Speaking of which... *cough* Brisbane... *cough* Adcock...

What are they thinking?! It's a mind-boggling homage to the Schwab era!

They even have their own Schwab!

... can we offload Bail, Fitzy and Terlich to them for a 1st rounder?

I'd throw in McKenzie as steak knives

I'd keep him for the reasons you have outlined above. Plus he is a good Clubman and popular with his teammates, consistent with the culture we want to encourage.

nope, pass, he'd go well at a Hawthorn, or Sydney, who have strong leaders & a strong cultural work-ethic, & successful attitudes established. we don't have that luxury.

so we cannot afford to have a club attitude thats more like a colander.

to change our club, we need more the selwoods, mitchells & hodges of footy, not the Stevie J's,,, at this stage.

The trouble CB is that we have an under-performing soft culture that Watts and others are a part of at the Moment

Watts departing may be better for the cultural change that is required. So whehter is is a good guy is certainly irrelevant to the performance of the footy playing culture. I would rather deal with a bad boy who brought competitiveness to the field each and every week

yes..... Dusty Martin types, ahead of a Watts types every day of the week.

You've said nothing that counters anything I've said. There is no dancing around Watts' failure to contribute thus far in his career. I have backed him the whole way up until the second half of this year when my patience with he and the rest of them, including Roos, finally ran out. It's not frigging good enough. 7 seasons and 115 games. He has finished 9th and 10th in the best and fairest as his only placings. This year he was dropped twice. He STILL REFUSES to do what everyone in the country has been pleading for him to do which is put his damn head over the ball and get hurt in the contest. What 'extremes' am I seeing here? I don't care how good a clubman/bloke he is, it shouldn't be used as currency in the argument for him remaining part of this team. If we had 22 Wattses it would be a lovely bunch of blokes but it would go winless. We need our culture dictated by the likes of Viney, Jones, Dunn, Vandenberg, Brayshaw and Hogan, and we don't need blokes like Watts (whose attitude is the anithesis of theirs) around the club diluting the spirit that we are trying to build.

I am not countering what you have said, only the absolutes you use to define what others say and what you believe are 'facts'.

Treatment of good club men is important, it is not irrelevant.

Watts' 2015 was much better than any previous season, and that in-and-of-itself is not enough to make him a 'must keep' it has taken him from being the epitome of our soft underbelly to an indictment on our team's ability to choose when it plays to its fullest.

The way some on here take a couple of players and lay at their feet the collective problems of the club and the list-at-large is idiotic. Even you see the chosen scapegoats.

Watts is the MFC's Softness, Garland is the MFC's tortured, scarred past, Dawes is its MFC's overpaid losers, and Grimes is the MFC's stagnate, deficient present.

If only we got rid of these players they cry - these problems will disappear as quickly Nathan Jones' form in August...

The challenge I have in keeping the faith in Jack Watts is how easily Brayshaw, Hogan and Vandenburg sailed past him in terms of intent and hardness and outcome on the footy field.

He's become a luxury we don't need to afford.

Prb...exactly.

The question returns to team balance,role playing and who contributes what (npi).

If we can import a player that can do said role better and more proficiently why keep Jack ?

Jack reminds me of doing jigsaws. You get a spot where youre damb sure piece 'x' fits...right up until you find 'y' which is the one you actually need. Both kinda look similar but one's right...the other nqr.

Just is.

I would hate to see Jack Watts play for another club. For better or worse he is a demon. I felt exactly the same about trenners - and for that matter hundreds of players over the years.

Roos made it clear last year that everyone is tradeable and with the Treeners near trade the club showed that they are prepared to make the hard calls. So it wouldn't be a shock if they did trade him. But i for one really hope they don't.

I'd throw in McKenzie as steak knives

I'd rather actual steak knives than Jordie McKenzie

Listening to Hogan yesterday, he said his biggest knightmare would to be dropped. Jack doesn't mind that, he even drops himself. As Hogan said we need players with a fierce desire who hate to lose. Watts is so far from this type of player it's not funny.

Listening to Hogan yesterday, he said his biggest knightmare would to be dropped. Jack doesn't mind that, he even drops himself. As Hogan said we need players with a fierce desire who hate to lose. Watts is so far from this type of player it's not funny.

Yup.

Hogan is everything this club needs. The perfect attitude, and the drive to become great.

Watts is and always will be the complete opposite. He must be moved on.

I'd rather actual steak knives than Jordie McKenzie

I wouldn't. Always gave it his all, just wasn't quite good enough. No shame in that.

Will be one of the few that I will be sad to see go this year.

I would hate to see Jack Watts play for another club. For better or worse he is a demon. I felt exactly the same about trenners - and for that matter hundreds of players over the years.

Roos made it clear last year that everyone is tradeable and with the Treeners near trade the club showed that they are prepared to make the hard calls. So it wouldn't be a shock if they did trade him. But i for one really hope they don't.

Players come and go. We support the club. Best not to get too attached to players in this day and age. They mostly treat it like a job. Its our passion.

We will be supporting melbourne long after Jack Watts has fluffed around for 10yrs at our club. We will still be saying "if only...."

The challenge I have in keeping the faith in Jack Watts is how easily Brayshaw, Hogan and Vandenburg sailed past him in terms of intent and hardness and outcome on the footy field.

He's become a luxury we don't need to afford.

Cuts both ways - you could argue that now that we have these hard-at-it blokes doing that part of the job, Watts will get the inside service he needs. Too many black and white positions being taken on this I feel. Let's see the club's decision.

In the end it all boils down to .....we can only have those that turn up to play, 100%...each game as constituents on our list.

I'm not sure even Jack could offer an iron clad guarantee....just saying

I would hate to see Jack Watts play for another club. For better or worse he is a demon. I felt exactly the same about trenners - and for that matter hundreds of players over the years.

Roos made it clear last year that everyone is tradeable and with the Treeners near trade the club showed that they are prepared to make the hard calls. So it wouldn't be a shock if they did trade him. But i for one really hope they don't.

This is a silly attitude that we all need to rid ourselves of

You can stomach watching Watts be mediocre-at-best in another jumper because you will know that his trade has played a role in improving the club

You don't just hang on to blokes cos youve gotten used to them being around

I would hate to see Jack Watts play for another club. For better or worse he is a demon. I felt exactly the same about trenners - and for that matter hundreds of players over the years.

Roos made it clear last year that everyone is tradeable and with the Treeners near trade the club showed that they are prepared to make the hard calls. So it wouldn't be a shock if they did trade him. But i for one really hope they don't.

Empathise with this to a degree. I hated the thought of Trenners in a Richmond jumper. Still do in fact and I hope to never see it.

Less so with Watts. Partly because I think a move would do him a lot of good, but also because the way he plays the game just frustrates the hell out of me and I can't see it being remedied.

Great representative off the field though. Quite possibly the best you could ever hope for. It's a shame the way it's panned out.

But we wait and see what the club decides. If they continue backing him in, I trust their judgement.

Jacks on the block and he knows it, which is hopefully a wake up call for him. At the same time Roos is not going to trade him unless he sees good value in the trade for the club. Watts and Howe maybe to goldcoast for bennell and someone or a pick?

Howe and Watts to where...when ??

I know this is getting repetitive, but I'll back the club in here. If they feel they need an outside player with extremely good skills, who doesn't like a lot of physical contact and that the player in question can service the game style we're looking to foster, then great. Happy to support them on that decision. If they think it's best for both parties (and this could be argued) that Jack moves on, then I'd back that decision too. I'm almost certain they won't simply trade him for a second rounder. He'd be packaged in with a pick or another player to get something sizeable in return and this, I'd be happy with.

Jack seems like a nice kid, I've backed him for many years, thought he brought value to the team and he still does, but as C&B inferred, the 'new Melbourne' is tough, uncompromising and hates losing. Think Hogan and Viney. Jack is, fairly or unfairly, part of the 'old Melbourne'.

Edited September 10, 201510 yr by AdamFarr

You've said nothing that counters anything I've said. There is no dancing around Watts' failure to contribute thus far in his career. I have backed him the whole way up until the second half of this year when my patience with he and the rest of them, including Roos, finally ran out. It's not frigging good enough. 7 seasons and 115 games. He has finished 9th and 10th in the best and fairest as his only placings. This year he was dropped twice. He STILL REFUSES to do what everyone in the country has been pleading for him to do which is put his damn head over the ball and get hurt in the contest. What 'extremes' am I seeing here? I don't care how good a clubman/bloke he is, it shouldn't be used as currency in the argument for him remaining part of this team. If we had 22 Wattses it would be a lovely bunch of blokes but it would go winless. We need our culture dictated by the likes of Viney, Jones, Dunn, Vandenberg, Brayshaw and Hogan, and we don't need blokes like Watts (whose attitude is the anithesis of theirs) around the club diluting the spirit that we are trying to build.

Refreshing.

Inspiring.

Yaawwwnnnnn.

I know this is getting repetitive, but I'll back the club in here. If they feel they need an outside player with extremely good skills, who doesn't like a lot of physical contact and that the player in question can service the game style we're looking to foster, then great.

Ill just address this bit if I may.

That in itself hasnt become the issue...its a maintained effort that has. Even Jack cant ( mentally ) commit to it it seems..Where to from here then. Players on the park must give all...100%...each week.

Houston, we have a problem...

Ill just address this bit if I may.

That in itself hasnt become the issue...its a maintained effort that has. Even Jack cant ( mentally ) commit to it it seems..Where to from here then. Players on the park must give all...100%...each week.

Houston, we have a problem...

To lay blame at the feet of just Jack isn't fair then. What about the weeks where Jones and Vince did bugger all? Some Demonlanders even went as far as giving those two a pass because they had a bout of the flu, but Jack doesn't get this same concession? I don't think any of them should have been excused for their performances. I just think it's unfair to question Jack's effort and put him up as a candidate for trade when those two and others, failed as well.

It seems that every player on the list can be out of form, or injured, or tired.....if it's JW, he's soft, won't put in, doesn't apply himself....

Whatever.

Adam...this IS a Jack Watts thread...(rare i know)

So im containing thoughts here to him.

i think Jones inconsistencies are more due injuries and illness possibly.

Watts..

a classic between the ears discussion i sense

Refreshing.

Inspiring.

Yaawwwnnnnn.

yeah we need more contributions like the one you've just made you muppet