STMJ #894

Very good post . 

1 hour ago, Chris said:

Exactly my point. I have never said he is a good senior coach but to ignore the development aspect of what he did at the dogs is wrong. You will also note that I said Beveridge has done an outstanding job. 

Now you are twisting it. By that logic Jade Rawlings is reposible for the team's performance this past two years. Your argument doesn't bear scrutiny.

28 minutes ago, Chris said:

If our senior players had developed as I am sure Roos hoped they would (Dunn, Garland, Grimes, Dawes) then I think our Win Loss ratio would look very different to what it does. They didn't, they aren't getting played, and we are going with the kids who will play the right way.

So you are now saying that Roos is a dud coach? Because surely that's his job?

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Now you are twisting it. By that logic Jade Rawlings is reposible for the team's performance this past two years. Your argument doesn't bear scrutiny.

Not twisting at all junior, actually being consistent in what I am saying. You simply refuse to actually accept that there is an argument there to be had. And yes, Jade Rawlings is partially responsible for the performance of the team, as is every coach. 

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

So you are now saying that Roos is a dud coach? Because surely that's his job?

You seriously accuse me of twisting things and then post this tripe. Not even worth this response. 

11 hours ago, deespicable me said:

Equalisation is a crock of rats entrails.

That plick Frawley said pay me $700- k or I'm gone and went to Hawthorn for about $350- k. Thanks ####!

Thats what they do. They tell the free agents they're interested in "come and play in a decent team, play finals, enjoy the glory, but don't think you can command big money. It's on our terms or don't bother."

It's all very well for Hawthorn and a couple of other big clubs but the smaller clubs having to pay their own players more money to keep them will keep the premierships in the big clubs coffers for a long while to come.

Gil (who I believe is an empty headed puppet and a political appointment that will just pay lip service to "equalisation" in the interests of Hawthorn) has done nothing to change the alarming direction the game is heading. 

The AFL has to ask itself a basic question. Is the game for the fans?

If the answer is yes then how much joy is enough for the Hawthorn supporters? When are they going to meaningfully intervene to share the joy of the game around to the other supporters?

Shouldn't the charter of the AFL be to create the game in such a fashion that over a ten year period we see at least 15 different teams playing off in a Grand Final? Not easy to do but shouldn't they be at least trying to achieve such an ideal?

Where is there someone, anyone in the media railing against this ridiculous monopoly.

Melbourne will never get there. Never.

Sometimes I wish they'd just fold.

Sorry about that, but it is the way I feel.

 

Wow MFCSS at its finest.

You do realise that we got pick 3 - Angus Brayshaw, as compensation for Frawley's departure.

Only 10 years ago Hawthorn were struggling and Kennett wanted to sack Clarkson - things can turn around.

Mods, a lot of this discussion is interesting but is clearly in the wrong thread and is now quite extensive. Can it be moved to a new thread?

If Tom requests a trade at years end, what is he worth? 

i personally think a key position player of his age/quality/upside is worth a first round pick and a fringe player.

will be very interesting to see what he does over the next 6-7 weeks.

4 minutes ago, Abe said:

If Tom requests a trade at years end, what is he worth? 

i personally think a key position player of his age/quality/upside is worth a first round pick and a fringe player.

will be very interesting to see what he does over the next 6-7 weeks.

For the past 2 years has been mentioned as a potential AA, but has never really performed for the entire season.. He is young, durable and certainly a great athlete, with elite judgement/marking/spoiling.. I would say he is worth a top 10 pick, not sure whether we would get any player in return.

21 minutes ago, SPC said:

For the past 2 years has been mentioned as a potential AA, but has never really performed for the entire season.. He is young, durable and certainly a great athlete, with elite judgement/marking/spoiling.. I would say he is worth a top 10 pick, not sure whether we would get any player in return.

Definitely worth a first rounder at least. A top ten pick would be a decent result, but losing Tom will set us back a way, unless we can replace him with a similar player... which isn't likely.

37 minutes ago, Abe said:

If Tom requests a trade at years end, what is he worth? 

i personally think a key position player of his age/quality/upside is worth a first round pick and a fringe player.

will be very interesting to see what he does over the next 6-7 weeks.

if it was dodoro they would be wanting a first rounder plus a second rounder (or equivalent) as a minimum

10 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

if it was dodoro they would be wanting a first rounder plus a second rounder (or equivalent) as a minimum

That's not Dodoro, he would want both first and second rounds picks from this year and next, and 2 gun midfielders!

18 minutes ago, Chris said:

That's not Dodoro, he would want both first and second rounds picks from this year and next, and 2 gun midfielders!

i did say minimum

1 hour ago, Abe said:

If Tom requests a trade at years end, what is he worth? 

i personally think a key position player of his age/quality/upside is worth a first round pick and a fringe player.

will be very interesting to see what he does over the next 6-7 weeks.

350-400 Unless there is RAPID Improvement re his disposal and his judgment he is not worth a cent more!

Just now, picket fence said:

350-400 Unless there is RAPID Improvement re his disposal and his judgment he is not worth a cent more!

You're confusing trades with contracts.

27 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

You're confusing trades with contracts.

No he means a pick somewhere in the 350 to 400 range.  Probably omitted to say Rookie Draft.

Now I do hope I'm wrong, but reckon TMac is gone now.

Of the players we'd want to retain we've pretty much got them all.  
Vince extended.  Jetta.  Watts.  Kent.  Garlett.  

Those still remaining OOC if I haven't missed anything:

Dawes, Trenners, Newton, TMac, OMac, Pedersen, MJones, Terlich, Grimes. 

With it so deep in the season, there is no way the club wouldn't have given TMac every opportunity to re-sign.  Wouldn't surprise me if OMac is gone too.

I still remember Brad Green signing his contract extension one year during trade week when it was rumored he was going to the filth a few years back.

T Mac is an interesting one.  For someone who may be classed as a 'high profile' free agent, we are hearing next to nothing about him, good or bad.  It probably means that is gone as it's rare for someone like him to leave it this late, but there hasn't really been any rumblings about it either.  It's strange really.

The way Tom talks in these two stories sounds like he is staying.  I also found it touching how he worries about his 'little' bro Oscar, when he gets injured.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-07-28/mcdonald-proud-to-notch-up-100-games

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-07-28/big-mac-proud-to-watch-over-junior

Have been doing a bit of checking and Tom has achieved far more at the age of 23 than either of his 'star' contemporaries (Rance and Hurley) did so early in their careers.  Any comparisons should be based on when the latter were Tom's current age of 23.  He may well will surpass them before long.  Certainly will before he gets to their current age of 26!

Tom is a must, must keep and hope he signs up soon.

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Edited July 28, 20169 yr by Lucifer's Hero

5 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

T Mac is an interesting one.  For someone who may be classed as a 'high profile' free agent, we are hearing next to nothing about him, good or bad.  It probably means that is gone as it's rare for someone like him to leave it this late, but there hasn't really been any rumblings about it either.  It's strange really.

Tom isn't an FA, Wise.

Maybe, we aren't hearing much because he is staying?

Edited July 28, 20169 yr by Lucifer's Hero

Just now, Lucifer's Hero said:

Tom isn't an FA, Wise.

Sorry, I knew I was off the mark there.  Cheers LH.

Have now moved past any form of emotional investment in individual members of the playing group.

Clubs do not show loyalty so I cannot  expect it in return from players. (Just like the workplace.)

Hopefully we can make it a good place to work and thus keep some but as in any workplace the high flyers will always be interested in the next upwards move.

In my world all players would be paid a base salary (a good one and there could be some flexibilty) and then there would be a bonus system that distributes the pool. Businesses have had such pools for years and while not perfect you would not for example have the Dawes situation. The onus is then on the players to perform. If they do they will be rewarded very well.

Of course some player managers may not like that system but it is the fairest if not the best for some

Just seems to me that maybe they want to put a totally unbeatable offer to Hoges and want to keep Tmac too ,because with the both of them in the pocket we are on the rise for sure. However if Toms gone crazy by way of demands it complicates .

Interesting sort of situation. Hope Hoges and Tom sit down and have a coffee together one day and sort things out. Could be a truly great outcome for a lot of people.

 

 

 

I reckon we'll get both Jesse and Tom signed up by the start of 2017. I've no information of that, just can't see either of them leaving now. We're on the rise and given our inexperienced team week in, week out, a part of me says 7 wins already this season is amazing.