Let's be honest here....

Totally untouchable: Jones, Hogan, McDonald, Brayshaw, Viney, Petracca, Salem.

I'd trade anyone else for the right offer.

Let me say that again before anyone arcs up, the right offer.

Agreed - you could almost add Jetta to that list (amazing he is only 25 - feels like he's older).

Problem is do any of the rest have much trade value?

Howe is one that I think we could get something for but have to consider his value to the club (poster boy).

Garland/Dunn - probably want to retain the few decent senior players on our list (but as you said comes down to offer)

I predict that we will make around 6 - 8 delisting's depending on depth of draft and wether we can lure a free agent.

Possible delisting's:

McKenzie, Bail, Hunt, Riley, Terlich/Jones (how are they contracted till end of 2016? - maybe pay out contract(s)?)

Possible trades:

Howe, Fitzy/Dawes, Grimes (depending on small defender stocks), Toumpas (rather keep but depends on rest of year)

Possible retirees:

Jamar, Cross

Needs:

- a gun mid or 2 (to take pressure of Jones and lead the way for the young ones)

- a quality Ruckman (Jamar is probably finished, Gawn is unpredictable and Spencer I don't rate all that highly)

- a quality tall forward/2nd ruckman (Spencer/Gawn can really only play main ruck role, Dawes - not looking good, Fitzy - isn't great up forward, King - hard to tell)

Edited June 7, 201510 yr by Young Dee

I think Tyson is stronger in the contest than both Jones & Viney. The other 2 are more manic but Tyson can stand up a and release in the tackle better (when he decides) than the other 2, he is physically bigger and stronger.

I think your list is pretty much on the money 'stuie but I would add Tyson.

I like Tyson, but I've been a bit underwhelmed so far.

Agreed - you could almost add Jetta to that list (amazing he is only 25 - feels like he's older).

Problem is do any of the rest have much trade value?

Howe is one that I think we could get something for but have to consider his value to the club (poster boy).

I'd gladly trade a poster boy for a monster.

I'm grateful for Howe's speccies because they wallpaper over the fact that he's pretty useless otherwise.

Agreed - you could almost add Jetta to that list (amazing he is only 25 - feels like he's older).

Problem is do any of the rest have much trade value?

Howe is one that I think we could get something for but have to consider his value to the club (poster boy).

Garland/Dunn - probably want to retain the few decent senior players on our list (but aging comes down to offer)

I'm not saying I want to trade every single other player, I'm just saying I wouldn't even entertain offers for the guys listed.

I think guys like Frost, Kent, Tyson, Jetta, Garlett, vB, are really important players for us and a big part of our future, I just don't think they've stamped themselves as absolute untouchables just yet.

Edited June 7, 201510 yr by stuie

I'd gladly trade a poster boy for a monster.

I'm grateful for Howe's speccies because they wallpaper over the fact that he's pretty useless otherwise.

I couldn't care less about poster boys and don't really rate him either but was more thinking of the little kids. We can't expect to keep/attract young members if we don't win and play a boring brand of footy. At least through the dark days we had Jurrah, Wanna, Davey Robo etc

Edited June 7, 201510 yr by Young Dee

I couldn't care less about poster boys and don't really rate him either but was more thinking of the little kids. We can't expect to keep/attract young members if we don't win and play a boring brand of footy. At least through the dark days we had Jurrah, Wanna, Davey Robo etc

Winning will get us more young members, and at the moment Howe isn't helping us do that.

Plus, we have Hogan, Garlett, Viney and more who are pretty popular with the kids too.

Get rid of frog sh.t artists Paul Roos,Matty Brugan and anyone else who mouth's off. No player ratings and no players talking to the media i.e Dawes stating Hawthorn are for the taking…..loss 105 pts,when is the club going to learn to shut up.

I am not a Grimes fan but why doesn't Watts get dropped for being soft as a marshmellow,perhaps the Dees or should I say Roos thought he was going to produce a miracle and turn him around. Making statements we do not have the reserves like the stronger side

,who is responsible for that ? Naturally Paul Roos is ! Perhaps the club should go into liquidation then we will all be put out of our misery.

Get rid of frog sh.t artists Paul Roos,Matty Brugan and anyone else who mouth's off. No player ratings and no players talking to the media i.e Dawes stating Hawthorn are for the taking…..loss 105 pts,when is the club going to learn to shut up.

I am not a Grimes fan but why doesn't Watts get dropped for being soft as a marshmellow,perhaps the Dees or should I say Roos thought he was going to produce a miracle and turn him around. Making statements we do not have the reserves like the stronger side

,who is responsible for that ? Naturally Paul Roos is ! Perhaps the club should go into liquidation then we will all be put out of our misery.

What's a frog sh't artist ?

What's a frog sh't artist ?

Frog Sh $ t as in "Bull" frog I think :-)

Agreed - you could almost add Jetta to that list (amazing he is only 25 - feels like he's older).

Problem is do any of the rest have much trade value?

Howe is one that I think we could get something for but have to consider his value to the club (poster boy).

Garland/Dunn - probably want to retain the few decent senior players on our list (but as you said comes down to offer)

I predict that we will make around 6 - 8 delisting's depending on depth of draft and wether we can lure a free agent.

Possible delisting's:

McKenzie, Bail, Hunt, Riley, Terlich (why is he contracted till end of 2016? - maybe pay out contract?)

Possible trades:

Howe, Fitzy/Dawes, Grimes (depending on small defender stocks), Toumpas (rather keep but depends on rest of year)

Possible retirees:

Jamar, Cross

Needs:

- a gun mid or 2 (to take pressure of Jones and lead the way for the young ones)

- a quality Rickman (Jamar is probably finished, Gawn is unpredictable and Spencer I don't rate all that highly)

- a quality tall forward/2nd ruckman (Spencer/Gawn can really only play main ruck role, Dawes - not looking good, Fitzy - isn't great up forward, King - hard to tell)

Agreed - you could almost add Jetta to that list (amazing he is only 25 - feels like he's older).

Problem is do any of the rest have much trade value?

Howe is one that I think we could get something for but have to consider his value to the club (poster boy).

Garland/Dunn - probably want to retain the few decent senior players on our list (but as you said comes down to offer)

I predict that we will make around 6 - 8 delisting's depending on depth of draft and wether we can lure a free agent.

Possible delisting's:

McKenzie, Bail, Hunt, Riley, Terlich (why is he contracted till end of 2016? - maybe pay out contract?)

Possible trades:

Howe, Fitzy/Dawes, Grimes (depending on small defender stocks), Toumpas (rather keep but depends on rest of year)

Possible retirees:

Jamar, Cross

Needs:

- a gun mid or 2 (to take pressure of Jones and lead the way for the young ones)

- a quality Rickman (Jamar is probably finished, Gawn is unpredictable and Spencer I don't rate all that highly)

- a quality tall forward/2nd ruckman (Spencer/Gawn can really only play main ruck role, Dawes - not looking good, Fitzy - isn't great up forward, King - hard to tell)

Remove the word "possible" with regards to those trades. They need to get done, well at least Howe/Dawes/Grimes to free up cash to put us in a better position.

we will go nowhere if we tolerate sub standard players such as Bail, Terlich, Matt Jones, Fitz, Spencer etc. They play one good game and 5 shockers. Lack intensity and skills for the pressures of AFL at the top level.

Get rid of frog sh.t artists Paul Roos,Matty Brugan and anyone else who mouth's off. No player ratings and no players talking to the media i.e Dawes stating Hawthorn are for the taking..loss 105 pts,when is the club going to learn to shut up.

I am not a Grimes fan but why doesn't Watts get dropped for being soft as a marshmellow,perhaps the Dees or should I say Roos thought he was going to produce a miracle and turn him around. Making statements we do not have the reserves like the stronger side

,who is responsible for that ? Naturally Paul Roos is ! Perhaps the club should go into liquidation then we will all be put out of our misery.

You tell 'em Enyaw. It's Roos fault we are in this mess!

100% Roos's fault. He came into a great club, now look what he has done!

Get rid of frog sh.t artists Paul Roos,Matty Brugan and anyone else who mouth's off. No player ratings and no players talking to the media i.e Dawes stating Hawthorn are for the taking…..loss 105 pts,when is the club going to learn to shut up.

I am not a Grimes fan but why doesn't Watts get dropped for being soft as a marshmellow,perhaps the Dees or should I say Roos thought he was going to produce a miracle and turn him around. Making statements we do not have the reserves like the stronger side

,who is responsible for that ? Naturally Paul Roos is ! Perhaps the club should go into liquidation then we will all be put out of our misery.

Possibly the weirdest post I've ever read on this site.

Get rid of frog sh.t artists Paul Roos,Matty Brugan and anyone else who mouth's off. No player ratings and no players talking to the media i.e Dawes stating Hawthorn are for the taking…..loss 105 pts,when is the club going to learn to shut up.

I am not a Grimes fan but why doesn't Watts get dropped for being soft as a marshmellow,perhaps the Dees or should I say Roos thought he was going to produce a miracle and turn him around. Making statements we do not have the reserves like the stronger side

,who is responsible for that ? Naturally Paul Roos is ! Perhaps the club should go into liquidation then we will all be put out of our misery.

A proof reader's nightmare.

CBD that statement isn't quite correct as you can see below. He isn't the highest ranked in either Goal Assists or Goals per game averages so not sure where you're getting your info from. He is up there yes but not leading them as you state.

Averages Per Game

Uncontested Possessions

1. Viney (14.0)

2. N Jones (12.4)

3. T-Mac (12.1)

4. Crossy (11.89)

5. Tyson (11.86)

6. Grimes (11.7)

9. Michie (10.0)

11. Toumpas (9.4)

13. Howe (9.1)

15. Salem (8.7)

16. Fitzy (8.5)

19. Bail (8.0)

22. Watts (7.0)

Goal Assists

1. Michie (0.67)

1. M Jones (0.67)

3. Watts (0.63)

4. JKH (0.60)

5. Newton (0.57)

Goals

1. Garlett (2.0)

2. Hulk (1.7)

3. Pedo (1.2)

4. Newton (1.0)

4. Fitzy (1.0)

6. Watts (0.63)

Contested Possessions

1. Tyson (9.6)

2. N Jones (9.4)

3. Vanders (8.7... DE of 49%! ughh)

4. Crossy (8.4)

5. Vince (7.9)

10. Spencer (6.7)

12. Howe (6.1)

15. M Jones (6.0)

15. Michie (6.0)

18. Grimes (5.2)

20. Fitzy (5.0)

20. Riley (5.0)

26. Watts (4.6)

27. Toump (4.6)

I'm going to get served with divorce papers if i keep going so i'll finish up here. Let me know if you want any other particular stat averages or if you would like to know where a particular player sits that isn't listed and i'll post them when the war office is absent!

RN I had to read your stats a second time to try to justify my hunch on Watts. What your stats show are that, despite Watts being 22nd and 26th respectively in both uncontested and contested possessions, he has managed to end up 3rd and 6th respectively in goal assists and goals. That is what I was alluding to in the value of Watts. He may get less of it than most yet he generally impacts positively on the result. If he got more of the ball, his impact on the goals would be greater still. There is upside in keeping him IMHO!

p.s. It worries me the stat that the only two ahead of him in goal assists are Mitchie and Matt Jones, both of whom I rate as less value. Assess these stats carefully is my advice.

Edited June 7, 201510 yr by CBDees

Here's a stat - ability to stand up and perform consistently under pressure. Could be measured in %.

Sick of hearing a certain player is an "outside" player, is that meant to justify poor performances? Because plenty of other teams have outside players that play pretty consistent football.

And to those who then hide behind "the coach praised this aspect of his game", is the coach going to hang him out to dry with media when he's obviously already mentally weak and potentially on the trade table at years end?

This is not just about Watts it's about 1/3- 1/2 half the bloody list. We should simplify things and use the stat "not upto AFL standard and never will be" or "plays on his terms".

I think we will win today and if we do I don't suddenly think everyone is untouchable because I've seen how these same players have performed against the Hawks/Swans/Freo. I just don't rate Collingwood that highly this year.

Then we've got the chorus of "well if they're not motivated after listening to Neale they never will be" or the "this is our grand final" again both crap. How about they're highly paid sportsman, is that not motivation enough.

Don't worry though because half the team will let us know when they're ready to have a crack.

Edited June 7, 201510 yr by Al's Demons

we will go nowhere if we tolerate sub standard players such as Bail, Terlich, Matt Jones, Fitz, Spencer etc. They play one good game and 5 shockers. Lack intensity and skills for the pressures of AFL at the top level.

Those NQRs are not the problem its the Howe Grimes Watts Toumpas that should be leading the club and they are simply not

Interesting reading Rusty. Thanks.

Shows up some of the comments (biases) on DL as being inaccurate or partially complete.

What struck me is the performance of Cross: top 5 in contested poss, uncontested poss and effective disposals.

If he keeps that up in the 2nd half he is still a required player IMO.

Wouldn't be retiring him just yet!

What have you made of Tyson's year so far, rjay?

He's been disappointing so far this year 'Yossarian', he had a good preseason and was set up to go. The only excuses I could give are maybe injury and that he is being targeted more by the oppo, but I think this was happening last year anyway.

Roos seems to be on his back about taking first option so maybe his confidence is down a bit.

I expect he will bounce back but would be concerned about the bandage that seems to be a regular companion on his knee.

Evan though his production has been way down on last year I think he still gives us a lot more than most and at worst he takes some focus off Jones, the oppo have to put serious work into him.

He's been disappointing so far this year 'Yossarian', he had a good preseason and was set up to go. The only excuses I could give are maybe injury and that he is being targeted more by the oppo, but I think this was happening last year anyway.

Roos seems to be on his back about taking first option so maybe his confidence is down a bit.

I expect he will bounce back but would be concerned about the bandage that seems to be a regular companion on his knee.

Evan though his production has been way down on last year I think he still gives us a lot more than most and at worst he takes some focus off Jones, the oppo have to put serious work into him.

Every player should be targeting their opponent every game and should expect to be targeted themselves.If he's carrying an injury he shouldn't be playing like Tyson.

I think tyson is effectively suffering second year blues, but its not his second year, broke out last year, good pre season and seemingly can't recapture that form, i get the sense its between the ears hence the run at casey to remember how to domimate

Extremely difficult to become A Grade if you lack pace and can't go either side like a slow Sam Mitchell can to get out of trouble. GWS knew which one to let go. Too left sided, too slow, very average foot skills even on preferred side, and obviously never had to hand ball the thing growing up as very poor by hand, no right hand at all.

Extremely difficult to become A Grade if you lack pace and can't go either side like a slow Sam Mitchell can to get out of trouble. GWS knew which one to let go. Too left sided, too slow, very average foot skills even on preferred side, and obviously never had to hand ball the thing growing up as very poor by hand, no right hand at all.

Give the kid a break he was a good player last year and this year has had knee injury for most of the year.

The poor guy,s biggest problem is he is human.

I suspect a few guys are playing for the futures at the MFC today.

Anything less than a close loss could be the end for a few.

After last weekend I think several have big ? Over their abilities be that physical or mentally.

The result today IMO could be a turning point for a number of players and the club in general.

A large loss means we have come very little distance since the end of 2013 and several players might pay the price.