AFL clubs are more businesses than community groups these days, but:

http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/2016/06/06/vic-councils-demand-cut-afl-pokies-cash/?utm_source=Responsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20160607_TND2

Carlton people have always been good at "creative accounting"

Mathison,Elliot,Pratt and probably many others.

Does not surprise me at all that they would shaft the Western Suburbs to benefit themselves.

Collingwood and Hawthorn are similarly dishonest as well now it seems.

This is what I hate about the AFL. On one hand they want to be the moral arbiter of everything, but on the other hand they are allowing clubs to profit off of the misfortune of others. But not just others - the misfortune of battling families. Gambling wrecks families, and it wrecks lives. The AFL are perfectly fine with the clubs under their banner to profit off of the hardship of the less fortunate. Anger shouldn't just be directed at the clubs, but at the AFL as a whole.

9 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

This is what I hate about the AFL. On one hand they want to be the moral arbiter of everything, but on the other hand they are allowing clubs to profit off of the misfortune of others. But not just others - the misfortune of battling families. Gambling wrecks families, and it wrecks lives. The AFL are perfectly fine with the clubs under their banner to profit off of the hardship of the less fortunate. Anger shouldn't just be directed at the clubs, but at the AFL as a whole.

KDA I thought you would have realised by now that AFL has one prime objective and that is to raise the maximum amount of money available.

Everything else runs a very  bad second. They are about token themes and games to cover up their many failings.

North is the only part of the AFL that can hold its head high as far as gambling monies goes.

29 minutes ago, old dee said:

KDA I thought you would have realised by now that AFL has one prime objective and that is to raise the maximum amount of money available.

Everything else runs a very  bad second. They are about token themes and games to cover up their many failings.

North is the only part of the AFL that can hold its head high as far as gambling monies goes.

I agree. Not only did North opt out, but they have never tanked. The AFL system encouraged tanking, but North never did that either. I actually thought they should have (years ago), but they didn't, and now they are being rewarded. Sure, free agency has helped them, but I think it was more about setting a precedent. Cannot help but respect North. Even though I hate them because they always belt us, I respect them more than any other team. This pokies debacle is another thing North are on the right side of. Good on them. Shame on the AFL.

Edited June 7, 20169 yr by KingDingAling

On one hand it's disgusting and a disgrace and extremely cynical placing these machines in poorer communities. 

On the other hand they are legal and if anyone's going to profit off them it might as well be footy clubs. Avoiding reinvesting the money into the community by claiming it on upgrades to facilities is ridiculous but no more so than the various other tax rorts. 

Well Tobbaco is also legal. It's a disgrace allowing these reverse ATM machines to thrive in poorer areas. 

I would be very proud of Melbourne took a stand against this.

It's a strange rule to begin with.

It's like telling a heroin dealer they can continue to deal as long as they help 5 people quit smoking cigarettes.

Hawthorn, the great family club. Yeah, right.

Tough one Pokie Machines

nobody forces anyone to use them

but i have known cafè owners who put the shop takings through machines after closing. 

Staff lose jobs

but if they didn't exist gambling would just be blacker black market..

Pokie profits? You mean this thread isn't about the revenue raised by Biffen's flesh for hire service? That's all interest out the window for me!

Joking in bad taste aside, whilst Victoria underwent some changes during the Kennett era that were required (i.e. council amalgamations, scrapping state owned merchant banks), one of the sadder things that happened during that time is that Victoria moved further away (and continues to move away) from actually producing things of value (cars, steel, textiles) and closer to a vapid and soulless society that creates wealth from a service economy, leisure activities and entertainment. This is best symbolized by Crown Casino and the kind of 'entertainment' it provides. I wouldn't be caught dead there. Entering the gaming floor there feels like entering the car park of the shopping mall in 'Dawn of the Dead'.

This of course has spread to Victoria's most well established institution: the AFL. As was said earlier, as much as I dislike Norf due to their dominance over us, you can't but help respect them. They resisted the lure of the neon money sucking vampire octopus that is the pokie industry and stuck to their principles. Shame Hawthorn (the family club) makes a pot load of money from an activity that ruins many families.

Edited June 7, 20169 yr by Colin B. Flaubert
Just wanted to add one sentence.

I am not sure whether we really have a high moral ground here with our venues at the Leighoak and the Bentleigh Club? If we had of been successful with our application for another venue at Fawkner, would we have been any different? As for community benefit, I am not sold that we should be required to support gambling programs, but junior football clinics in the local areas would seem to be a Win-Win for the community!

Reality is that these mini casinos keep a lot of clubs afloat.

There are responsible gambling services, and these environments treat adults as they are: free-thinking adults.

This country is filled with prudes. Everything needs to be taxed or banned, and then 20 years later the same people that wanted it banned want it "reformed" for tax revenue. It's a vicious cycle of stupidity. 

I know Casey was granted a porkies licence but could not come up with the funds, I would've rang Casey Council asked if we could purchase it if they agreed sell Bentleigh make millions and then more millions in Cranbourne , it's all about locations with those machines if we had a gaming room at Casey and it was similar to trios at the racecourse the club would make millions.Before I get bombed I can't stand the things it's just a place for seniors to give there pensions back there a blight on society.

Edited June 7, 20169 yr by Middymalt

7 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Joking in bad taste aside, whilst Victoria underwent some changes during the Kennett era that were required (i.e. council amalgamations, scrapping state owned merchant banks), one of the sadder things that happened during that time is that Victoria moved further away (and continues to move away) from actually producing things of value (cars, steel, textiles) and closer to a vapid and soulless society that creates wealth from a service economy, leisure activities and entertainment.

We went "away from it" because we couldn't compete with Asia and the demand for locally produced cars wasn't there.  

It was ridiculous that the car industry was subsidised by taxpayers for so long.

17 clubs are propped up by pokies. Many, perhaps most, wouldn't survive without them. State govt gets a big chunk of revenue from gambling, somewhere between 15-20% of total, I believe. Would struggle to be solvent if not. Sad really.

Edited June 7, 20169 yr by Moonshadow

23 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

17 clubs are propped up by pokies. Many, perhaps most, wouldn't survive without them. State govt gets a big chunk of revenue from gambling, somewhere between 15-20% of total, I believe. Would struggle to be solvent if not. Sad really.

At least the State government can re-invest it in infrastructure, education, etc (something that can benefit the broader public). Football clubs not so much. If football clubs need to profit off of terrible life circumstance in order to remain an AFL club - then something is seriously wrong with the AFL system. I don't know what the answer is, but if the AFL cannot see what is wrong with that, then perhaps we need to remove some of those at the top (making the big decisions).

Edited June 7, 20169 yr by KingDingAling

31 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

At least the State government can re-invest it in infrastructure, education, etc (something that can benefit the broader public). Football clubs not so much. If football clubs need to profit off of terrible life circumstance in order to remain an AFL club - then something is seriously wrong with the AFL system. I don't know what the answer is, but if the AFL cannot see what is wrong with that, then perhaps we need to remove some of those at the top (making the big decisions).

Setting aside the morality of poker machines, what makes this 'pokie profits' story more appalling is that AFL clubs namely, Carlton, Hawthorn and Collingwood are syphoning the profit that is supposed to go back into the local community, to their own benefit - the example given was Carlton improving facilities at their own club grounds.  It is not illegal as the problem is the way the law is worded but nonetheless it is against the 'spirit' of the agreements and the AFL should read them the riot act.

I hope MFC is not doing the same with profits.

Edited June 7, 20169 yr by Lucifer's Hero

32 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

17 clubs are propped up by pokies. Many, perhaps most, wouldn't survive without them. State govt gets a big chunk of revenue from gambling, somewhere between 15-20% of total, I believe. Would struggle to be solvent if not. Sad really.

Not sure all 17 are - are the WA clubs allowed to have pokies, I thought it was banned in WA?

Realistically they should ban them again, they not only drain pensions back from those who can't afford it and create financial, mental health, family and domestic violence issues they also turn what used to be great community centres with live music into wastelands. BUt while they're legal I'd rather the MFC profit from them than Bruce Mathieson or whoever else owns the things.

54 minutes ago, ProDee said:

We went "away from it" because we couldn't compete with Asia and the demand for locally produced cars wasn't there.  

It was ridiculous that the car industry was subsidised by taxpayers for so long.

We "couldn't compete with Asia" because the government signed our sovereignty away and removed the protections we had created for these local industries.

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

We "couldn't compete with Asia" because the government signed our sovereignty away and removed the protections we had created for these local industries.

Free market works best.

It's not up to government and taxpayers to make an industry work.

5 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Free market works best.

It's not up to government and taxpayers to make an industry work.

Surely you are not advocating for a true free market. Heroin dealers in the main street, child prostitution and exploitation no I'm sorry PD we need some controls not a free market, then it is 50 shades of grey, how much control is appropriate and how much is too much. I am anti pokies, if you think the community needs them then make them not for profit.  

2 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Free market works best.

It's not up to government and taxpayers to make an industry work.

Perfect example of indoctrinated ideology. "Free market works best" is just a faith-based sound bite that is not supported by any evidence, just like "trickle down economics" and "Jesus will return".

It's not about making an "industry" work, it's about making an economy and society work. It seems it's only OK for government and taxpayers to make certain industries work but not others.

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Perfect example of indoctrinated ideology. "Free market works best" is just a faith-based sound bite that is not supported by any evidence, just like "trickle down economics" and "Jesus will return".

It's not about making an "industry" work, it's about making an economy and society work. It seems it's only OK for government and taxpayers to make certain industries work but not others.

Just a general belief.  There are exceptions to everything.

Not about to start having a D&M.

But no, taxpayers funded the car industry for way too long.

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

 

Yes, that reinforces your argument. 

From Wikipedia:-

A free market is a system in which the prices for goods and services are determined by the open market and consumers, in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority. It is a result of a need being, then the need being met.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market

 

Edit:- I note the ProDee removed his pointless post. This makes this post less pertinent. However I shall leave it as it does show why there is potential for problems with a true free market as I indicated earlier. I note that ProDee is not interested in a D&M possibly because facts are involved.

Edited June 8, 20169 yr by ManDee