Just an excuse to cover up lack of ability now P-man

Probably right.

Lack of ability and mental fragility

Same traits exist from years gone by

Roos is speaking the truth. Leadership group is filled with players who are not leaders

Capitulation under pressure is what happens when the thin Gaffer Tape snaps....

Just an excuse to cover up lack of ability now P-man

Exactly! I bet you he'd love to say exactly what he thinks. This is what I'd imagine he wish he could say.....

I've been here two drafts, and have got rid of as many crap players as list management rules allow. This is a full list rebuild. I've gotten rid of 22 bloody players and still we've got players who can't kick, man up, tackle or have guts. Line is in the sand now for the remaining 18-20 other players, start playing like an AFL player or you're out.

Edited June 2, 201510 yr by Wormburner

Exactly! I bet you he'd love to say exactly what he thinks. This is what I'd imagine he wish he could say.....

I've been here two drafts, and have got rid of as many crap players as list management rules allow. This is a full list rebuild. I've gotten rid of 22 bloody players and still we've got players who can't kick, man up, tackle or have guts. Line is in the sand now for the remaining 18-20 other players, start playing like an AFL player or you're out.

CS must be so proud of his tenure

It is not often one person can actually get everything wrong!!

Apart from the MCC alignment it all failed. His list management could not have been worse

We still have to endure it.

None of our senior players will ever play September imo

Saturday proved it to me. To fall over and stop without even a cameo fightback is a disgrace

Did you kind of just glean or skim my post?

The above doesn't really follow...

No, I read it. You make it clear that his comments might not help with their confidence. But what he said is still a tough reality: it's gotten to a point now where you can't just sit back and say, "Oh they're low on confidence, I better not let them know that their job is on the line."

The club has made such a hard effort to instil coaching and administrative stability, get a good coach, provide good off-field facilities. Stability is key to an efficient work force but at the same time when you're handed everything you can't just expect to keep trotting along and that people won't notice or hold you to account for it.

They've been given the keys to the front door, but they keep trying to break through the window. When you do that you're probably going to cut yourself on the glass.

Dunn has been playing since, what, 2006? Why is he playing the way he's playing? We all know he's better than that. Why is Jones playing his worst football for 5-6 years? Why does Vince go missing in ways never seen while he was in Adelaide? Mind boggling stuff.

No, I read it. You make it clear that his comments might not help with their confidence. But what he said is still a tough reality: it's gotten to a point now where you can't just sit back and say, "Oh they're low on confidence, I better not let them know that their job is on the line."

The club has made such a hard effort to instil coaching and administrative stability, get a good coach, provide good off-field facilities. Stability is key to an efficient work force but at the same time when you're handed everything you can't just expect to keep trotting along and that people won't notice or hold you to account for it.

They've been given the keys to the front door, but they keep trying to break through the window. When you do that you're probably going to cut yourself on the glass.

Dunn has been playing since, what, 2006? Why is he playing the way he's playing? We all know he's better than that. Why is Jones playing his worst football for 5-6 years? Why does Vince go missing in ways never seen while he was in Adelaide? Mind boggling stuff.

Yeah, no-one knows why the ability to execute deserts the players so quickly en masse, and I certainly would not say it is Roos' fault, but it certainly is his problem, and his job to remedy.

To that end, I don't envy his job, but it is his job.

My argument was completely different to what others were saying. Some were questioning whether he could actually coach. I have no problems with his coaching, he has improved us significantly.

But my arguement is that when we lose he pulls out the same [censored] weak excuse only to cover his ass. We have turned over half the list since those dark days. When is he going to put his hand up and start taking responsibility for these losses?

The actual reasons are a combination of a lack of talent, a lack of effort, a lack of intensity and a lack of experience (to different degrees in different players). To cap it off there is a lack of on-field leadership. That our best players don't play in the midfield and our midfield has had our last three captains.

We have a weak culture, no on-field leadership and no-one heeding the call under pressure. He's been giving players 'a cuddle' for 18 months. Time for them perform or find another job. Where are the excuses? It isn't game style - we have at least two or three styles of play; it isn't player selection. The coach cannot tackle for them and he cannot invent a midfield overnight.

Do you need help finding the bag?

No, it isn't hard to understand. It's patently obvious.

But do you also accept the reasoning that they are spooked by the past? Because that is essentially shifting blame.

Take responsibility. There are no excuses. If they're not good enough, that's the beginning and end of it.

I have a huge amount of respect for Roos. It's why I take more interest in what he says.

'P-man', you do know not to trust anything Roos says...the one thing he did say that led to this is "I'm not going to tell you", in response to Robbo. Then he left a few breadcrumbs on the table for him, going on about spooked by the past.

He knows what he's doing, he's just not letting on. Don't believe all his spooked stuff, that's the red herring. He knows there is not enough talent but you don't come out and say that when you are trying to get a good price for it at the end of the year. Think Silvia, Frawley, Clark...

'P-man', you do know not to trust anything Roos says...the one thing he did say that led to this is "I'm not going to tell you", in response to Robbo. Then he left a few breadcrumbs on the table for him, going on about spooked by the past.

He knows what he's doing, he's just not letting on. Don't believe all his spooked stuff, that's the red herring. He knows there is not enough talent but you don't come out and say that when you are trying to get a good price for it at the end of the year. Think Silvia, Frawley, Clark...

If it's nothing more than a smokescreen, then so be it. I take it that means you also think the past continuing to haunt them is bollocks. Young Hogan in his presser did his best to say as much without actually disagreeing with the coach.

I'm still not convinced the public messaging doesn't filter through. but I accept I'm in the minority there. The players who it might most affect probably won't be here next season anyhow.

I had to join to comment on this thread... Hello all.

Who honestly thinks Grimes stepped down from Captaincy himself?

Or thinks Watts dropped himself??

Roos is forcing accountability; you drop yourself, then you expect yourself to be better.

An insecure coach would chest beat and shame those players, ruining them. Sound familiar?

Grimes is a better player for the beating Roos gave him, dropped as captain, dropped from the team.

He put to Watts the reality, it's up to Watts. 50/50 ball, some things in football will never change.

Bail, M Jones, Fitz are all given their opportunity, given a role. Accountable or roll.

A few will step up - Garland did last week. Grimes has this season. Jetta last season.

He's protecting the young players.

I'll bet Brayshaw will go into this game knowing it will be his last for a month, QB reward for opening block.

Resting Viney / Tyson / Salem / Kent / Frost / Hogan until they are absolutely fit to play - while the older players can carry injury (Vince).

N Jones is struggling with Captaincy. But he will rise and become a greater player for it, or fall away. Either way he needs that challenge.

Roos isn't just trying to win games, he's building a winning side.

I had to join to comment on this thread... Hello all.

Who honestly thinks Grimes stepped down from Captaincy himself?

Or thinks Watts dropped himself??

Roos is forcing accountability; you drop yourself, then you expect yourself to be better.

An insecure coach would chest beat and shame those players, ruining them. Sound familiar?

Grimes is a better player for the beating Roos gave him, dropped as captain, dropped from the team.

He put to Watts the reality, it's up to Watts. 50/50 ball, some things in football will never change.

Bail, M Jones, Fitz are all given their opportunity, given a role. Accountable or roll.

A few will step up - Garland did last week. Grimes has this season. Jetta last season.

He's protecting the young players.

I'll bet Brayshaw will go into this game knowing it will be his last for a month, QB reward for opening block.

Resting Viney / Tyson / Salem / Kent / Frost / Hogan until they are absolutely fit to play - while the older players can carry injury (Vince).

N Jones is struggling with Captaincy. But he will rise and become a greater player for it, or fall away. Either way he needs that challenge.

Roos isn't just trying to win games, he's building a winning side.

a good positive opinion I like it.

I had to join to comment on this thread... Hello all.

Who honestly thinks Grimes stepped down from Captaincy himself?

Or thinks Watts dropped himself??

Roos is forcing accountability; you drop yourself, then you expect yourself to be better.

An insecure coach would chest beat and shame those players, ruining them. Sound familiar?

Grimes is a better player for the beating Roos gave him, dropped as captain, dropped from the team.

He put to Watts the reality, it's up to Watts. 50/50 ball, some things in football will never change.

Bail, M Jones, Fitz are all given their opportunity, given a role. Accountable or roll.

A few will step up - Garland did last week. Grimes has this season. Jetta last season.

He's protecting the young players.

I'll bet Brayshaw will go into this game knowing it will be his last for a month, QB reward for opening block.

Resting Viney / Tyson / Salem / Kent / Frost / Hogan until they are absolutely fit to play - while the older players can carry injury (Vince).

N Jones is struggling with Captaincy. But he will rise and become a greater player for it, or fall away. Either way he needs that challenge.

Roos isn't just trying to win games, he's building a winning side.

Welcome aboard numero deca

Interesting observations. Especially the last.. He did indeed state it wasnt about wins but they would come once you learn the game etc Much learning yet to happen it would seem.

The actual reasons are a combination of a lack of talent, a lack of effort, a lack of intensity and a lack of experience (to different degrees in different players). To cap it off there is a lack of on-field leadership. That our best players don't play in the midfield and our midfield has had our last three captains.

We have a weak culture, no on-field leadership and no-one heeding the call under pressure. He's been giving players 'a cuddle' for 18 months. Time for them perform or find another job. Where are the excuses? It isn't game style - we have at least two or three styles of play; it isn't player selection. The coach cannot tackle for them and he cannot invent a midfield overnight.

Do you need help finding the bag?

BTW, it is also a brilliant strategy for moving players. He is not saying "that bloke is dead-set weak, cannot learn etc", he is saying "they need a new environment".

We've heard that line before.

BTW, it is also a brilliant strategy for moving players. He is not saying "that bloke is dead-set weak, cannot learn etc", he is saying "they need a new environment".

We've heard that line before.

He must have some interesting piles on his desk... players>keep players>still evaluating players>trade players>to get players>who just arent players

He must have some interesting piles on his desk... players>keep players>still evaluating players>trade players>to get players>who just arent players

The last one would be the biggest bb

BTW, it is also a brilliant strategy for moving players. He is not saying "that bloke is dead-set weak, cannot learn etc", he is saying "they need a new environment".

We've heard that line before.

Yep. All about playing up the Melbourne blame game so other teams think they can pull players with 'potential' out of the mire.

I think the only problem is now there is a solid history of other clubs not being able to do that with our ex-players.

Its just the big loss cycle, we win against the Pies and everyone will be applauding Roos as the new Saviour again...

We've had a tough draw and been beaten well by last years final four whom we've had the misfortune to play in the past month and a bit...

I reckon we are at a better win-loss then most would have predicted, given:

• our other two losses were against GWS and Adelaide, both in the top 8 and
• we've beaten two teams (Doggies and Tigers) placed above us, and
• played only one team below us (GC)

Would love it to be better, but it's better than last year...

and the year before that...

and the year before that.

Edited June 2, 201510 yr by PaulRB

If it's nothing more than a smokescreen, then so be it. I take it that means you also think the past continuing to haunt them is bollocks. Young Hogan in his presser did his best to say as much without actually disagreeing with the coach.

I'm still not convinced the public messaging doesn't filter through. but I accept I'm in the minority there. The players who it might most affect probably won't be here next season anyhow.

I think we have a group of players not up to the level and some of our better players are having to carry the load, that's part of the fade out problem. They can't carry the passengers.

There will be another large turnover through delisting and trade at the end of the year.

Even Yoda has a breaking point. Sounds like Roos is pretty close to his.

More list changes coming.

Still, you see it all around you, it's not just footy - people who just don't or can't or won't do what they need to, because ... well, just because. And you end up scratching your head and thinking "if only you knew how close you were".

I think we have a group of players not up to the level ...

Part of it, not all of it. How is it that our best players last week was an 18 year old kid?

Roos' Sydney was full of players who were "not up to the level". But they did what they needed to and played as a team.

Even Yoda has a breaking point. Sounds like Roos is pretty close to his.

More list changes coming.

Still, you see it all around you, it's not just footy - people who just don't or can't or won't do what they need to, because ... well, just because. And you end up scratching your head and thinking "if only you knew how close you were".

I cannot agree with that last line

A large number at the MFC will never be close bing

there was always list changes coming.. just a matter of who and howe many !!

I cannot agree with that last line

A large number at the MFC will never be close bing

I think Bing means close to ..... getting the flick OD

I cannot agree with that last line

A large number at the MFC will never be close bing

I suspect we'll never know.

i'm not to concerned about how many get the flick

i'm more concerned about the quality of who we sign up. there's 17 other clubs all desperate for talent

more realistic to think in terms of a (another) rebuild and hope for a bit of luck (for a change)