Sooner or later we are going to have an amazing win thats going to turn the club around and fill the list with confidence.

We are draftong and developing all the right types of players the last couple of years .. compettive beasts who hate to lose and happen to be able to play the game . (Hogan, Angus, Vandenberg, Viney, Kent, Salem, T Mac etc etc)

Will that club defining win come this week? Probably not. But it will come.

You mean like the Bulldogs win?

I don't believe in teams having breakout wins any more than I believe in players having breakout games.

You won't be able to pinpoint the moment the club turned, it will happen through steady increments. Besides, I thought it pretty obvious that the moment we "turn" (stop getting worse and start getting better) has already happened.

You mean like the Bulldogs win?

I don't believe in teams having breakout wins any more than I believe in players having breakout games.

You won't be able to pinpoint the moment the club turned, it will happen through steady increments. Besides, I thought it pretty obvious that the moment we "turn" (stop getting worse and start getting better) has already happened.

Where a bouts on the J curve are we Nasher?

I betcha Dawes would have told all the players around him to get back.......

I agree

It was also abundantly clear that we were missing his presenting up the ground in the last quarter, that being said Pedersen was off the ground injured so we had no bail out kick option.

IN: Dawes, M. Jones

OUT: Pedersen, Michie

I betcha Dawes would have told all the players around him to get back.......

I would think Trengove would have too but neither were there for differing reasons.

Trengove was made captain way too early but he was and hopefully will be again, a very good leader. That's why Richmond chased him...

Great stuff H. You should write a book or two about it.

I'd get Stephen King to ghost write it.

Reading the VFL report it seems M Jones continued to suffer from the butchers curse.

Ro Bail seems more likely, get the feeling Dawes didnt exactly excite, but hand might be forced.

Out: Pedersen, Michie

In: Dawes, Bail

Wouldn't surprise to see Michie get another run at it. Also wouldn't surprise to see JKH switch in for Stretch/ANB.

Reading the VFL report it seems M Jones continued to suffer from the butchers curse.

Ro Bail seems more likely, get the feeling Dawes didnt exactly excite, but hand might be forced.

Out: Pedersen, Michie

In: Dawes, Bail

Wouldn't surprise to see Michie get another run at it. Also wouldn't surprise to see JKH switch in for Stretch/ANB.

I'd be very surprised to see JKH in, since his return from a groin injury has comprised of a half of footy in the VFL development league. I'd say given that slow buildup that he is at least two more weeks away from being in contention for selection.

People seem unwilling to give Michie a proper run at things, something which he's never had. When he was given opportunity to string a few games together at the end of last season, he was more than serviceable. Not overly quick but neat skills and knows how to find the ball.

Bringing in Bail or M Jones for Michie is a waste of time. We know what they bring. A bit of leg speed coupled with habitually coughing the ball up and poor decisionmaking. Give Viv a run of a few games. If he can't cut it then so be it. But geeze, give the lad a chance.

I get that Dawes seems an obvious replacement for Pedersen. But who helps Gawn in the ruck? If Fitzpatrick is recalled to play in the backline, I can't see him pinch hitting in the ruck as well. Perhaps one of Jamar or Spencer have to play to provide that second ruck option, unless Fitzy plays a forward/ruck role. I appreciate that Dawes plus another tall changes the mix, but I just can't see Gawn doing it on his own.

I wouldn't mind seeing Bail come in for a permanent on-ball role just to see if he's up to it. I understand he got a large number of possessions at Casey in that role. It may not work, but I'm convinced he's not worth using as a defensive forward so I'd like to see him use his running capacity where it might actually be useful.

I'd be very surprised to see JKH in, since his return from a groin injury has comprised of a half of footy in the VFL development league. I'd say given that slow buildup that he is at least two more weeks away from being in contention for selection.

That was my original thought as well but just reading Plapp's comments it sounds like he dominated (his words) development and we know he can play AFL.

Last week Roos bemoaned the lack of options in VFL as well as his reluctance to bring in youth too early, given that it just wouldn't surprise me. But I otherwise agree its not likely.

People seem unwilling to give Michie a proper run at things, something which he's never had. When he was given opportunity to string a few games together at the end of last season, he was more than serviceable. Not overly quick but neat skills and knows how to find the ball.

Bringing in Bail or M Jones for Michie is a waste of time. We know what they bring. A bit of leg speed coupled with habitually coughing the ball up and poor decisionmaking. Give Viv a run of a few games. If he can't cut it then so be it. But geeze, give the lad a chance.

We all know Bail and Jones are not the solution, but they are the best of a bad bunch. If it wasn't for Newtons concussion I wod suggest him, but Michie is on the delist pile I think that Jones and Bail are better options anyway.

Even though he was just the sub he was genuinely poor and came on and was more of a liability than anything else.

And from the Casey report it seems that Dawes was on limited game time - so much so that Jordie had to come back on when he had a bad corkie - so he's unlikely to be ready to play the full match. So we're again light on for the second KPF - the options are Howe, or Watts, or even Spencer & Gawn changing at FF.

With a half-forward line of Garlett, Watts & Bail, we could really stretch their ageing defence for pace and run. But let's face it, that's only possible if the ball's in our half for about twice the usual amount of the game when we play Geelong.

Edit: Forgot about Fitzy.

Selecting Fitzy as a forward would also provide a useful swingman option if Hawkins is too big & strong for either T.Mac or Dunn.

We all know Bail and Jones are not the solution, but they are the best of a bad bunch. If it wasn't for Newtons concussion I wod suggest him, but Michie is on the delist pile I think that Jones and Bail are better options anyway.

Even though he was just the sub he was genuinely poor and came on and was more of a liability than anything else.

Yes he was poor as the sub. In his other game as the sub aaginst Richmond where he came on early, he had 19 disposals with 60% game time, many of them pivotal in creating scores. In his total of four games, the other two were against Fremantle and Hawthorn. And we're binning him based on this?

He's just turned 23. Matt Jones is approaching 28. If he gets delisted, which I don't think will happen, but if it does, we won't truly have known if he can make it at this level. Like most players, he could excel in a better side, and time is still on his side in that sense.

I'd be very surprised to see JKH in, since his return from a groin injury has comprised of a half of footy in the VFL development league. I'd say given that slow buildup that he is at least two more weeks away from being in contention for selection.

That Makes two of us Nasher

talk about mental scars.. if there is anywhere in Australia that we will feel them most it's the cattery

talk about mental scars.. if there is anywhere in Australia that we will feel them most it's the cattery

Yep I think we have won one game there in the last twenty plus years.

Still we are not coming back from Darwin so that should help.

Yes he was poor as the sub. In his other game as the sub aaginst Richmond where he came on early, he had 19 disposals with 60% game time, many of them pivotal in creating scores. In his total of four games, the other two were against Fremantle and Hawthorn. And we're binning him based on this?

He's just turned 23. Matt Jones is approaching 28. If he gets delisted, which I don't think will happen, but if it does, we won't truly have known if he can make it at this level. Like most players, he could excel in a better side, and time is still on his side in that sense.

I agree, I just think for the most part what I have seen has not shown that he has any attributes that put him as AFL standard. Bail and Jones have fitness and speed at an adequate level and I personally see them having more of a chance of keeping a spot on the list than Michie.

He cramped up after 60% game time if I recall, I just think that Bail and Jones at least play roles in the side effectively. I don't think any would be playing with a full compliment but I think they are ahead of him.

I agree, I just think for the most part what I have seen has not shown that he has any attributes that put him as AFL standard. Bail and Jones have fitness and speed at an adequate level and I personally see them having more of a chance of keeping a spot on the list than Michie.

He cramped up after 60% game time if I recall, I just think that Bail and Jones at least play roles in the side effectively. I don't think any would be playing with a full compliment but I think they are ahead of him.

Fair points. I'm still backing him in until I see reason not to, and I'll be disappointed to see him once again given the revolving door treatment at selection.

I'm not sure why some people think that certain players should be gifted games "just cos". Michie was good for a half against Richmond, and was okay at best against Freo (no tackles in that game). His performance against Hawthorn was pathetic and it sounds like he carried on with that form against St Kilda. He'll probably be around next year because he has a contract, but I can't imagine why he would be given games if he doesn't perform. Until he learns to work hard defensively, he will never be a decent player.

I think Fitzpatrick and Dawes will both play this week, with Pedersen and either Michie or Riley to miss. I don't think either Stretch or Neal-Bullen would be playing in an ideal world, but how many times can we keep cycling through the same old suspects?

After reading the Casey report I think we might be better off with Jamar than Dawes.

We can swap the 2 rucks out of the goal square and get Hogan up the ground.

In: Jamar, Fitzy

Out: Pedersen, Michie

After the bye we can get Dawes and JKH back in when they are ready to go and they should help our forward line. Hopefully Salem and Garland not too long after that.

I can't see many changes this week after a close game where we won the ball pretty well but struggled again to turn defence into attack.

Unlike many posters I thought Riley's last quarter was huge and given that both he and Neal-Bullen spent a lot of time as high half-forward, where the ball never seems to come swiftly, then you have to give them latitude for not clocking up the possessions of the others - same applies to Jeffy. One of them will probably be manned up by Enright in his 300th and both are tough tacklers so he better not hold on to it for too long - especially against Riley.

Obviously Pedo is out and while I'd prefer Fitzy to come in because he offers ruck relief which we may need, I suspect it will be Dawes.

I think Michie is probably the most likely out and based on our record of playing the 23rd the next week, I think Terlich might get his chance, although Bail has VFL form on his side.

Not sure why people think Stretch should be out - he was not bad for a third gamer and the big/wide Kardinia Park will suit him.

My guess is we'll go Terlich and Neal-Bullen will be sub, thereby increasing the likelihood of Enright having to mark Riley.

The key match-ups will be Bernie on Selwood and Grimes on Stevie J, while I actually reckon we may pull a swifty and get Jack Watts to pick up Blicavs around the ground and play Gawny as a floater.

The Cats' form of late has been good, but I hope our guys realise they are not the once feared side that they were.

Great analysis. I am not sure about Riley. However, he has not had much of a go. In one week out the next. What we do know is that a player is not going to develop and become a consistent ball winner without putting together games on a consistent basis. That goes for others as well. We are seeing it with Toumpas. Players have to build their confidence to perform. So if selectors think they have a future they need to give them consistent game time.

I think they would be reluctant to bring back Dawes this week. They shouldn't play him if he's not at a really good fitness level. It has been the issue with him all year, playing with an injury. I don't know if we will swap for another tall with Howe starting to make a decent contest. I do think Jamar might be the other inclusion but then again we haven't played two rucks much if at all this year.

Fatigue was an issue again last week and while I thought the young guys stood up really well when it kicked in I do think ANB or Billy might get a break or a sub purely based on fitness levels and the increased running at seniors level that they need to get used to.

I agree with others that Michie deserves a few full games just as Toump and Riley have been getting. Will be interesting who comes in.

You mean like the Bulldogs win?

I don't believe in teams having breakout wins any more than I believe in players having breakout games.

You won't be able to pinpoint the moment the club turned, it will happen through steady increments. Besides, I thought it pretty obvious that the moment we "turn" (stop getting worse and start getting better) has already happened.

No I doint mean like the Bulldogs win, The Dogs arent a great team, they are no better than us.

I mean a win down at Geelong or a win vs Sydney, Hawthorn, Freo etc etc

I would think Trengove would have too but neither were there for differing reasons.

Trengove was made captain way too early but he was and hopefully will be again, a very good leader. That's why Richmond chased him...

I have grave doubts he'll make it back.

I hope I'm wrong.