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Training - Monday 18th January, 2016


Caligula's Cohort!
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On the height thing:

Allen Jakovich was 187cm.

Ablett Senior was 185cm.

Jason Dunstall was 188cm

Matthew Lloyd was 192cm

Garry Lyon was 193cm

I am often amazed at how the game has changed in so little time.  Imagine if these guys were playing today.  We never would have seen the genius of Ablett or Jakovich as forwards because they would have been pushed into midfield roles and told to get fitter.  Lloyd and Lyon would both be considered borderline as key forwards, probably more of the high half-forward link-up player.  I doubt Dunstall would be given a chance at all with his build.  He clearly couldn't play as a mid, but there's no way they'd let him be a lead-up full forward at his height. 

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9 hours ago, The Great Pretender said:

I don't think he was comparing their physiques but rather stating the fact that Lockett's about the same height as those two.

Nobody really doubts Lockett's attributes. After all, he and Jason Dunstall won Brownlow Medals and kicked plenty of tons.

The way the game's changed, key forwards these days need to be taller than Lockett's 191cm but Plugger would still be a great footballer today because of his strength and skills.

if plugger was playing today id chuck him in the middle at ball ups  as a pinch hitting clearance machine!

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7 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

On the height thing:

Allen Jakovich was 187cm.

Ablett Senior was 185cm.

Jason Dunstall was 188cm

Matthew Lloyd was 192cm

Garry Lyon was 193cm

I am often amazed at how the game has changed in so little time.  Imagine if these guys were playing today.  We never would have seen the genius of Ablett or Jakovich as forwards because they would have been pushed into midfield roles and told to get fitter.  Lloyd and Lyon would both be considered borderline as key forwards, probably more of the high half-forward link-up player.  I doubt Dunstall would be given a chance at all with his build.  He clearly couldn't play as a mid, but there's no way they'd let him be a lead-up full forward at his height. 

The great John Coleman was 185cm 80kg 

and Royce Hart was 185cm 86kg 

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8 hours ago, daisycutter said:

The great John Coleman was 185cm 80kg 

and Royce Hart was 185cm 86kg 

And while we're at it, Darrel Baldock who was St Kilda's captain in its only premiership in 1966 played mainly at CHF and was 179cm 84kg but he was an absolute freak.

I commented recently about the fact that the current generation of players are generally taller and faster than those of the past, an evolution due to a number of factors relating probably to modern diet, fitness and even psychological factors. I wonder if there are any experts out there who can precisely explain the phenomenon?

Sam Weideman is 196cm 90kg (even if he's stopped growing, he'll probably get to at least 100kg after a couple of seasons in the game). The pundits compare him with Matty Pavlich but the Pav is 192cm 99kg - a fair difference there. Yet, I can remember Sam's grandfather playing at CHF and CHB for Collingwood. He was strong, a great mark and seemed like a giant on the field. His biography gives his stats as 187cm 96kg.

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1 hour ago, Whispering_Jack said:

And while we're at it, Darrel Baldock who was St Kilda's captain in its only premiership in 1966 played mainly at CHF and was 179cm 84kg but he was an absolute freak.

I commented recently about the fact that the current generation of players are generally taller and faster than those of the past, an evolution due to a number of factors relating probably to modern diet, fitness and even psychological factors. I wonder if there are any experts out there who can precisely explain the phenomenon?

Sam Weideman is 196cm 90kg (even if he's stopped growing, he'll probably get to at least 100kg after a couple of seasons in the game). The pundits compare him with Matty Pavlich but the Pav is 192cm 99kg - a fair difference there. Yet, I can remember Sam's grandfather playing at CHF and CHB for Collingwood. He was strong, a great mark and seemed like a giant on the field. His biography gives his stats as 187cm 96kg.

that's true about baldock, jack., but even during his playing time he was considered a very unusual height for chf

and yes murray weideman was considered a brute in his day, despite being just under 6'2". still 96kg is not to be scoffed at even today

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4 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

And while we're at it, Darrel Baldock who was St Kilda's captain in its only premiership in 1966 played mainly at CHF and was 179cm 84kg but he was an absolute freak.

I commented recently about the fact that the current generation of players are generally taller and faster than those of the past, an evolution due to a number of factors relating probably to modern diet, fitness and even psychological factors. I wonder if there are any experts out there who can precisely explain the phenomenon?

Sam Weideman is 196cm 90kg (even if he's stopped growing, he'll probably get to at least 100kg after a couple of seasons in the game). The pundits compare him with Matty Pavlich but the Pav is 192cm 99kg - a fair difference there. Yet, I can remember Sam's grandfather playing at CHF and CHB for Collingwood. He was strong, a great mark and seemed like a giant on the field. His biography gives his stats as 187cm 96kg.

I am no medico, but one semi-plausible idea I have heard is that immunising kids means that they no longer get measles, German measles, chicken pox etc. Back in my day, it was a rite of passage to have all these and more as a young kid. Immunising means this no longer happens, so kids spend more time healthy and growing. There is presumably no way to verify this, but it is as plausible as anything I have heard. 

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3 minutes ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

I am no medico, but one semi-plausible idea I have heard is that immunising kids means that they no longer get measles, German measles, chicken pox etc. Back in my day, it was a rite of passage to have all these and more as a young kid. Immunising means this no longer happens, so kids spend more time healthy and growing. There is presumably no way to verify this, but it is as plausible as anything I have heard. 

I reckon it's also simple maths - there is a much larger population these days, therefore a lot more blokes who are in the big/tall category, and these are the ones with an advantage on the field so these are the ones that make it to the AFL (although there are more teams now too so that cancels it out somewhat)

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4 minutes ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

I am no medico, but one semi-plausible idea I have heard is that immunising kids means that they no longer get measles, German measles, chicken pox etc. Back in my day, it was a rite of passage to have all these and more as a young kid. Immunising means this no longer happens, so kids spend more time healthy and growing. There is presumably no way to verify this, but it is as plausible as anything I have heard. 

I thought it was because most of them stay at home now until they are 35 and live off the parents, not surviving on cornflakes, Newcastle brown ale and Woodbines, or was that just me...typed as I adjust my broken spindly frame in my seat

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48 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I thought it was because most of them stay at home now until they are 35 and live off the parents, not surviving on cornflakes, Newcastle brown ale and Woodbines, or was that just me...typed as I adjust my broken spindly frame in my seat

Could also be the genes your parents blessed you with Saty.

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1 hour ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

I am no medico, but one semi-plausible idea I have heard is that immunising kids means that they no longer get measles, German measles, chicken pox etc. Back in my day, it was a rite of passage to have all these and more as a young kid. Immunising means this no longer happens, so kids spend more time healthy and growing. There is presumably no way to verify this, but it is as plausible as anything I have heard. 

 

1 hour ago, Curry & Beer said:

I reckon it's also simple maths - there is a much larger population these days, therefore a lot more blokes who are in the big/tall category, and these are the ones with an advantage on the field so these are the ones that make it to the AFL (although there are more teams now too so that cancels it out somewhat)

 

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

I thought it was because most of them stay at home now until they are 35 and live off the parents, not surviving on cornflakes, Newcastle brown ale and Woodbines, or was that just me...typed as I adjust my broken spindly frame in my seat

 

It's called evolution.

The average height of the human male has gone up by 25cm over the last 2,000 years.

 

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24 minutes ago, stuie said:

It's called evolution.

The average height of the human male has gone up by 25cm over the last 2,000 years.

 

At the risk of being nerdy:

2000 years is just a blink on the scale of evolution.  I put it down to nutrition.  Walk around Footscray and you'l see that the Vietnamese kids born here are noticeably taller and bulkier than their parents.

I'm not sure that accounts for the increasing height of footballers, however, but it ain't evolution, even if Bobby Skilton was a chimp.

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1 minute ago, Elusive Tunbridge said:

At the risk of being nerdy:

2000 years is just a blink on the scale of evolution.  I put it down to nutrition.  Walk around Footscray and you'l see that the Vietnamese kids born here are noticeably taller and bulkier than their parents.

I'm not sure that accounts for the increasing height of footballers, however, but it ain't evolution, even if Bobby Skilton was a chimp.

Nutrition, health, knowledge, these are all part of our evolution as a species.

The other fact is, we are much much fatter as a species also, so not sure you can put it down to just "nutrition".

 

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2 hours ago, stuie said:

 

 

 

It's called evolution.

The average height of the human male has gone up by 25cm over the last 2,000 years.

 

Local variations can happen much faster. The children of the first British settlers to this country were significantly taller and stronger than their parents, due to having a half-decent diet and avoiding the awful living conditions in Britain at the time. The footballer difference we are talking about has happened over one or two generations. 

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4 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I thought it was because most of them stay at home now until they are 35 and live off the parents, not surviving on cornflakes, Newcastle brown ale and Woodbines, or was that just me...typed as I adjust my broken spindly frame in my seat

Not having to live through the depression and a world war and its consequences will help as well, I think. 

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9 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

And while we're at it, Darrel Baldock who was St Kilda's captain in its only premiership in 1966 played mainly at CHF and was 179cm 84kg but he was an absolute freak.

I commented recently about the fact that the current generation of players are generally taller and faster than those of the past, an evolution due to a number of factors relating probably to modern diet, fitness and even psychological factors. I wonder if there are any experts out there who can precisely explain the phenomenon?

Sam Weideman is 196cm 90kg (even if he's stopped growing, he'll probably get to at least 100kg after a couple of seasons in the game). The pundits compare him with Matty Pavlich but the Pav is 192cm 99kg - a fair difference there. Yet, I can remember Sam's grandfather playing at CHF and CHB for Collingwood. He was strong, a great mark and seemed like a giant on the field. His biography gives his stats as 187cm 96kg.

Look at Martin Pyke as a bit of a case study.  At the start of his career he was a giant key defender who was brought in to the Melbourne side to tame gorillas.  If you look at him playing in the early 90's he looked huge.  Fast forward to his time at Brisbane and he's a HBF who is towered over by the key forwards.  He slimmed down a lot over the years, but his height didn't change.  It was just that the people around him started getting taller. 

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