Them hiring Stephen Trigg will have the same results as us hiring Cameron Schwab

Both had poisonous histories. Carlton really screwed up when they could have learned a lesson from us in not how to hire staff.

"Poisonous histories". Give it a break.

It's amazing the amount of history revision that goes on around here about Cameron Schwab.

In the first instance, people who take over dysfunctional organisations are expected to achieve results, not win popularity contests. He might have trod on a few toes at Freo when he took over as CEO of that basket case in 2001 after the club had experienced their worst ever season, sacking their coach mid-year and winning only two games for the year but he immediately

* improved club finances substantially and when he left, the club was considerably stronger in that area;

* the club made the finals for the first time in 2003 winning 14 and losing 8 games in the home and away season. In 2006, the year before he left they made the preliminary final.

It's generally accepted that the period of his tenure laid the groundwork for the power house club that is Fremantle today.

After he arrived at Melbourne, he improved its financial base from $5m in the red to substantially in the black but we know it was the team's poor on field performance that brought the club down and whilst we can argue till we're red and blue in the face about who and what was at fault for that - poor recruiting, poor coaching, "tanking" (which incidentally got Hawthorn and Collingwood to premierships), there's no doubt in my mind that, even though he properly accepted responsibility when he stood down, he's still copping a bad rap from the distorters of history and even from those whose toes he trod on early in the piece and who fought so hard to bring him down. We're still feeling the consequences of that power struggle today.

Now, if you're going to bag Schwab for his performance at Fremantle, why not compare it to what's happening at Melbourne today. In his third season with the Dockers that club won 14 games and lost 9 (including a final). Peter Jackson is in his third season at Melbourne and his continuing appointment for a further season is being hailed by most but we've only won seven games since he came on board. Our coach Paul Roos has notched up six wins from 29 games to date with the benefit of some excellent recruiting and we're mostly satisfied and prepared to give him more time to lift the club. By contrast, Mark Neeld was expected to recruit off the smell of an oily rag while ditching disaffected players and his record from his first 29 games was five wins (the same record as Dean Bailey who lasted almost four years) and by that time the knives were firmly planted in his back and he was on his way out of the door.

I'm not suggesting any sackings or further turmoil but let's not get things out of context when discussing our past history and let's not demean people who worked hard to do their job at the club and remained loyal to the end.

Go and tell Freo supporters how good Schwab was for them and see what response you get.

They are quickly taking our place as the leagues car wreck.

No just joining us and Brisbane in the wreckage.

Go and tell Freo supporters how good Schwab was for them and see what response you get.

I've done that and it's only a small minority who had any issues with him. Most appreciate his work for a club that was broke and won two games in the year before he arrived and had never played in a final let alone won one.

Go and tell Freo supporters how good Schwab was for them and see what response you get.

Schwab did a very good job at Freo turning the finances around to become a financially strong club.

Schwab did a very poor job at Melbourne not turning the finances around and we became an AFL basket case and bail out.

I wouldn't be so smug about Carlton, they are last on the table of pressure acts in the competition, but guess who is second last?

Schwab did a very good job at Freo turning the finances around to become a financially strong club.

Schwab did a very poor job at Melbourne not turning the finances around and we became an AFL basket case and bail out.

pretty well summed up there

pretty well summed up there

As I indicated above in my post Bub, the chain of causation is a lot more complex than that and there is certainly a fair amount of debate about our financial state then and now and because of the structures of the AFL whether the "bail out" was even a "bail out" given that the latest statistics show that we receive less from the AFL than a number of other clubs in circumstances where AFL funding is called anything but "bail out" money.

We certainly don't have the financial benefit of playing on the main AFL stage every second Friday night as Carlton does.

As I indicated above in my post Bub, the chain of causation is a lot more complex than that and there is certainly a fair amount of debate about our financial state then and now and because of the structures of the AFL whether the "bail out" was even a "bail out" given that the latest statistics show that we receive less from the AFL than a number of other clubs in circumstances where AFL funding is called anything but "bail out" money.

We certainly don't have the financial benefit of playing on the main AFL stage every second Friday night as Carlton does.

maybe not

and it may well be a far too simplistic view WJ...but my comment was..'summed up" The sum is the result..The result is...??well do you really want to argue it. We were stuffed.

As I indicated above in my post Bub, the chain of causation is a lot more complex than that and there is certainly a fair amount of debate about our financial state then and now and because of the structures of the AFL whether the "bail out" was even a "bail out" given that the latest statistics show that we receive less from the AFL than a number of other clubs in circumstances where AFL funding is called anything but "bail out" money.

We certainly don't have the financial benefit of playing on the main AFL stage every second Friday night as Carlton does.

Just on that, why DO Carlton get so many Friday night games?

Just curious, not looking for a gotcha moment or anything.

True ... but even the most one eyed observer like Caro who has no love for Schwab once had a different view of his role - Schwab is Dees' unsung hero

Still, he should take plenty of credit for Melbourne's new place in the game - a club free of debt, rich with young, on-field talent, anchored at not one but two smart new training bases and back on good terms not only with its rich heritage but also with head office.

The result at the end was that we were stuffed and Schwab did the honourable thing and admitted responsibility.

But was he the sole reason for the fact that we were stuffed?

I don't think so ... by a long way.

True ... but even the most one eyed observer like Caro who has no love for Schwab once had a different view of his role - Schwab is Dees' unsung hero

The result at the end was that we were stuffed and Schwab did the honourable thing and admitted responsibility.

But was he the sole reason for the fact that we were stuffed?

I don't think so ... by a long way.

no solely resposible..just the one responsible

I have heard Mark Neeld is available.

Neeld, Prendergast and Schwab - now there's an A team.

Much as I am enjoying Carlton's struggles, perhaps schadenfreude is a bit premature - bring it on if/when we beat them, and more so if we can for the first time in years string together some wins.

"Poisonous histories". Give it a break.

It's amazing the amount of history revision that goes on around here about Cameron Schwab.

In the first instance, people who take over dysfunctional organisations are expected to achieve results, not win popularity contests. He might have trod on a few toes at Freo when he took over as CEO of that basket case in 2001 after the club had experienced their worst ever season, sacking their coach mid-year and winning only two games for the year but he immediately

* improved club finances substantially and when he left, the club was considerably stronger in that area;

* the club made the finals for the first time in 2003 winning 14 and losing 8 games in the home and away season. In 2006, the year before he left they made the preliminary final.

It's generally accepted that the period of his tenure laid the groundwork for the power house club that is Fremantle today.

After he arrived at Melbourne, he improved its financial base from $5m in the red to substantially in the black but we know it was the team's poor on field performance that brought the club down and whilst we can argue till we're red and blue in the face about who and what was at fault for that - poor recruiting, poor coaching, "tanking" (which incidentally got Hawthorn and Collingwood to premierships), there's no doubt in my mind that, even though he properly accepted responsibility when he stood down, he's still copping a bad rap from the distorters of history and even from those whose toes he trod on early in the piece and who fought so hard to bring him down. We're still feeling the consequences of that power struggle today.

Now, if you're going to bag Schwab for his performance at Fremantle, why not compare it to what's happening at Melbourne today. In his third season with the Dockers that club won 14 games and lost 9 (including a final). Peter Jackson is in his third season at Melbourne and his continuing appointment for a further season is being hailed by most but we've only won seven games since he came on board. Our coach Paul Roos has notched up six wins from 29 games to date with the benefit of some excellent recruiting and we're mostly satisfied and prepared to give him more time to lift the club. By contrast, Mark Neeld was expected to recruit off the smell of an oily rag while ditching disaffected players and his record from his first 29 games was five wins (the same record as Dean Bailey who lasted almost four years) and by that time the knives were firmly planted in his back and he was on his way out of the door.

I'm not suggesting any sackings or further turmoil but let's not get things out of context when discussing our past history and let's not demean people who worked hard to do their job at the club and remained loyal to the end.

Give it a break 'Jack'.

Next you will be telling us he was our saviour.

He should never have come back to the MFC...

Comprehension doesn't seem to be many peoples' strong point does it?

Give it a break 'Jack'.

Next you will be telling us he was our saviour.

He should never have come back to the MFC...

Comprehension doesn't seem to be many peoples' strong point does it?

History seems to be a problem for some...

True ... but even the most one eyed observer like Caro who has no love for Schwab once had a different view of his role - Schwab is Dees' unsung hero

The result at the end was that we were stuffed and Schwab did the honourable thing and admitted responsibility.

But was he the sole reason for the fact that we were stuffed?

I don't think so ... by a long way.

As the CEO he is completely responsible

After 186 he should have walked.......Head bowed....

We'll never know who really was to 'blame' for Melbourne falling in such an appalling malaise in the late 2000s. The club was simply so bitterly divided that nothing worked, nothing could be achieved.

Most of all, everyone wanted a seat at every table and there was as much second guessing, foot-dragging and side agendas at the Melbourne Football Club around 2010 as the French Army in 1940.

I gave Schwab a lot, a LOT, of benefit of the doubt for a very long time, and the circumstances were all kinds of messed up. But as CEO of the Demons he failed.

Carlton... well, Steven Trigg is fighting his own internal war of attrition, and I'm not sure I like any of the sides. It will be fascinating to see how that club copes with the renewed prospect of sustained failure.

True ... but even the most one eyed observer like Caro who has no love for Schwab once had a different view of his role - Schwab is Dees' unsung hero

The result at the end was that we were stuffed and Schwab did the honourable thing and admitted responsibility.

But was he the sole reason for the fact that we were stuffed?

I don't think so ... by a long way.

That was in 2010 just after the debt collection from members.

Caro was taken to task on this article on 3AW a year or so ago. She advised that issues about Schwab started arising post that article and the disaster that was MFC up until the AFL bailed it out occurred.

And while the CEO takes a fair swig of the responsibility an equal amount should be taken by the Board at that time that appointed him, then reappointed him in 2011 and then mysteriously extended his contract in late 2012 during the middle of a serious AFL investigation then sacked him 3 months later. Go figure.

You are right Schwab was not solely to blame but he was leading act in a Keystone cops circus from 2009 to 2013.

That was in 2010 just after the debt collection from members.

Caro was taken to task on this article on 3AW a year or so ago. She advised that issues about Schwab started arising post that article and the disaster that was MFC up until the AFL bailed it out occurred.

And while the CEO takes a fair swig of the responsibility an equal amount should be taken by the Board at that time that appointed him, then reappointed him in 2011 and then mysteriously extended his contract in late 2012 during the middle of a serious AFL investigation then sacked him 3 months later. Go figure.

You are right Schwab was not solely to blame but he was leading act in a Keystone cops circus from 2009 to 2013.

The board were a huge part of this mess. Some of the things they allowed to happen are simply beyond belief.

And the Bluebaggers are at it yet again. Not singing from the same hymn sheet this time...

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/carlton-boss-wont-let-mick-malthouse-comments-slip-20150522-gh7soc.html

And the Bluebaggers are at it yet again. Not singing from the same hymn sheet this time...

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/carlton-boss-wont-let-mick-malthouse-comments-slip-20150522-gh7soc.html

Mick is a fool for staying now. He should pack his blue bag and leave on his terms and for them to continue their own tumultuous decline. I know it goes against the grain for mouse but why would you bother ...life's too short. Eddie will buy him a beer I'm sure

Carlton are playing like Melbourne.

Wow, who was the genius that gave Carlton four Friday night games in the first eight rounds?