On 04/09/2015 at 02:16, Rusty Nails said:

The quality of the finals would possibly be better if the series commenced at that point as well. Less chance of injury to some of the greats/better players/champions. Length of the season is always a sticking point with coaches as well as to why they find it necessary to rest/protect some of the older vets in past seasons. Resting "a few vets" has now turned into the club resting half the team, with the AFL's blessing.

I predict it'll go like this - AFL will bring in some new rule I.e. limit number you can sub last round. The clubs will follow that rule but only play half a game unless there's something at stake. Then it'll take the AFL about 10 years to take the hint and actually set a bye before finals.

  On 04/09/2015 at 00:10, Bossdog said:

Well....I hope that it backfires against Freo and Nth.North to get smashed in the first week of the finalsFreo to go out in straight setsNow that would say a lot about "List Management"

That is the only way that this will be resolved, so let's hope that happens.

What concerns me a bit is what Wayne Carey suggested could happen. Set up some patsy to go out and run riot...maybe "do a Mitchell" and knee a few Tigers to prevent them running next week. So what if he gets caught and misses a few weeks at the start of next season. After all he could serve on or maybe two weeks in the finals, even though he was unlikely to be selected. Some sort of "team penalty" for the following week may be needed (though not sure how it could work...maybe a goal or two head start for their opponents.)

  On 04/09/2015 at 03:22, pineapple dee said:

North are not tanking, neither did we. We just brought the game into disrepute. And we all know one thing the AFL will never allow is the game being brought into disrepute. God fobid that that should happen !!!!

Not much difference between what North/Freo are doing and what we done. Different rules for different teams I guess.

Redleg, I feel your pain. Personally I see no real difference between what we supposedly did and what North and Freo are doing. But not only do I think we need to move on, the main issue as I see it is the AFL's lack of integrity and accountability. Freo and North, like all the clubs, are ultimately accountable to their members, who would naturally demand that they do their utmost within the rules to win premierships. So I have no issue with Freo and North acting "strategically" in what they believe is their best interests. The fact that both had to ask the AFL for permission tells me that there is no consistent policy or interpretation at AFL House (but that is hardly news).

However. from the perspective of the game (which should be what the AFL is looking at), I think Leigh Matthews is right on the money. "Disrepecting the round" is exactly right; it is basically saying to fans of the clubs involved and other spectators that the AFL doesn't give a rats about the matches this weekend. From that perspective, the best outcome would be for both North and Freo to get flogged, and for both games to be played in front of tiny crowds. That definitely won't happen for the North vs Richmond game (being a Friday night game in Melbourne), but it would perhaps get the message to the dunderheads at the AFL. "Go hard every game" should be the message from the AFL to all the clubs. After all, this is part of the entertainment business, and giving people reasons to turn off is not a good idea at all.

  On 04/09/2015 at 10:05, nrc73 said:

I predict it'll go like this - AFL will bring in some new rule I.e. limit number you can sub last round. The clubs will follow that rule but only play half a game unless there's something at stake. Then it'll take the AFL about 10 years to take the hint and actually set a bye before finals.

I have my doubts the AFL will set any hard and fast rule on this Nrc. Past history points more towards complee ambiguity in order that they (the AFL) can manage the competition/fixture/finals draw in the best way they think in order to maximise income.

If they were serious about a level playing field then yes something along the lines of what you suggested would seem logical to many.... OR

... Each club who is certain of a finals appearance as of Rnd 23 must name their "finals squad" of say 26/28 which allows for 4 to 6 subs in case of injury/suspension in the final round. Of the 4 to 6 rested players (if they are rested) from Rnd 23, they must start on the bench for say the first 10 min of the first final before being included in rotations. Therefore there's an incentive to rest fewer players in order to avoid restricted rotations within say the first 10 min (or 15) of the first final only.

North being allowed to play dead for a week to gain an advantage off the field, with the side-effect that their opponent is disadvantaged when they play against eachother the very next week. What could possibly go wrong.

Tell you what, Richmond fans will not be very joyous anyway if they get knocked out of the first week of finals for a third year in a row. Last year it was over after 20 minutes, against Port, and the year before that Carlton (who should never have been there) kicked six goals to two in the final quarter after being behind all day.

There will be very ugly scenes if North, with all their cherry ripe players, finish hard and come back from behind to steal the win in the final quarter after being beaten all day. Wise North supporters would have an exit plan to get out before the siren unleashes hell.

Throw in the mooted transport strike as the crowds are leaving and there could be an actual football riot.

How does that play out for 'preserving the reputation of the game'?

What a pearler if Sydney somehow lose to the Gold Coast - Tigers 4th, Sydney 5th - Nth get to go to Sydney.

with a full team freo would be expected to beat port based on form

now with 9 players "rested" port are the favourites

the difference between port losing and winning could be 3 places on the ladder and hence 3 positions in the national draft

This has become a total farce. The game last night was disgusting to watch.

Fans already being stripped of value for what they pay, get served up this rubbish.

And now there is North's miserable whinging coach saying people should apologise because 'they came out hard'. Doubtless the 9 second-raters did for obvious reasons and a few guys who know no other way, but who does Scott think he is kidding. Basically if you play a B grade team, chances are they will lose no matter hard how they go at it. Self righteous creep.

This brings bad feelings about the way Dean Bailey and our club was treated by the AFL. I understand there are differences but there are enough similarities in the sense that Clubs can manipulate individual games to their advantage. This combined with the way Carltank got away scott free busts my chops.

I am not blaming the tanking Issues for Dean Baileys illness but he was clearly broken by the sanction against him.

If I was a member of the Bailey family I would be aggrieved and asking the AFL for an explanation.

  On 05/09/2015 at 02:23, daisycutter said:

with a full team freo would be expected to beat port based on form

now with 9 players "rested" port are the favourites

the difference between port losing and winning could be 3 places on the ladder and hence 3 positions in the national draft

So if Freo can "rest" players why can't Port? I wonder what the answer from the AFL would be if they asked?

To my way of thinking, the act itself should be knocked on the head - regardless of the reward, consequences or circumstances. Even the teams that tanked didn't go anywhere near this far - Freo resting 11 players is just outrageous.

It's an easy fix too - the AFL can just hand down a heavy fine (say, 2 mil) or take away premiership points if they believe a team isn't playing up to its merits. No appeal, the decision is final. Zero tolerance. Problem solved in many or most ways.

The trouble is that people don't like draconian measures - I do (when it suits) Let's not forget that the AFL can basically do what it likes - they don't really answer to anyone.

The cynic in me thinks that the AFL doesn't mind this sort of controversy - front page headlines yesterday and what do they say ... "Any publicity is good publicity"

Yes. An 8 point loss of Premiership points to Nought would make a massive difference.

Brad Scott's futile rant at the presser last night made me really angry....

We the members of clubs should demand the Commission is replaced and Dill booted out. He is as soft as a Wetex

I can't stomach the Scott twins - Brad more so than Chris.

Self righteous sooks both of them. Hope North implodes in the finals.

Will be barracking for the Toiges for the first time.

Tanking the back end of the season will now become the norm because of this spineless commission.

Memberships Food and Admission prices won't change though

Dill must be on close to $2 mill a year

What a disgrace. Sanctioned cheating....

1st priority is to prepare your team in the best way to win a finals game the following week... Other teams can complain like Adelaide etc but if they wanted to host a final they should have won more games & not rely on other teams to loose etc....

Supporters need to get used to this as this is player welfare mgt... Happens in the epl when a team chooses what they want to win the championship, fa cup or Europe .. They have squads & will field a team that suits....

Don't know what the fuss is.. Though do question on how many players nth are resting, flirting with form???

  On 05/09/2015 at 04:08, chook fowler said:

I can't stomach the Scott twins - Brad more so than Chris.

Self righteous sooks both of them. Hope North implodes in the finals.

Will be barracking for the Toiges for the first time.

I reckon they'll beat the Tigers now ... resting players works in an endurance sport like ours. Always has really.

Many of the flags that that we won were achieved with a weeks rest x 2 ... in the old final 4 days, the 2nd semi was played in week 2 of the finals and the GF was played in week 4 ... of course, that "rest" was quite within the rules.

What North & Freo are doing is against the rules in my eyes - that 'bringing the game into disrepute rule" was never more apt. So why don't the AFL apply that rule - possibly because it suits them to not do so. They must know that what North & Freo are doing is at least not in the spirit of the game.

What we watched last night was fake - it was a contrived outcome - we may as well have been watching the WWE.

  On 05/09/2015 at 04:25, Hogan2014 said:

1st priority is to prepare your team in the best way to win a finals game the following week... Other teams can complain like Adelaide etc but if they wanted to host a final they should have won more games & not rely on other teams to loose etc....

Supporters need to get used to this as this is player welfare mgt... Happens in the epl when a team chooses what they want to win the championship, fa cup or Europe .. They have squads & will field a team that suits....

Don't know what the fuss is.. Though do question on how many players nth are resting, flirting with form???

Again the comparisons with soccer - the circumstances surrounding soccer and footy are vastly different.

Mourinho was asked about the last game of the EPL season last year (when they had already sewn up the title) and he said that he would be picking his best team to protect the integrity of the sport.

So it's not the same ... besides which there's traditions and different cultures to take into account ... it's not one size fits all - it's much more complex than what you're making out.

How would you feel if it was our club missing out on a finals berth on the back of another club resting half their players? Would you feel differently then? Be honest.

  On 05/09/2015 at 04:25, Hogan2014 said:

1st priority is to prepare your team in the best way to win a finals game the following week... Other teams can complain like Adelaide etc but if they wanted to host a final they should have won more games & not rely on other teams to loose etc....

Supporters need to get used to this as this is player welfare mgt... Happens in the epl when a team chooses what they want to win the championship, fa cup or Europe .. They have squads & will field a team that suits....

Don't know what the fuss is.. Though do question on how many players nth are resting, flirting with form???

That is all ok. But make the game free entry when it is an AFL sanctioned Tank...

  On 05/09/2015 at 04:37, Sir Why You Little said:

That is all ok. But make the game free entry when it is an AFL sanctioned Tank...

AFL sanctioned corruption - and they're being quite open about it.

We have one comp and one prize ... that's it. The comp shouldn't be allowed to be compromised but it is being compromised right before our very eyes.

So for over 100 years this sort of thing never happened (certainly not to these extreme lengths) and now its somehow ok? I'm all for progressive thinking but this sort of thing has it's very own category.

Many other sports around the world have high levels of corruption - why do we have to join the party?

  On 05/09/2015 at 04:51, Macca said:

AFL sanctioned corruption - and they're being quite open about it.

We have one comp and one prize ... that's it. The comp shouldn't be allowed to be compromised but it is being compromised right before our very eyes.

So for over 100 years this sort of thing never happened (certainly not to these extreme lengths) and now its somehow ok? I'm all for progressive thinking but this sort of thing has it's very own category.

Many other sports around the world have high levels of corruption - why do we have to join the party?

As long as Dill gets his Christmas bonus.

He is being hailed a genius for pulling off the latest broadcast rights deal

Priorities all wrong...

Can you believe Brad Scott asking for an apology? [censored].

  On 05/09/2015 at 04:36, Macca said:

I reckon they'll beat the Tigers now ... resting players works in an endurance sport like ours. Always has really.

Many of the flags that that we won were achieved with a weeks rest x 2 ... in the old final 4 days, the 2nd semi was played in week 2 of the finals and the GF was played in week 4 ... of course, that "rest" was quite within the rules.

What North & Freo are doing is against the rules in my eyes - that 'bringing the game into disrepute rule" was never more apt. So why don't the AFL apply that rule - possibly because it suits them to not do so. They must know that what North & Freo are doing is at least not in the spirit of the game.

What we watched last night was fake - it was a contrived outcome - we may as well have been watching the WWE.

Again the comparisons with soccer - the circumstances surrounding soccer and footy are vastly different.

Mourinho was asked about the last game of the EPL season last year (when they had already sewn up the title) and he said that he would be picking his best team to protect the integrity of the sport.

So it's not the same ... besides which there's traditions and different cultures to take into account ... it's not one size fits all - it's much more complex than what you're making out.

How would you feel if it was our club missing out on a finals berth on the back of another club resting half their players? Would you feel differently then? Be honest.

Bottom line is you should play finals if you win enough games..... Can't wait on other teams to loose so u can play finals..... Gotta be in control of your own destiny.....

Off the subject but when you are talking about fairness....

Our competition will never be fair as you don't play each twice.... Only 9 teams have a home ground advantage & Geelong only Vic side to have one....

If you want real home & away look & Europe football/epl .. Play each other twice....

This is a marketing comp ruled by broadcasters as to which team plays on prime time etc...

  On 05/09/2015 at 02:53, sue said:

And now there is North's miserable whinging coach saying people should apologise because 'they came out hard'. Doubtless the 9 second-raters did for obvious reasons and a few guys who know no other way, but who does Scott think he is kidding. Basically if you play a B grade team, chances are they will lose no matter hard how they go at it. Self righteous creep.

That presser was almost as farcical as the staged match. There was only one mention of "resting" by any of the media throng and even that question was soft as butter and almost apologetic as if he needed a nod of approval from Scott to ask it lol

  On 05/09/2015 at 05:31, chook fowler said:

Can you believe Brad Scott asking for an apology? [censored].

Not only that Chook, he also stated " i dont know who's made the accusations that we are throwing this match but they should be made to apologise". So if sooky Scott doesn't know who made such statements how does he even know what was supposedly said lol. Almost as if he was pre empting any further accusations and attempting to muzzle the media into not making them or even worse, merely discussing it. This was one arrogant man but he has the backing of the AFL so nothing to fear by lambasting everyone.... even the unknown knowns!

  On 05/09/2015 at 05:42, Hogan2014 said:

Bottom line is you should play finals if you win enough games..... Can't wait on other teams to loose so u can play finals..... Gotta be in control of your own destiny.....

Off the subject but when you are talking about fairness....

Our competition will never be fair as you don't play each twice.... Only 9 teams have a home ground advantage & Geelong only Vic side to have one....

If you want real home & away look & Europe football/epl .. Play each other twice....

This is a marketing comp ruled by broadcasters as to which team plays on prime time etc...

Some areas of unfairness are there and those issues need to be addressed too.

Fix all the issues and don't allow another unfair aspect in just because it's not fair elsewhere. The 22 round season isn't fair nor is the fact that some teams don't have a home ground advantage - I'm against that too.

But to allow another unfair aspect to be added just because it's not perfect elsewhere isn't logical to me.

And this issue can be fixed, make no mistake about that. The AFL have chosen this path - and it's the wrong path. They've once again let the coaches rule the roost.

Here's a scenario for you to contemplate ...

• We're inside the 8 on percentage and the team behind us can only pass us with a whopping victory
• We win our last game
• The team behind us achieves that whopping victory on the back of smashing a team that has decided to lay down for the day.
• We therefore miss the finals.

You're comfortable with that?

By the way, I'm not and the above scenario does not have to be my team for me to have that thought process.

  On 05/09/2015 at 06:19, Macca said:

Some areas of unfairness are there and those issues need to be addressed too.

Fix all the issues and don't allow another unfair aspect in just because it's not fair elsewhere. The 22 round season isn't fair nor is the fact that some teams don't have a home ground advantage - I'm against that too.

But to allow another unfair aspect to be added just because it's not perfect elsewhere isn't logical to me.

And this issue can be fixed, make no mistake about that. The AFL have chosen this path - and it's the wrong path. They've once again let the coaches rule the roost.

Here's a scenario for you to contemplate ...

• We're inside the 8 on percentage and the team behind us can only pass us with a whopping victory
• We win our last game
• The team behind us achieves that whopping victory on the back of smashing a team that has decided to lay down for the day.
• We therefore miss the finals.

You're comfortable with that?

By the way, I'm not and the above scenario does not have to be my team for me to have that thought process.

I get your point, and probably agree with you, but in the end if you miss the finals it's never because of the final round and always because of the entire 22-game season.

In the above scenario, you can be dirty on the team resting its players, but truth is if you'd won one more game earlier in the year you wouldn't have been in that position.

That said, there is undoubtedly an issue with the resting of players.