But honestly, will Dawes be of any use in the backline? He's been an underwhelming key forward, a major transition into a key back is a tough ask. Whilst he has a big body and can run hard, I do not believe disposal under pressure is a strength. And I won't even talk about marking. By all means sit him in the backline at Casey for 5-6 weeks and see what he can do, but not immediately in the seniors.

2 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

'We messed it up at selection' - is code for 'we selected kids that didn't do what they planned or promised'.  

That is, with hindsight, the selections were poor, because beforehand there was an expectation that the team would be able to do their jobs.

Terrible pressure in the forward half allowed them to walk out of our backline (every time) - how many times did they go coast to coast?

They spread so much better than us.  We got sucked into contests only to see it slip out-and away.

They smashed us in the contest and second effort.  The niggle was definitely part of this strategy.

Forward line looked good, but a few blokes had off days.

This was a reality check game.  At out best, we play pretty exciting footy.  However, we are a season or two away from finals, and this game underlines why.  We are certainly heading in the right direction though.

Think we may have held off a couple of changes for next week that we should have made this week. Hawks are vulnerable, but not to the team we put out there yesterday.  Think there will be a raft of changes, including some additional height.

 

Are you saying the Hawks are 'gettable', Chris? It'll be a 5-10 goal loss next week.

4 hours ago, ProDee said:

The game-plan is a work in progress and stills needs plenty of tightening.  If a couple of players (even one) get caught out of position then we get opened up like a can of sardines.

We lack a couple of clean big bodied mids.  Oliver and Brayshaw will be those players.  

Hogan needs another marking forward to take the heat off him.  He's an incredible young player.

Bugg has his fans.  I don't rate him.

Neal-Bullen is a fumbler.  He's just not a clean footballer and makes dodgy decisions under pressure.  He's young, but should return to Casey.

And the less said about Newton, Oscar (so slow and awkward), Kent, Kennedy, Tyson the better.

We'll be a better team when Trengove, Oliver, Brayshaw, Salem, vandenBerg and one of Dawes/Pedersen are fit and impacting games. Those first 5 named are talented and that's a lot of talent out of the team.  Never underestimate talent.  

 

You can have all the talent in the world but if you don't bring effort, it means nothing.

The times we've played well and executed the game plan, we've given great effort particularly forward defensive.

Yesterday it was non-existent from what I viewed.

The Hawks - They are not unbeatable this year.  My point is that the team on the park yesterday wouldn't be able to beat them, though.  Our best this year would give them a run.

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

Call me a sucker, but I think we'll go okay next week.  I think we'll make at least 4-5 changes at selection, and all of our inclusions will bring bigger bodies and more experience into the mix.  Dawes, Trengove, Grimes, Oliver and VDB will all be around the mark for selection this week, and probably Dunn as well.  All 6 of these give us those bigger bodies around the contest, while most give us that added experience as well.

I'm not suggesting we'll win, far from it, but I'd like to think some of the inclusions will allow us to match Hawthorn in most areas next week.

I could be a sucker too

I agree that we should bring in bigger bodies and more experience, combined with our best young bodies who are wanting to give their best against the best. Rest some for the following games. Viney may have an enforced rest.

We need to use the whole squad as they are all  so young and learning. They need the exposure to the pace and intensity of senior comp but also we need to recognise that they cant compete at that level every week.

I think the selection problem is knowing on Thursday whos going to be really focused at game time Must be the hardest part of the coaches job.

I just hope we can match them in some aspects and not get blown out of the water. Time for our better experienced players to show what they can do and for the younger players to see what they will have to do,

3 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Call me a sucker, but I think we'll go okay next week.  I think we'll make at least 4-5 changes at selection, and all of our inclusions will bring bigger bodies and more experience into the mix.  Dawes, Trengove, Grimes, Oliver and VDB will all be around the mark for selection this week, and probably Dunn as well.  All 6 of these give us those bigger bodies around the contest, while most give us that added experience as well.

I'm not suggesting we'll win, far from it, but I'd like to think some of the inclusions will allow us to match Hawthorn in most areas next week.

Sucker!

We have heard it before about making changes at selection but it really hasn't happened.  

Hopefully Wise it happens this week as u have suggested. 

4 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

Are you saying the Hawks are 'gettable', Chris? It'll be a 5-10 goal loss next week.

Leaning towards a 5+10 goal loss personally. If we give THEM the same paddock it will get very ugly

21 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Leaning towards a 5+10 goal loss personally. If we give THEM the same paddock it will get very ugly

Yep, agreed.

Bad bad loss to PA in the context of the season. Hawks, Pies, Sydney before the bye, wow it's about to get ugly again.

if only our senior guys had the mongrel to scrape out a win and lead for once it would be wonderful, always too reliant on our young guys to get the job done.  Jones whilst a warrior gives it up too often, and just bombs his kicks. 

Garland is finished, Dunn not much better, Grimes too slow...etc etc.

It will be the young guys who lift this club.  Until then we watch the inconsistency with much frustration.

Dawes will not work as a defender. It just will not work. Too slow, not good enough of a mark, won't be good enough in transition into attack.

He can still provide us something in 2016 as a forward, might even be this week (we must pick either him or Pedersen as the third tall forward/second ruck). But it will not be as a defender. We need to put VFL time into Frost in that regard (Dunn might pick up the new plan at some point too).

11 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I agree with everything above, PD, except for the bolded part.  I think Tommy Bugg has been one of our most consistent players so far this year.  He might not be the greatest user of the footy but he runs hard all day, sticks his tackles and finds the footy as well.  I think he is underrated by some on here.

Problem with Bugg is that when he's not tackling, like yesterday (1 tackle all day), he adds precious little to the side. He gets under opposition players' skin, sure, but he doesn't really damage opponents because he can't really kick, he's not a goal-kicker, he doesn't have overly-good speed.

IMO, he turns it over so much that if his tackling/harassing game isn't at a high level, he's a nothing player. That's a tough act to maintain for 22 weeks.

Just now, titan_uranus said:

Dawes will not work as a defender. It just will not work. Too slow, not good enough of a mark, won't be good enough in transition into attack.

He can still provide us something in 2016 as a forward, might even be this week (we must pick either him or Pedersen as the third tall forward/second ruck). But it will not be as a defender. We need to put VFL time into Frost in that regard (Dunn might pick up the new plan at some point too).

Problem with Bugg is that when he's not tackling, like yesterday (1 tackle all day), he adds precious little to the side. He gets under opposition players' skin, sure, but he doesn't really damage opponents because he can't really kick, he's not a goal-kicker, he doesn't have overly-good speed.

IMO, he turns it over so much that if his tackling/harassing game isn't at a high level, he's a nothing player. That's a tough act to maintain for 22 weeks.

He still had 21 touches at 85%, which means he isn't missing that many targets, and he is still working hard to make contests and provide something for the side, a trait that was sorely lacking in many on Saturday.

He is no world beater, he is merely a foot soldier, but he is a foot soldier who does his job and is underrated by some on this site for the role he was recruited to play.

Outbullied on the day, will be interesting to see how the Pies go against PA this week leading into QB.

We're still 9th!

I'm more shocked that House of Bolton is also 5 - 5

4 hours ago, 3Dee said:

Outbullied on the day, will be interesting to see how the Pies go against PA this week leading into QB.

We're still 9th!

I'm more shocked that House of Bolton is also 5 - 5

House of Bolton will be 6-5 next week when they beat Brisbane and overtake us.

25 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

House of Bolton will be 6-5 next week when they beat Brisbane and overtake us.

could be 7-5 with St Kilda the week after.... Giants then Collingwood they could easily be 8-6 

Found this quite interesting. While I dont take much notice of the AFL player ratings, look at who the 4 are who are at the bottom, who usually are at the top. 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cjh2ph6UUAAOE7A.jpg:large 

Viney, Jones, Tyson and Vince. The dots are their season average. Says a lot about how we play when our engine is not effective (even if they are getting the ball).