic

1 hour ago, WERRIDEE said:

B: MELKSHAM, T.MCDONALD, VINCE

HB: HIBBERD, O.MCDONALD, HUNT

C: SALEM, JONES, LEWIS

HF: PETRACCA, HOGAN, BRAYSHAW

F: GARLETT, WEIDEMAN, GAWN

FOLL: SPENCER, VINEY, OLIVER

IC: STRETCH, TYSON, JETTA, KENT

EMERG: VANDENBERG, J.SMITH, HARMES

No Bugg? Also need another tall defender - they have 4 tall forwards and Carisle who can play at both ends

9 minutes ago, demon9 said:

No Bugg? Also need another tall defender - they have 4 tall forwards and Carisle who can play at both ends

I don't think Bugg is in our best 25. I may put J.Smith ahead of Jetta or Kent depending what happens against West Coast.

B: Jetta - T. McDonald - O. McDonald
HB: Hunt - Pederson - Lewis
C:  Salem - Melksham - Watts
HF: Petracca (also mid-field) - Weideman - Neal-Bullen
F: Vandenberg - Hogan - Vince
Foll: Gawn - Jones - Viney
I/C: - Brayshaw - Oliver - Bugg - Stretch
Emerg: Garlett -Tyson - Kent

Vince forward due dodgy kicking

Petracca to spend some time at  CHF

Pederson and Watts to second ruck and fill in at CHB

Weideman picked for potential, say later in the second half.

Garlett can't be trusted to put in whilst on the field.

Hibberd is still off the pace.

It is interesting that people are picking Hogan at CHF.  I would rather have him at FF putting the wind up three defenders although I note that  Goodwin is slimming him down.   When the Melbourne FB forced Richo et al. out to the wing to mark, it was counted as a win.

Spencer tried but just provided a contest.

 

 

Edited February 27, 20178 yr by steve_f

Really need to see Pedo, Kent, Tyson, Watts, Jetta and Garlett in JLT3 before making the decision as when on they are all in my best 22.

I feel Jetta is getting some tough treatment here. He has played throughout the midfield and up forward in his career so there is no reason why he can't 'up' his attacking game from the backline.

Also, Kent, Garlett and Watts add skill and speed plus were three out of our top 4 goal kickers last year. If they are good to go they are definitely in. 

The nqr's un Vanders, Spencer, Harmes, Bugg, Trenners and Smith all bring things to the table and will get there chances during the season but not round 1.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 20178 yr by deeko

2 hours ago, deeko said:

Really need to see Pedo, Kent, Tyson, Watts, Jetta and Garlett in JLT3 before making the decision as when on they are all in my best 22.

 

......and frosty too

I keep thinking about Round 1 and how we're going to contain all of Riewoldt, Bruce, McCartin and Membrey.

Really, I think going in with Oscar and Tom as our only two talls in the backline has the potential to be disastrous. 

 

5 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I keep thinking about Round 1 and how we're going to contain all of Riewoldt, Bruce, McCartin and Membrey.

Really, I think going in with Oscar and Tom as our only two talls in the backline has the potential to be disastrous. 

 

Win the midfield battle and outnumber at the contest is the best way to curb their talls.

 

But I feel as though we'll have to comprehensively beat them through the midfield to negate the threat of their talls.

And their midfield is pretty solid. 

Last year's two losses have me feeling vulnerable.

How's about this for a far-out/horses for courses kind of scenario:

A ruck duo of Gawn/Spencer with Gawn going forward when Spencer is in the middle allowing a forward-line of Gawn, Weed and Watts.

Hogan to go head to head with Riewoldt all day. 

T Mac to Bruce, O Mac to McCartin and Hibberd to Membrey.

Crazy [censored]?