Watch the replay because I remember thinking Toump is getting to the contests and helping out as a junior player should. After the replay I have no idea what game people have been watching. It is the Sydney game right? He ran to contests, held tackles, ran back and manned up when others have up running. You can criticise some of his disposal (like any player) but he runs. He gets into posission and he is trying to learn his craft. Let the kid learn like we are letting our other boys learn.

The sad thing is, we've seen them attack. Especially in round 1. I struggle to believe that they're under instructions not to attack. The ball use was *horrendously* slow in the first half; by the time they disposed of the ball, Sydney had completely shut down every option. I don't consider myself much of a footy analyst but the TV cameras were favourable, and even I could see the options closing down in front of my eyes, while our player just held on to the ball. On the odd occasion we moved the ball with a bit of speed, we looked dangerous. We've got at least two genuine, serious scoreboard threats in Hogan and Garlett, we are just incapable of getting the ball down there quickly enough.

I don't know what the answer is. It's bloody frustrating.

This is spot on and the main thing I took from last night.

So frustrating and I don't know why it happens.

Simple... Re-sign D Martin! Why we ever let him go... He is our missing link!

News to me.

Simple... Re-sign D Martin! Why we ever let him go... He is our missing link!

S Martin*

We played as we train.

No pressure on the ball carrier, whether that be defence or attack.

Sydney rag dolled us all night.

They train to do that, we don't.

Don't tell whatshisface the well connected one. He'll get his nose out of joint ;-)

Is it worth giving Mckenzie at least a full game?

No

oops... a bit Freudian in my slip... Stef, I meant Stef!

Thought the Coaching has been poor for the 2nd week running.

When will they learn you don't leave a loose man in defence in good sides, as they carve you up, just like McVeigh did last night. he must have set up 7-8 of their goals.

Just play 7 forwards so each man is accountable.

The game was over early, just like against Freo, because of a loose man who set up scores.

last year we lost by 4 goals 7 points in 2014 to the swans this year it was 5 goals 8 points,how have we improved?.… would be nice for Paul to answer this.

Surely you can't gauge improvement like that.....

Surely you can't gauge improvement like that.....

ENYAW can. So that's ok!!

On the petracca to hawthorn thing, kids contracted and Hawks would want to offer up a couple of good players to get him

Surely can't be true..... If so makes a complete mockery off the draft which is meant to be an equalisation tool.....

I think it's time you looked at reality Song

This club is still playing timid football 10 years down the track...

Why do you even bother? Why not just turn off the internet and wear a hair shirt and get your angst that way?

What's the point when we don't give ourselves a chance from the beginning? You can sugar coat a 30-minute period as much as you want, but no supporter base deserves a first 2.5 quarters like we saw. I Disagree with most of the optimism to come from the game. We have to run, carry and have a proper forward set up from the beginning. There's no way we can out grind teams like Freo and Sydney, they're just too talented

What's the point when we don't give ourselves a chance from the beginning? You can sugar coat a 30-minute period as much as you want, but no supporter base deserves a first 2.5 quarters like we saw. I Disagree with most of the optimism to come from the game. We have to run, carry and have a proper forward set up from the beginning. There's no way we can out grind teams like Freo and Sydney, they're just too talented

Reality is the gap of the top 4 teams is evident...we just don't have the talent, fitness & size to compete against teams like, freo, swans, Hawks.... As hard as it sounds we are expecting our top ups & young unseasoned talent to compete against premiership & finals seasoned bodies... perspective

There was only about 25000 there tonight and im tipping a fair few of those who are posting on here were watching from the comfort of their couches. An issue for another day but poor turnout by YOU.

Being at the ground we worked hard to pressure and harrass Sydney but where we kept getting hammered was not pinning the ball or the player in the tackles and contested situations. Far too many times we got tackled and the ball was either held up or turned over and then when the swans players were tackled they either broke them or got the ball free and out to a player who moved it on quickly. Quite simply, we were completely outmuscled around the contest tonight. There is no quick fix for that as it takes time to build our young midfielders up and we simply dont have the same amoutn of tall strong midfield beasts to compete with both Freo and Sydney.

The Swans were far better at their transition from defence to attack and held their structure better so that they always had an option to kick too on the break. And they hit targets.

Too often our forwards were sucked too far up the ground leaving no marking targets at half forward or loose swans there. This is where those watching on TV will never get an understanding of what is going on. Multiple times the demons were moving out of half back and there was literally nobody to kick the ball too. That's what then causes hesitation and indecision and that is when they then turn the ball over or stuff it up.

Picket Fence please give it a rest. You are so Toumpas focussed you cannot see past your nose. He was so far from our worst tonight its not funny. He ran hard, competed hard and when there was an option available he took it. But when your only target is garlett amongst three swans defenders i don't blame him for hesitating or trying the impossible.

People say Watts had no impact, again, he was the sub so pretty hard to influence the game from there. When he came on the game was over but he still had a crack. Again not the problem.

At the ground Pyke absolutely destroyed Spencer. Spencer offers absolutely nothing. I have always said he competes hard but that does not cut it at AFL level when you are a liability otheriwse. A horrid passage of play occurred when he gave a handball off to jonesy running through half back but then failed to follow up and support by laying the block/shepherd and it resulted in jonesy getting smashed. He has absolutely no football nouse nor skills.

Howe was poor tonight. Dunn had a bad night. Dawes was sucked too far up the ground and even still didn't offer much. But quite simply- we were hammered by a bigger, stronger, faster, fitter and more skilled team. Anyone with common sense should be able to see that. We competed hard- drawing even or thereabouts in many of the contested categories but you cannot change phyisics and these simple facts.

Next week will be more of the same. It is the weeks after that where we might have some hope again.

Agree with all of that but Spencer. Thought he competed really well. We may have been watching two different games. I'd also say (and you do touch on this, GOAG) our biggest problem last night was that we didn't work hard enough to present options for our team mates. This resulted in either turn overs or slow ball movement. If you don't move the ball quickly against a slow Swans side you'll get smashed.

Watch the replay because I remember thinking Toump is getting to the contests and helping out as a junior player should. After the replay I have no idea what game people have been watching. It is the Sydney game right? He ran to contests, held tackles, ran back and manned up when others have up running. You can criticise some of his disposal (like any player) but he runs. He gets into posission and he is trying to learn his craft. Let the kid learn like we are letting our other boys learn.

Thought it was probably his best game in MFC colours. People get so blindsided by their opinion of some players that their default position is to simply opine that the player delivered an ordinary performance. It's the reverse rose-coloured glasses.

last year we lost by 4 goals 7 points in 2014 to the swans this year it was 5 goals 8 points,how have we improved?.… would be nice for Paul to answer this.

Soooooooooo good!

Its fun reading how some players are marked and how the criticism gets justified but others float by.

Toumpas first game back in for a grand total of 20th with probably third as the sub has 7 kicks 7 handballs at 71%.

Newton has 7 kicks and 7 handballs at 71% including two shocking errors early in the game.

Spencer after half time was clearly the better ruckman and had the second most tackles and second most clearances in his first game back. Pike who some claim is a second rate ruckman was second for contested grabs in the league last year, achieved the tap out record in one game last week and has only been beaten by Sandilands all year. Jamar showed at VFL he is done and Gawn did some good things but does not work half as hard as Spencer.

Watts comes on and was clean and serviceable. Howe floats by in another lazy, disinterested soft game.

My main disappointment was we seemed so focussed on halving the stoppages with them last night that no held position and no had interest to spread when we had the ball.

Tyson needs to face criticism for his inability to spread or if he is that injured try and get right whatever is wrong. JKH's workrate is appalling and he needs to have a long stint at Casey. Hopefully Viney back so Vince can be let off the leash as we are now missing his attacking creativity whilst he is more focussed on the tag.

Thank you, BRFE. Someone else was watching the game I was. Agree with everything above.

We have played 4 of the top 5 teams to date. I was at the ground tonight and we were never in it, but well into the last quarter had 7 goals to their 11... wrist slashing is somewhat premature! Salem is not going to be a half-back for much longer. Billy showed he is a quality player, even at this early stage. McDonald continues to have an All Australian year. Hogan continues to impress. Garlett and Lumumba continue to be very good additions. I thought Newton was a handy contributor... just focusing on recent additions... not all bad news!

Loved Billy's first two tackles. Crunchers. Plays a lot tougher than his old man.

And can the ruckmen just watch the bounce of the ball instead of their opponent then going for the ball.

We couldn't work out why the hell our mids didn't work out the boundary umpire was throwing in shallow throws all night. If we had, we might have won a few more clearances around the ground. I suspect the problem was multi-pronged: too opponent-focused, more concerned with minimisation than attack and a lack of leadership.

It was actually about as well as we have played all year.

They were just bigger,quicker,tackled better and had some luck.

It was not a terrible game by our standards.

Positives for mine were Stretch,Salem,Spencer,Hoges,The Mack,Garlett and Toumpas.

I cant be bothered bleating on about Watts,Dunn,Dawes etc but at least the youth are blossoming.

It's still a little upsetting when you see teams from the bottom like Bulldogs and GWS beat the last years grand finalists and we are still getting smashed by them.

Yeah. That's what rightfully frustrates our support base. Gives me the shits. We're a very tough club to follow.

Those two clubs in particular have brilliant young midfields though. We're a year or two off seeing the result of our midfield drafting.

Agreed. I think Spencer's first half was ordinary and Pyke got right on top of him. But in the second half he got on top of him and, I thought, beat him.

Spencer made a few errors early on in the game, which I suspect were a result of being out of the game at AFL level for so long. But he adjusted well, I thought.

I was amazed at the number of times we held the kick up in the first half. Either we are frightened of making mistakes or there are no targets or we have severe mental problems. So the person with the ball waits until time on is called then butchers the ball. Looked like under 12 c football to me.What is wrong with this teams mental state.

If you were watching the game from where I was it became very obvious that our players weren't working hard enough and thus had no one to kick to when needed. This stifles your attacking play, obviously.

Agreed. I think Spencer's first half was ordinary and Pyke got right on top of him. But in the second half he got on top of him and, I thought, beat him.

Spencer made a few errors early on in the game, which I suspect were a result of being out of the game at AFL level for so long. But he adjusted well, I thought.

I was amazed at the number of times we held the kick up in the first half. Either we are frightened of making mistakes or there are no targets or we have severe mental problems. So the person with the ball waits until time on is called then butchers the ball. Looked like under 12 c football to me.What is wrong with this teams mental state.

If you were watching the game from where I was it became very obvious that our players weren't working hard enough and thus had no one to kick to when needed. This stifles your attacking play, obviously.

Loved Billy's first two tackles. Crunchers. Plays a lot tougher than his old man.

We couldn't work out why the hell our mids didn't work out the boundary umpire was throwing in shallow throws all night. If we had, we might have won a few more clearances around the ground. I suspect the problem was multi-pronged: too opponent-focused, more concerned with minimisation than attack and a lack of leadership.

Surprisingly, we matched them, 38 clearances each. This isn't to negate your point Adam; rather, it highlights our inability to benefit from them and adds to the question of why.

Agree about Billy - his very first involvement was the first of those tackles, I think? And loved his goal-with-first-kick moment - can't recall being present for one before!

It was actually about as well as we have played all year.

They were just bigger,quicker,tackled better and had some luck.

It was not a terrible game by our standards.

Positives for mine were Stretch,Salem,Spencer,Hoges,The Mack,Garlett and Toumpas.

I cant be bothered bleating on about Watts,Dunn,Dawes etc but at least the youth are blossoming.

We did not run and spread at all. A lot of our important tackles didn't stick either. That first half was abysmal. In fact, I'd argue the first three quarters.

Jeff Garlett is doing a fine job…averaging 2 goals per game. On track to kick 40-50 for the season which will be up there with his very best at Carlton. He will have delivered on what we all hoped he would when recruited.

BTW, at his current rate Hogan will also kick 40-50 for the season.

It would be a pretty good effort by both players given the last 3 Coleman medals have been won with 60-70 goals.

Surprisingly, we matched them, 38 clearances each. This isn't to negate your point Adam; rather, it highlights our inability to benefit from them and adds to the question of why.

Agree about Billy - his very first involvement was the first of those tackles, I think? And loved his goal-with-first-kick moment - can't recall being present for one before!

Yeah, I was particularly happy with our ability to compete in the centre clearances. This is no doubt due to Sydney's midfield slowness. They don't necessarily have a lot of guys that can burst out of the middle. However, it was our lack of spread from the contests around the ground that killed us.

Yep, I recall his first involvement was one of those crunchers. It was a nice kick and loved how the boys got around him.

Jeff Garlett is doing a fine job…averaging 2 goals per game. On track to kick 40-50 for the season which will be up there with his very best at Carlton. He will have delivered on what we all hoped he would when recruited.

BTW, at his current rate Hogan will also kick 40-50 for the season.

It would be a pretty good effort by both players given the last 3 Coleman medals have been won with 60-70 goals.

The exciting thing about Jeffy is that he could have had bags in just about every game he's played so far. Therefore, there's lots of scope for improvement. But he's very dangerous around goal. I'm loving having a dangerous small forward again. It's been a couple of seasons.

It was actually about as well as we have played all year.

They were just bigger,quicker,tackled better and had some luck.

It was not a terrible game by our standards.

Positives for mine were Stretch,Salem,Spencer,Hoges,The Mack,Garlett and Toumpas.

I cant be bothered bleating on about Watts,Dunn,Dawes etc but at least the youth are blossoming.

You won't get people to games when you kick 1 goal in a half of footy.

Why do you even bother? Why not just turn off the internet and wear a hair shirt and get your angst that way?

It would be better if our Senior players decided to play with intensity and passion.

Why should i accept the tripe handed to us all in the first half of last nights game

It was an indictment to the jumper and all the people working for the club and supporters

That's why i bother.

Feel free to accept crap if that makes your day.