Robbie was. No doubt. I rate Robbie slightly below Mathews, Carey Abletts, Voss.

if Robbie played for Hawks or dons during that period he would be revered. Opposition supporters acknowledge his skills and standing within the game. 

2 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

But but but... He can jump...

 

ffs, he isn't even the best ruck in comp. idiots.

He may not even be the best ruck at WCE

Nicholas Naitanui	Name	Scott Lycett
West Coast Eagles	Team	West Coast Eagles
Ruck	Position	Forward, Ruck
131	Career Games	28
Swan Districts	Origin	Port Magpies
May 4, 1990	Date of Birth	September 26, 1992
25yr 7mth	Age	23yr 2mth
201cm	Height	203cm
107kg	Weight	103kg
2008 National Draft	Last Drafted In	2010 National Draft
Round 1, Pick #2	Last Draft Position	Round 2, Pick #29
West Coast Eagles	Last Drafted By	West Coast Eagles
2015	Stats for Season	2015
23	Games	6
5.7	Kicks Per Game	5.8
5.9	Handballs Per Game	5.3
11.6	Disposals Per Game	11.2
1.4	Marks Per Game	3.0
0.7	Goals Per Game	0.5
0.6	Behinds Per Game	0.3
3.6	Tackles Per Game	3.3
34.0	Hitouts Per Game	16.3
2.7	Inside 50s Per Game	1.7
0.2	Goal Assists Per Game	0.2
1.8	Frees For Per Game	1.0

Good old Max has better stats

 

Nicholas Naitanui	Name	Max Gawn
West Coast Eagles	Team	Melbourne Demons
Ruck	Position	Forward, Ruck
131	Career Games	39
Swan Districts	Origin	Sandringham Dragons
May 4, 1990	Date of Birth	December 30, 1991
25yr 7mth	Age	23yr 11mth
201cm	Height	208cm
107kg	Weight	111kg
2008 National Draft	Last Drafted In	2009 National Draft
Round 1, Pick #2	Last Draft Position	Round 3, Pick #34
West Coast Eagles	Last Drafted By	Melbourne Demons
2015	Stats for Season	2015
23	Games	13
5.7	Kicks Per Game	5.5
5.9	Handballs Per Game	8.0
11.6	Disposals Per Game	13.5
1.4	Marks Per Game	4.5
0.7	Goals Per Game	0.5
0.6	Behinds Per Game	0.3
3.6	Tackles Per Game	2.2
34.0	Hitouts Per Game	37.3
2.7	Inside 50s Per Game	1.7
0.2	Goal Assists Per Game	0.4
1.8	Frees For Per Game	1.2

 

1 hour ago, Baghdad Bob said:

How many times did you see him play?

Enough to know that while he was a star player probably just below the genuine superstars like Carey Ablett Matthews Voss..

11 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Enough to know that while he was a star player probably just below the genuine superstars like Carey Ablett Matthews Voss..

You didn't answer my question. I'll change it. About how many games did you see him play?  

Were you born before 1987 when he played his last game. Did you see him play in the late 70's and early 80's when he was at his peak. 

They are simple question Dazzle, I'm not trying to catch you out. 

Flower was a genuine superstar of the game and it's only those that either weren't born or were primary school kids when he retired that would even question his status.

It was a different era with no AFL and 12 Victorian teams.  At times in his career Flower was considered the best player in the league, which is why he captained his state.  He was invariably named best aground or in the "best" in winning teams for the Big V.  

Imo, Flower should have been named on the wing in the team of the 20th century, but the fact that he was considered in the 4 for that position (along with Peter Matera) is testament to his standing.  Consider that again for one moment - Flower was considered in the best 4 wingman in 100 years of footy when footy was all about positional play.

Flower was inarguably the greatest goal kicking wingman of all time (40 goals from a wing one year) and in my view should have made that team.

If you're not overly familiar with Flower it's probably best that you don't posit an opinion.

Travis Cloke was the "superstar" the other day.

 

I actually laughed.

3 hours ago, DubDee said:

maybe foxtel are picking one player from each team for the month? so the best player from tigers, either cotchin, delido or martin.  from eagles, probably kennedy, priddis (no idea how they picked nic nat)

they just called it superstar month as 'Quite good player' month doesnt sound as good

fairly pointless arguing on the definition of a superstar as there is no definition.  every one has a different idea.  same with A grade, star, etc

This is pretty on the mark actually DubDee.

Arguing about who FoxFooty classifies as a "superstar" is a bit like arguing about Caitlyn Jenner winning "Woman Of The Year" from "Glamour" magazine.

 

I would much prefer that they just have replays of the season as they did last year.......That way you don't have to watch Freo vs West Coast....Freo vs Gold Coast

 

I hate Freo

Superstar Naitanui on now.

Got a lot of vision of him on the bench, then get out marked by Shane Biggs.

Good one!

Anyone know if there's going to be a Nathan Jones package of games this month on Fox?

He'd be the only player at the moment that would come close from our list.

History month was a way better concept ... got to watch some of the 87 finals games for the first time (as was only 5 at the time), relived a bit of 1998 but disappointingly there was none of our 2000 season... even some great neutral games 

Hopefully bernie or jonesy get a gig in the next week

2 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

You didn't answer my question. I'll change it. About how many games did you see him play?  

Were you born before 1987 when he played his last game. Did you see him play in the late 70's and early 80's when he was at his peak. 

They are simple question Dazzle, I'm not trying to catch you out. 

I have seen one genuine superstar play for the MFC and Robbie Flower is it.

The only thing stopping him being the greatest wingman of all time along with Greig and Bourke  was his limited finals appearance.

Even with his broken down body in his last season he was still a pleasure to watch kicking 47 goals.

5 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Was Robbie Flower really a 'superstar'... Understand there are alot of really bias supporters on here but when i think superstar i think of Carey, GAJ, Matthews, Voss...

While Robbie was a fantastic player personally in my opinion he wasn't a superstar..

Hmm, Pro Dee's post a few above this one pretty much nails it. 

Flower was on a different level to the other players during a normal VFL (AFL) match. When you stuck him in State of Origin format he was still on a different level. As PD mentioned when the best played the best he was invariably BOG or close to it.

Flower was a superstar

 

Robbie was Victoria's "only clear winner" in the first State of Origin game

Some interesting stats and names from the same game:

Another BOG for Flower in the Vics win over WA in 1980.

Flower's teammates that day included Leigh Matthews, Kevin Bartlett, Wayne Schimmelbusch, Keith Greig, Southby, Templeton, Garry Wilson, Tim Watson and Bruce Doull.

Plus stats of the match:

Flower was Vic's best again...

1983 State of Origin South Australia 26.16.172 d Victoria 17.14.116
Goals - SA: Lindner 5, Bradley, Kernahan, Motley 3, Naley, Aish, Platten, Schneebichler 2, Thomas, Copping, McAdam. Vic: Flower 4, Daniher, Wilson 3, Madden 2, Smith, Marcou, Cunningham, Ashman, Hawker.
Best - SA: Aish, Bradley, Motley, Giles, Craig, Lindner, Thomas, Rendell. Vic: Flower, Daniher, Serafini, Wilson, Rowlings, Madden.

Just pipped by Southby in this one...

1980 State of Origin Victoria 15.12.102 d South Australia 12.13.85
Goals - Vic: Templeton, Bartlett 3, Moncrieff, Flower, Jess 2, Sheldon, Raines, Turner. SA: Roberts 4, McSporran 2, Cornes, Heinrich, Davies, Taylor, Phillips, James..
Best - Vic: Southby, Flower, Lee, Nankervis, Raines, Turner. SA: Cornes, Davies, phillips, McSporran, Kuhlmann, Williams.

I hope some enjoy the names and memories.

And remember, this was the best against the best.  Flower shone.  Flower was a superstar.
 

R Flower was a dead set superstar of the game

just watch his video packages on youtube. Did it every week

and was always sublime playing for The Big V...

Fantastic stuff Pro!  Flower would have stood rightfully on the stage with any player to play in the modern era.  As well as his brilliance he was versatile.  Perhaps it was in a game against WA above but in the last quarter and with the game in the balance Victoria had no key position forwards and Flower was moved to CHF where he was opposed to Ross Glendinning.  He won the match for the Vics taking Glendinning apart.

He was a superstar and anyone who doesn't think it didn't see his career.  I saw much of it.  I started going to the footy every week where possible from about 1970 onward and reckon I saw him play on 200 or more occasions.  He is clearly the best player I've seen in red and blue and the only players who come anywhere near having his level of skill and match day influence were a pre knee David Schwarz and the fruit cake who was Allen Jakovich.  As good as players like Neitz, Lyon and Stynes were they didn't hold a candle to Flower.

 

8 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Was Robbie Flower really a 'superstar'... Understand there are alot of really bias supporters on here but when i think superstar i think of Carey, GAJ, Matthews, Voss...

While Robbie was a fantastic player personally in my opinion he wasn't a superstar..

Dazzle..... Surely you jest?

SURELY?

Robbie Flower was a Superstar, of the highest order.  Every bit the equal in dynamics and influence of all your example players.

Do yourself a favour and find some vision of the bloke playing. 87 Finals series & every game he ever played in the Big V would a great starting point. 

Cmon Dazzle your better than this champ! 

The testament in my opinion to Robbie was that when I saw him play the opposition always tried to kill him.

Your heart would be in your mouth always for the next game. Would he be playing.

One split second he would be running head long at, through, around opposition players and you would say to yourself that this was it,

but somehow he would evade everything and have just bounced the ball, while somehow turning and running on!

It was just amazing, as people would clap things that would not even be acknowledged now.

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

R Flower was a dead set superstar of the game

just watch his video packages on youtube. Did it every week

and was always sublime playing for The Big V...

One of the biggest tragedies of Flower playing in a poor team is the lack of footage of his greatness. You have to consider those highlights packages you refer to were mostly from the 80's and taken from the few games he competed in that were actually televised. 

51 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

One of the biggest tragedies of Flower playing in a poor team is the lack of footage of his greatness. You have to consider those highlights packages you refer to were mostly from the 80's and taken from the few games he competed in that were actually televised. 

Sad isn't it

saw his first game and his last

and most in between...

I was 11 when he retired, but even as a young kid you saw he was in a league of his own. His peers all agreed. 

12 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Sad isn't it

saw his first game and his last

and most in between...

I was too young to appreciate him fully - I only remember glimpses of his 87 season but he was still my hero as a little kid and I proudly wore the number 2 on my back as a 4-5 year old.

All I really have to go on are those youtube clips and the odd state game I can get my hands on.

Poetry in motion...

23 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Enough to know that while he was a star player probably just below the genuine superstars like Carey Ablett Matthews Voss..

No answer Dazzle?  I'm going to assume that you're a young guy who probably wasn't born when he played.

 

33 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

No answer Dazzle?  I'm going to assume that you're a young guy who probably wasn't born when he played.

 

Fair enough to everyone who said so. Of course i didn't watch evey single game  of his career and im sure many didn't due to lack of coverage on tv. Btw i bought grandad a special Robbie Flower DVD for his birthday of most of highlights from his All Australian years and the 1987. Great package. He was 2 decades ahead of the the game in terms of skill and silkyness. He was a star no doubt.

During the 90s i watched alot of Carey Voss Ablett Buckley and these guys would no doubt take over games and just dominate through pure physical presence and ability to change course of the game. 

This is in no way of mocking R Flower at all just an opinion that i think he was just that one step below being the absolute superstar that those 4 get spoken about a fair bit which probably bit unfair on Robbie because i think the lack of success during that era played a role in that. 

Bit like whats happening to Nathan Jones now..