it's been mentioned somewhere that a game plan can only be truly put to test against an opposition who aren't aware of many of the intricacies such as stoppage set ups, running patterns etc, etc.

Intra club games are played with both sides having full knowledge of this thereby diluting the value of the 'practice'.

1 hour ago, dee-luded said:

Tony's right,  in an even playing field all players would be whats considered under done.    but the media would scream & it would also allow other sports to fill the papers pages.  its a tangled web we've spun.

I suspect this is the main reason for playing (although not just the papers, but also other media). And it's a good reason, too. 

4 hours ago, Tony Tea said:

The AFL should abolish both pre-season competitions and pre-season practice matches. There is no need for either. The only reason they exist is because they exist. (Perhaps the AFL scratch a little money out of NAB.) There is nothing that can't be achieved in a practice match against another club that can't be achieved by in-house match practice.

Disagree - practice matches or against other clubs have existed since I have been watching the game ( a looong time). An in house practice match will always be compromised. 

You need to divide your list in two to have an inhouse practice match. I think it is important to your game plan that you have as close to your best team as possible so we have cohesion going into to the season. So that leaves you with two choices

1. play at intraclub match between your possible best 22 versus the rest which is basically a mismatch - not what you want
2. make the two teams more evenly matched as they did in the intraclub match we already had by playing some better players on both teams - this doesn't really help team cohesion and getting the game plan down with the best 22.

There are plenty of other reasons - you want your coaches to coach against opposition coaches so they can also perfect what they are doing and be critiqued by the head coach. Do players treat intraclub games seriously enough ? Viney did and even his Captain said there is a unwritten rule as to what you can do your team mates and Viney may have gotten a bit ahead of himself ( or words to that effect) so in the Captains mind you do not go about an intraclub game full pace.

If you suggesting all practice matches are banned including intraclub  - I disagree even further. I will ask you a question - we have been training the house down for years but not one premiership in recent memory ! You only improve through competition and intraclub competition is a good start but practice matches against other clubs is even better. 

 

Edited March 3, 20169 yr by nutbean

3 hours ago, Curry & Beer said:

also from an entertainment POV, the early rounds would be decidedly more 'rusty' games of footy to spectate

that's why you practice things before the actual event

 

3 hours ago, dee-luded said:

Tony's right,  in an even playing field all players would be whats considered under done.    but the media would scream & it would also allow other sports to fill the papers pages.  its a tangled web we've spun.

 

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I suspect this is the main reason for playing (although not just the papers, but also other media). And it's a good reason, too. 

I understand what you are saying and I am sure the AFL loves the extra exposure and interest and the AFL certainly don't want rusty games in round one but I don't believe this is the main driver for practice matches. 

As yet I have never heard a coach say that they don't want  practice matches ( due to injuries or any other reason). The coaches certainly have showed very tepid support for state of origin as it risked a lot in terms of injury for little reward and there is not 100% acceptance of the Irish games either ( players that would go into a Grand Final with a niggle do not do the same with the hybrid games)

 

On 3 March 2016 at 2:42 PM, nutbean said:

As yet I have never heard a coach say that they don't want  practice matches ( due to injuries or any other reason).

Grant Thomas has been bleating about them on twitter over the last 24 hours.  Says they're a waste of time and should be scrapped.  Says all you need are intra-club matches.

Many won't agree.

6 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Grant Thomas has been bleating about them on twitter over the last 24 hours.  Says they're a waste of time and should be scrapped.  Says all you need are intra-club matches.

Many won't agree.

I'm not sure I understand the need for distinction between intraclub and club vs club matches.

If the argument is to remove all practice matches prior to the season and only have match simulations at training which will reduce the risk of injury ( but not altogether remove it ) then I understand it - you remove tackling and a lot of the physical contact. 

But the risk to injury is only marginally less in my opinion from an intraclub match to club vs club as opposed to a lot more reward from playing another club. The tackling isn't as hard but tackles still go wrong and there is still physicality.

if you remove inter-club practice matches then the first 2 rounds of h&a will be a lot more flakey

High time we scratched barefoot basketball and frisbee throwing from the calendar.

4 hours ago, nutbean said:

I'm not sure I understand the need for distinction between intraclub and club vs club matches.

If the argument is to remove all practice matches prior to the season and only have match simulations at training which will reduce the risk of injury ( but not altogether remove it ) then I understand it - you remove tackling and a lot of the physical contact. 

But the risk to injury is only marginally less in my opinion from an intraclub match to club vs club as opposed to a lot more reward from playing another club. The tackling isn't as hard but tackles still go wrong and there is still physicality.

Don't cate, mate. 

Just giving you Thomas' view. 

As every year goes by these games will become less and less relevant ... some teams already treat the exercise with contempt and that will only get worse. And once the games reach a level of irrelevancy, it's only a step away from unnecessary.

2 games only is my tip with the coaches getting together to play "modified rules" when it suits ... and certain clubs may not risk their best players at all. That's the future as I see it.

As for game plans, clubs may prefer to keep that information away from preying eyes ... the sport has changed dramatically in the last 10 years and because of that, there are always unintended consequences to consider.

It's very difficult to play footy practice games in a soft manner ... in fact, more injuries might occur if the teams aren't fair dinkum (there's that golden rule that you've got more chance of getting hurt if you hang-out)

The arguments for keeping the games are sound too ... however, we've probably already lost one certain starter (Brayshaw) for the first 2 games or so and we could lose 2 or 3 more (I hope that doesn't happen of course) 

There's some old-school thinking here but maybe our sport has moved to a point where practice games are just too risky - and if they become way more irrelevant, what's the point? Those who "just want some footy" should not be part of the argument. Some here might want to go and watch the Hawks train - it's a sight to behold.

Anyway, my argument centres on having our best 12-15 players available for game 1 of the season proper - how will people view these practice games if we're missing 3 or 4? Of course, injuries can happen anytime but why increase the chances when these games aren't taken seriously anyway?

So I'm with 'Tony Tea' ... all our practice, game plans and simulated match practice can be practiced in-house. Also, there are teams that are rusty at the start of the year anyway (even with a number of practice games under their belt)

We're probably always going to play these games but more people will end up switching camps with regards to the point of these games (especially if injuries hit) And I'd trade winning the first 2 games of the season proper with 3 losses in the pre-season any day of the week. 

I posted a similar view a month ago ... here

 

Edited March 5, 20169 yr by Macca

I'll throw a spanner in the works. Just because I can.

We have been after an even season for ages. (Ie) we have eighteen teams we need 17 rounds.

The big bash has proven to be a big success.

with the extra rounds available to us by reducing the main season and the money by sponsors clambering to put money into prime time footy in this Summer / Autumn time slot. You can't help but help than have a very successful $$$$ cup to play for.

It then gives a real target for teams to play for $$$$

In the past we had the Wizard cup that the prize was a pittance and wasn't worth the risk of getting players injured.

We could have games 15 min quarters.  2 games per night.

I am sure the powers to be could work out a fair system that would enable a final 2 to to play off for the cup?

The Dees are the best for bullsh.t when telling supporters how long a player is going to be out due to injury. Just look at last year's list. Remember seeing is believing.

Those who may consider that Brayshaw's injury may not have occurred in an intraclub or at training should remember that Petracca's was in a simple marking drill at training.   And Ox knee #1

Injuries  will occur regardless

 

Edited March 5, 20169 yr by monoccular
addendum

On 03/03/2016 at 10:31 PM, ENYAW said:

The Dees are the best for bullsh.t when telling supporters how long a player is going to be out due to injury. Just look at last year's list. Remember seeing is believing.

Who did we [censored] about last year?

There was Frost, but clearly he had issues rehabbing and the 4-6 kept prolonging itself. Maybe they should've listed him as indefinite or 4-8 and explained the process in his recovery where by it was a waiting game and slowly testing out weight bearing and a frustrating cycle.

I think the news on Salem and Kent re doing hammies took a while to filter through. Otherwise almost everyone came back when predicted as far as I recall.

Someone will get to training next week or the week after and Brayshaw will either be out running laps or he won't be. Then we will know. I expect he will be.

On 3/3/2016 at 4:13 PM, Jesus Hoganshaw said:

High time we scratched barefoot basketball and frisbee throwing from the calendar.

& the 'orizontal mumba,  many a back injury is done switching out of horizontal mode.

I don't often agree with Eddie, but i do like the idea of the NAB challenge winner gaining a bonus of some kind, i wouldn't go as far as a guaranteed finals spot, but maybe 8 premiership points, that could be the difference between 4th and 5th or 9th and 8th, definitely some incentive to take it a little more seriously.

12 minutes ago, Peter Griffen said:

I don't often agree with Eddie, but i do like the idea of the NAB challenge winner gaining a bonus of some kind, i wouldn't go as far as a guaranteed finals spot, but maybe 8 premiership points, that could be the difference between 4th and 5th or 9th and 8th, definitely some incentive to take it a little more seriously.

even eddie wasn't serious. it was just click-bait to keep eddies image up

12 minutes ago, Peter Griffen said:

I don't often agree with Eddie, but i do like the idea of the NAB challenge winner gaining a bonus of some kind, i wouldn't go as far as a guaranteed finals spot, but maybe 8 premiership points, that could be the difference between 4th and 5th or 9th and 8th, definitely some incentive to take it a little more seriously.

Laughable. Why would you do that? What good comes of having serious games in February and early March. If you want that then just play 2 extra rounds and let the teams win their 8 points fair and square. Imagine missing the 8 because another team won the practice match series, you'd be furious. 

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Laughable. Why would you do that? What good comes of having serious games in February and early March. If you want that then just play 2 extra rounds and let the teams win their 8 points fair and square. Imagine missing the 8 because another team won the practice match series, you'd be furious. 

Just throwing out a suggestion on a discussion forum, ultimately they either need to add an incentive or admit it's nothing more than a practice match.

1 hour ago, Peter Griffen said:

Just throwing out a suggestion on a discussion forum, ultimately they either need to add an incentive or admit it's nothing more than a practice match.

The clubs admit they are practice matches. The League dresses them up and sells them to the media to make some extra cash. No idea why people get frustrated with that?

I wish they'd let the clubs broadcast them independently but they love the foxtel money so you have to put up with commentators faking interest. Best thing to do is not watch many games. The real stuff isn't that far away.

10 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

The clubs admit they are practice matches. The League dresses them up and sells them to the media to make some extra cash. No idea why people get frustrated with that?

I wish they'd let the clubs broadcast them independently but they love the foxtel money so you have to put up with commentators faking interest. Best thing to do is not watch many games. The real stuff isn't that far away.

I wish the clubs or afl would televise them Only on replay,  either via Club TV,  or on ABCtv.?

Then have the games at suburban VFL grounds,  or major regional grounds.  it would make for a good weekend away mr walker,  & good for grass roots footy.

the Final should be played at etihad live.

1 hour ago, Peter Griffen said:

Just throwing out a suggestion on a discussion forum, ultimately they either need to add an incentive or admit it's nothing more than a practice match.

Practise games are what they are...

1 hour ago, dee-luded said:

Then have the games at suburban VFL grounds,  or major regional grounds.  it would make for a good weekend away mr walker,  & good for grass roots footy.

Not sure what's different to what they are doing already re regional and suburban grounds. Which always seem to be packed out.

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

Not sure what's different to what they are doing already re regional and suburban grounds. Which always seem to be packed out.

 

what I'm getting at is,  take it back to how the Sunday VFL games were,  a real community feel,  cheap gate prices,  cheap food,  buy your ticket at the gate,  no bookings.  & to have more regional games so people can make the trek up country,  or those from remote country can trek down to they're region center for the game.  the preseason comp should run for a month, with a 5th week for the final at etihad.

 

that gives 4 weekends? I think,  for country folk & city folk to enjoy the fine weather & to get away,   & create a great atmosphere for the footy weekend away.   

We play too many games in the big stadiums.   Leave them for the H&A games.

 

preseason time should be to give back to the footy faithful,  right around the state,  Live...  with televised games only replayed hours later.

Edited March 5, 20169 yr by dee-luded

49 minutes ago, dee-luded said:

 

what I'm getting at is,  take it back to how the Sunday VFL games were,  a real community feel,  cheap gate prices,  cheap food,  buy your ticket at the gate,  no bookings.  & to have more regional games so people can make the trek up country,  or those from remote country can trek down to they're region center for the game.  the preseason comp should run for a month, with a 5th week for the final at etihad.

 

that gives 4 weekends? I think,  for country folk & city folk to enjoy the fine weather & to get away,   & create a great atmosphere for the footy weekend away.   

We play too many games in the big stadiums.   Leave them for the H&A games.

 

preseason time should be to give back to the footy faithful,  right around the state,  Live...  with televised games only replayed hours later.

They are PRACTISE GAMES like qualifying in F1

why do you want 5 weeks of it with a Final at Etihad?

they are PRACTISE GAMES to tweak the list and test out ideas...