If Watts and Howe are traded then it is consistent with Roos' philosophy on football. I'd expect nothing less.

Bring it on I say!

Actually Id agree.

Irrespective of what many like to think both What and Howe ( so tempted to fall into a Max Smart soliloquy..lol ) ...anyhow... are what I consider "Veneer" players. They can often look the goods and from the right place of observation really look something but when you dissect them they really arent the real thing. Ive really wanted Jack to step up and do it solidly. There was a patch this year he kinda got there but it just seems a bridge too far for him to maintain it. It was like he was trying to play like someone else and that it wasnt his natural self. We need players for who the effort and effect IS natural not a faux fabrication that evaporates at the first sign of exhaustion.

I dont wish JW any ill but just want players who are REAL players at MFC. I think Jacks best recourse is to...re-course...towards another club. He can reboot there.

Howe. is for mine and always has been a bit of a 1-1/2 trick pony. He takes speccies...wow...big whooped de doo. What does that count other than spectacle if you cant follow it up with meaning possessions and ADD to the effort .Instead he often fluffs up the next thing.

Looking at the caliber of players that have come in over the past two intakes neither of these chaps ( Watts and Howe ) I feel would have been a preference for our NOW Football Brains. Both players are currently there, simply because they WERE there. Id be surprised if the FD hasnt marked their cards cards as "Replace if possible"....and not like for like.

We unearthed some gems recently...Id be disappointed if the prospecting has stopped..

So for Watts and Howe its a case of When .....we know the Why !!!

Looking at the caliber of players that have come in over the past two intakes neither of these chaps ( Watts and Howe ) I feel would have been a preference for our NOW Football Brains. Both players are currently there, simply because they WERE there. Id be surprised if the FD hasnt marked their cards cards as "Replace if possible"....and not like for like.

I am almost certain Watts will be on our list next year, further that he will continue to cement himself as a top 22 player.

Statistically he has had a good year, even taking into consideration his poor games. He will again finish in our top 10 bnf, which whilst it is not the top 5, it is still a testament to his consistency over the last two years especially. Posters on here and supporters in general often overstate his deficiencies and understate his contribution. Admittedly I am a fan, but I do see his poor traits also. We are lacking, smooth moving, highly skilled outside players and with Watts we have a player who would be pushing towards the elite category for decision making and skill execution. He has started to put strings of matches together and this year has very rarely been our worst and has began to address his problems.

That said, conversations about Watts are impossible to have with most posters as they are unable to see past their already made up mind on his contribution to the side.

Again, I am fine if he leaves for value but if he is here in 2016 then I can see a role for him to play.

I am almost certain Watts will be on our list next year, further that he will continue to cement himself as a top 22 player.

Statistically he has had a good year, even taking into consideration his poor games. He will again finish in our top 10 bnf, which whilst it is not the top 5, it is still a testament to his consistency over the last two years especially. Posters on here and supporters in general often overstate his deficiencies and understate his contribution. Admittedly I am a fan, but I do see his poor traits also. We are lacking, smooth moving, highly skilled outside players and with Watts we have a player who would be pushing towards the elite category for decision making and skill execution. He has started to put strings of matches together and this year has very rarely been our worst and has began to address his problems.

That said, conversations about Watts are impossible to have with most posters as they are unable to see past their already made up mind on his contribution to the side.

I have no concerns if Watts can replicate all year what his purple patch produced this year. I just get the impression he was playing ot of his skin so to speak. Happy to be wrong.

Im always wary of comments about this player or that being this good or that because they finished 'somewhere' in the b'n'f. This often goes more to our problems than showcasing our brilliance. I dont care much about the bnf..though players might.. I care about winning and premierships

Again, I am fine if he leaves for value but if he is here in 2016 then I can see a role for him to play.

Agreed. If he is up for trade it is likely because the FD believe someone else will give us greater value than what we perceive he brings to us. Personally, I think trading him for a draft pick doesn't make a lot of sense as anything other than a top ten pick will likely not make us better off, at least in the crucial short term. We may be best served using him to attract a quality player. But if he stays, I will be happy with that also.

Watts has every physical and skill trait to make it as an elite footballer, in spades. . . . . bar one. Effen frustrating to say the least. Really hope he can make it happen. . .at the Dees!

On SEN today Dr Turf made it known he was at Etihad with his daughter and was asked by KB what he thought of Watts getting dropped. He thought that Jack would be better off somewhere else. He did say that he thought Jack should stay but has changed his mind and thought that he would be better elsewhere. I suspect what the daughter heard may well be true.

I suspect it may be true that she heard it.

I also believe that anything PJ would say to Dr. Turf, he would say in the full knowledge that there was a likelihood it would be repeated, possibly on radio.

And there's also the potential that PJ would say it with a certain motive in mind.

I suspect it may be true that she heard it.

I also believe that anything PJ would say to Dr. Turf, he would say in the full knowledge that there was a likelihood it would be repeated, possibly on radio.

And there's also the potential that PJ would say it with a certain motive in mind.

absolutely with you on that

I went to AAMI park today. (invited) to look around the training complex.

Things were pretty quiet.

Players were getting checked over physically and prepared for little clean up surgical procedures to have them

ready for the next pre season.

Roosy and Co were also conducting end of season reviews (so I was told) didn't see him.

I was standing in the pool room (swimming) and Wattsy happened to walk past, he turned, smiled and gave me the thumbs up.

He looked pretty up to me. just saying, probably means Jack smith.

I went to AAMI park today. (invited) to look around the training complex.

Things were pretty quiet.

Players were getting checked over physically and prepared for little clean up surgical procedures to have them

ready for the next pre season.

Roosy and Co were also conducting end of season reviews (so I was told) didn't see him.

I was standing in the pool room (swimming) and Wattsy happened to walk past, he turned, smiled and gave me the thumbs up.

He looked pretty up to me. just saying, probably means Jack smith.

And what did he say when you asked him where he's going to be next year?

And what did he say when you asked him where he's going to be next year?

might be hard to answer if you don't know !!

Dr Turf is is not renowned for his mail-nor his sartorial elegance.

I went to AAMI park today. (invited) to look around the training complex.

Things were pretty quiet.

Players were getting checked over physically and prepared for little clean up surgical procedures to have them

ready for the next pre season.

Roosy and Co were also conducting end of season reviews (so I was told) didn't see him.

I was standing in the pool room (swimming) and Wattsy happened to walk past, he turned, smiled and gave me the thumbs up.

He looked pretty up to me. just saying, probably means Jack smith.

Maybe he was so happy as he had just been informed he's getting traded....

Not against him going for the right price but at the same time, good teams need downhill skiers who sprint down the sloper faster than the rest. In a good Melbourne team he'll look as good as Trapper did in 2002, 2004, 2005. I know that's not ideal to some but Watts has a role as an outside runner, and that type of role thrives in a good team. We simply don't win enough of the ball for Watts to be effective. I'm cautious of saying he doesn't try. I just think Melbourne being where it is, is at odds with the type of player he is. You can't expect him to lead or be our best player. He's just not that sort of player.

Not against him going for the right price but at the same time, good teams need downhill skiers who sprint down the sloper faster than the rest. In a good Melbourne team he'll look as good as Trapper did in 2002, 2004, 2005. I know that's not ideal to some but Watts has a role as an outside runner, and that type of role thrives in a good team. We simply don't win enough of the ball for Watts to be effective. I'm cautious of saying he doesn't try. I just think Melbourne being where it is, is at odds with the type of player he is. You can't expect him to lead or be our best player. He's just not that sort of player.

I'd keep him for the reasons you have outlined above. Plus he is a good Clubman and popular with his teammates, consistent with the culture we want to encourage.

Dr Turf is is not renowned for his mail-nor his sartorial elegance.

Or his discretion...

I'd keep him for the reasons you have outlined above. Plus he is a good Clubman and popular with his teammates, consistent with the culture we want to encourage.

irrelevant

irrelevant

I hardly think that it is irrelevant that we should strive to establish a good camaraderie within our team and a non-toxic culture. We are heading in the right direction here as you cannot help but note watching the team enthusiastically sing the Club song last Sunday.

irrelevant

Wasn't irrelevant when it came to shafting Junior McDonald...

Wasn't irrelevant when it came to shafting Junior McDonald...

yeah we should just let good clubmen like Watts get a game every week and not contribute, and good players like junior should be allowed to play well into their 40s until such time as they feel like retiring

it's about CONSISTENTLY CONTRIBUTING AN AFL STANDARD PERFORMANCE ON THE FIELD

'being a good bloke' comes second by a long, long, long, long way

Wasn't irrelevant when it came to shafting Junior McDonald...

Speaking of which... *cough* Brisbane... *cough* Adcock...

What are they thinking?! It's a mind-boggling homage to the Schwab era!

They even have their own Schwab!

... can we offload Bail, Fitzy and Terlich to them for a 1st rounder?

Speaking of which... *cough* Brisbane... *cough* Adcock...

What are they thinking?! It's a mind-boggling homage to the Schwab era!

They even have their own Schwab!

... can we offload Bail, Fitzy and Terlich to them for a 1st rounder?

Can you type in your sleep?

I hardly think that it is irrelevant that we should strive to establish a good camaraderie within our team and a non-toxic culture. We are heading in the right direction here as you cannot help but note watching the team enthusiastically sing the Club song last Sunday.

The trouble CB is that we have an under-performing soft culture that Watts and others are a part of at the Moment

Watts departing may be better for the cultural change that is required. So whehter is is a good guy is certainly irrelevant to the performance of the footy playing culture. I would rather deal with a bad boy who brought competetiveness to the field each and every week

yeah we should just let good clubmen like Watts get a game every week and not contribute, and good players like junior should be allowed to play well into their 40s until such time as they feel like retiring

it's about CONSISTENTLY CONTRIBUTING AN AFL STANDARD PERFORMANCE ON THE FIELD

'being a good bloke' comes second by a long, long, long, long way

Until it doesn't...

Why do you see every argument you don't like in such extremes? Watts 'gets' games every week and 'doesn't contribute', does he? I am saying Junior should have been playing at 44 am I?

And the argument that being a good clubman is not irrelevant to players being moved on boils down to me wanting to keep Watts for 'being a good bloke' does it?

Clubs are made up of individuals that want to be respected and they want to see those they respect given the same treatment. Beware your actions and the perception of them is all I am saying - but please continue to boil it down to black and white concepts you can dismiss and sneer at.

You've said nothing that counters anything I've said. There is no dancing around Watts' failure to contribute thus far in his career. I have backed him the whole way up until the second half of this year when my patience with he and the rest of them, including Roos, finally ran out. It's not frigging good enough. 7 seasons and 115 games. He has finished 9th and 10th in the best and fairest as his only placings. This year he was dropped twice. He STILL REFUSES to do what everyone in the country has been pleading for him to do which is put his damn head over the ball and get hurt in the contest. What 'extremes' am I seeing here? I don't care how good a clubman/bloke he is, it shouldn't be used as currency in the argument for him remaining part of this team. If we had 22 Wattses it would be a lovely bunch of blokes but it would go winless. We need our culture dictated by the likes of Viney, Jones, Dunn, Vandenberg, Brayshaw and Hogan, and we don't need blokes like Watts (whose attitude is the anithesis of theirs) around the club diluting the spirit that we are trying to build.