Fox Footy Roundtable - Melbourne

[Grimes Times 1,278]

44 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

 

I think Richmond will regret being manipulated/pushed into giving Hardwick a contract extension and wouldn't be surprised to see pressure rising on them to sack him by the end of this season, contract or not.

I don't think he is a good AFL level coach by a long way and possibly the worst match day coach in the game.

I think he can build good player relationships but is blinded by loyalty to them, it's the only reason I can see that he hasn't made changes to his list after continued poor finals performances.

We will be moving up now whilst the Tiges move back in the pack and it wouldn't surprise me to see us pass them this season.

They have no midfield depth and of their guns in this area, Kotchin doesn't hurt, Martin is a better forward and Delidio a better floater which is also what Ellis is.

They have one quality key forward and one quality key back...they lose either of those and it's season over.

Hardwick was summed up for me when I watched him on the bench in there last NAB game when he was pulling players off. Things weren't going well for his team and he was all frustrated, angry and waving his hands around. If thats a reflection of him in the box when things dont go well Richmond can have him for the next 3 years. 

[Gator 17,357]

15 hours ago, Deeoldfart said:

Each of the 4 panelists was asked who they thought would be the best of our current group over their careers (paraphrasing).  Interesting that they came up with 4 different players, as follows:

Dunstall:   Hogan

Mooney:   Gawn

Johnson:   Viney

King:   Petracca

I like that!

That's not quite right.  They were asked "whose number would you have on your back ?".

An important distinction. 

[P-man 13,366]

3 hours ago, Clintosaurus said:

This article made me laugh - we are in the leftovers playing for pride but GC aren't.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-16/what-do-the-afls-leftovers-have-to-play-for-in-2016/7247728?section=sport

This is a perfect illustration of how we could send shockwaves through the comp this year if we keep a healthy list and the game plan clicks together. Imagine the reaction of the dill who grouped us with Carlton pre-season if we manage to make finals.

The next few years are going to be fun

[Spirit of 26 261]

16 hours ago, hardtack said:

This must come as a major disappointment for those who have been crying out about half of those cited above hating the Dees and never having a good thing to say about the club.

When you play half decent footy you'll receive half decent compliments.

[Chris 2,892]

15 hours ago, Redleg said:

How does that happen when we finish 13th?

I can think of plenty of conspiracies to support this happening but not one reason that would stand up to any pressure. Maybe it is all a conspiracy after all. 

[Dees2014 2,377]

15 minutes ago, P-man said:

This is a perfect illustration of how we could send shockwaves through the comp this year if we keep a healthy list and the game plan clicks together. Imagine the reaction of the dill who grouped us with Carlton pre-season if we manage to make finals.

The next few years are going to be fun

I sympathise with your sentiments, but the fact remains we have done nothing yet of distinction on the field - plenty off but not yet on. When we do which I expect for most of this year (I'm predicting a top 6 finish), it will be all the sweeter to see these so call experts eat their words, although with some of them, don't bank on it!

[Skuit 10,031]

On Richmond: one club captain has nominated them as a 2016 grand finalist in the annual captain's survey. Donkey vote? Any guess who it could possibly be? Hodge?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-03-17/captains-call-is-dangerfield-for-the-brownlow

[nutbean 8,838]

1 hour ago, Grimes Times said:

Hardwick was summed up for me when I watched him on the bench in there last NAB game when he was pulling players off. 

Me too ! I thought that just isn't right !

[Delusional demon 82 1,197]

Richmond are definitely like we were in 05/06 just making up the numbers in the top 8, just not in the class to push into top 4, I personally don't see how they can get any more out of their list. They'll fire up and beat a hawthorn in say r18 and lose the following week to a much lesser side and then the same on field leaders choke in an elimination final. Best case for them is 5th and worst they drop to around 10th . If they drop out of the 8 then it will get messy over at tigerland,  they still like to eat their own so to speak even when the team is doing ok. Whilst we've been less than perfect ourselves I think our offfield position is now much more stable in house. Thanks PJ!!

Actually at least when we make top 8 we often at least win in the first week of the finals, something the tiges haven't managed.  

I have no doubt that even though we stuffed up our 09-11 rebuild and they progressed on, that in the long run we will still be ahead.  No point making finals unless you have the potential to eventually contend for a flag 

[Slartibartfast 17,280]

3 hours ago, rjay said:

 

 

I think Richmond will regret being manipulated/pushed into giving Hardwick a contract extension and wouldn't be surprised to see pressure rising on them to sack him by the end of this season, contract or not.

I don't think he is a good AFL level coach by a long way and possibly the worst match day coach in the game.

I think he can build good player relationships but is blinded by loyalty to them, it's the only reason I can see that he hasn't made changes to his list after continued poor finals performances.

 

This from the Age article today:

Gale presented a paper to the board last December which benchmarked Hardwick against the performances of similarly placed coaches and clubs over the period of the compromised draft. It showed that Hardwick's win/loss ratio was similar to that of both Clarkson and Geelong's Mark Thompson over their first six years.

It also showed that Richmond had turned over 39 players since Hardwick joined as coach at the end of 2009 - the highest number in the AFL.

Forty one percent of the Tigers' list has been turned over since the start of 2014.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/richmond-tigers/afl-2016-damien-hardwick-resigns-with-richmond-football-club-until-2018-20160316-gnkrd6.html#ixzz438OPMV8I
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

[jnrmac 20,065]

26 minutes ago, Delusional demon 82 said:

Richmond are definitely like we were in 05/06 just making up the numbers in the top 8, just not in the class to push into top 4, I personally don't see how they can get any more out of their list. They'll fire up and beat a hawthorn in say r18 and lose the following week to a much lesser side and then the same on field leaders choke in an elimination final. Best case for them is 5th and worst they drop to around 10th . If they drop out of the 8 then it will get messy over at tigerland,  they still like to eat their own so to speak even when the team is doing ok. Whilst we've been less than perfect ourselves I think our offfield position is now much more stable in house. Thanks PJ!!

Actually at least when we make top 8 we often at least win in the first week of the finals, something the tiges haven't managed.  

I have no doubt that even though we stuffed up our 09-11 rebuild and they progressed on, that in the long run we will still be ahead.  No point making finals unless you have the potential to eventually contend for a flag 

At least we won a final which is more than the Toiges have done for a few generations....( I missed yr reference to that sorry)

Edited March 17, 2016 by jnrmac

[Delusional demon 82 1,197]

Comparing to clarkos first 6 years there was already 1 flag.  Cats had a flag in bombers 7th or 8th year. Don't see the tiges getting anywhere near grand final day 

Sometimes the stats can be misleading...

[Adam The God 30,259]

12 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

This from the Age article today:

Gale presented a paper to the board last December which benchmarked Hardwick against the performances of similarly placed coaches and clubs over the period of the compromised draft. It showed that Hardwick's win/loss ratio was similar to that of both Clarkson and Geelong's Mark Thompson over their first six years.

It also showed that Richmond had turned over 39 players since Hardwick joined as coach at the end of 2009 - the highest number in the AFL.

Forty one percent of the Tigers' list has been turned over since the start of 2014.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/richmond-tigers/afl-2016-damien-hardwick-resigns-with-richmond-football-club-until-2018-20160316-gnkrd6.html#ixzz438OPMV8I
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

That's outrageous. I had no idea they'd turned their list over as much as that.

Edited March 17, 2016 by AdamFarr

[Delusional demon 82 1,197]

4 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

At least we won a final which is more than the Toiges have done for a few generations....

Agree totally,  we've won a final since their last in 2001. And also same goes for essendon who haven't won a final since 04 (unfortunately against us)

I do think 04,05 and even 06 we were pretenders.  2002 less so we shld have made a prelim but I don't think we would have gone much further. 

 

 

[3Dee 1,153]

The segment was a bit lacklustre, basically David King waffling on for 50% of the time about how the Demons will fail because they're reverting back to Roos pure defensive gamestyle. Really David? You think that's what will happen? 

[What 18,810]

We can finish on top of Richmond and I fully expect to beat them this season.  Would love to have played them twice.

[Redleg 40,926]

29 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

This from the Age article today:

It also showed that Richmond had turned over 39 players since Hardwick joined as coach at the end of 2009 - the highest number in the AFL.

Forty one percent of the Tigers' list has been turned over since the start of 2014.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/richmond-tigers/afl-2016-damien-hardwick-resigns-with-richmond-football-club-until-2018-20160316-gnkrd6.html#ixzz438OPMV8I
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

We have turned over 39 players since 2009 as well. If it is meant that 39 players on the list in 2009 are no longer on the list.

If it is actual numbers of players added and then gone, the number is much higher.

I would guess that we have turned over more than 70% of our list since 2014. 30 players on the list at the start of 2014 are not on the list today.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Redleg

[Skuit 10,031]

The board asked the wrong question; 'whether the coach of six years had taken the Tigers as far as he could.' Should read; 'whether the coach of six years had taken the Tigers as far as they can be taken.'

On another note, do you think Caro is in the gun for the Fairfax paper-cuts? Please please be so.

 

[Its Time for Another 4,218]

21 minutes ago, Skuit said:

The board asked the wrong question; 'whether the coach of six years had taken the Tigers as far as he could.' Should read; 'whether the coach of six years had taken the Tigers as far as they can be taken.'

On another note, do you think Caro is in the gun for the Fairfax paper-cuts? Please please be so.

 

Your excitement should depend on who she would be replaced with. If it was another Slobbo, I'd take her any day of the week. Slim pickings at the moment. Who would be your preference for chief football writer to replace her? 

[Slartibartfast 17,280]

23 minutes ago, Skuit said:

On another note, do you think Caro is in the gun for the Fairfax paper-cuts? Please please be so.

 

Here's a suggestion.  Don't read her if you don't like her.

 

[Skuit 10,031]

I don't read her. It's a personal vendetta that drives my desire for her to lose her job. 

[Maple Demon 449]

As long as we finish higher on the ladder than Collingwood, I'm happy.

[Akum 2,660]

19 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

...

He justified it easily with the statement that there are a lot of good teams, and it's a perfectly fair point. The top 12 were well clear of us last year and so many of them (Coll, GWS, Geel) had strong off seasons. 

Simply there are good teams with more experienced talent than we have. 

... 

Agree, but I think where we might gain on these teams is that they've been combining well, and had effective game plans and good slick ball movement, for years.

We haven't had any of that until now. If we can keep our shape together under more pressure that we've faced in the NAB games - and avoid getting jumped in the first quarter, not to mention most of the teeth-grinding turnovers - we could improve a to faster than those sides.

[Deecisive 1,709]

injuries will still play a part on which sides are going to go up and who goes down, as usual.  The tigers suffered quite a few injuries in the NAB cup match a couple more will really hurt their chances.  While collingwood has looked reasonable, I still think they may have trouble kicking goals, the dogs were killing them until the just stopped and collingwood ran over the top. I think we can score 10+ wins and thankfully we have a bit more depth than in previous years, but injuries to some of our key players could keep our wins down.  Last year we through games away that we could have won and won games that no one gave a chance to win.  This year we should be able to show that we have turned the corner and will be a threat in future years.

[grazman 7,436]

I always find it interesting to hear other people's views on footy supported by evidence - even if I don't always agree with their interpretation.  I think it's harder to pick who will slide than who will climb.  Interestingly over the course of the shows different panelists made sound arguments about why sides like Freo, Sydney, North and Richmond might slide and why sides like Gold Coast and St Kilda might not rise.  There seems to be a lot more uncertainty about who can make the eight.  Overall I found the sentiment around Melbourne a little more bullish than I expected (even on the back of a good NAB).   The one piece of information that I found exciting was our list profile. 16th youngest and 16th experienced. I think once we get 50+ games into Hogan, Petracca, Brayshaw, Oliver etc we will be hosing down expectations rather than being miffed at being overlooked.

As a quick aside one of the panelists made an interesting point. Geelong have recruited Zac Smith to ruck, yet have Vardy, Clark, Blicavs  and Stanley as ruck man ... any chance they have overcompensated for injury prone talls at the sake of other areas on their list?