Gawn has a tendency to be exploited by the other team as a lumbering lightpost that half backs run off of.

If Roos thinks our forward pressure can accommodate a passenger then I am all for it - he is the only heir to Jamar that I can see on the list - I would like to see how he is progressing.

Why does everyone want Pedersen? Give me Gawn! Younger, faster, taller, actually a decent ruck. He brings energy and enthusiasm to the team. Yeah his kicking can be bad and he can really struggle forward in a lot of games but we have to keep giving him chances surely. He'll free up Jamar to play forward more and Jamar is more likely to take a grab than Pedersen as well.

I don't really want either however if I was to choose one it would probably be Pedo. Pedo has actually proven he can play at AFL level and whilst Gawn has shown he can dominate VFL he still is yet to have a great AFL game. I think he still needs to work on some things at VFL level - time and time again he has come in after dominating VFL only to mope around. He doesn't use his height to his advantage in marking contests or the ruck, doesn't get enough of the footy and is a bit of a liability with ball in hands. If we want to play fast paced aggressive footy then playing Gawn as second ruck in an already tall line up is probably not the best move. I think Bail or Michie can replace Frost up forward and they can also add to the midfield.

Barry Vagg was a good player in a great team. Very similar will of the wisp style to Tunna but not with the same magic. Tunna was a match winner. Both players could drift in and out of a game. Interesting comment about toughness though. Vagg was regarded as a player who was susceptible to a bit of man on man pressure including the old knuckle. Tunna would do nothing for several quarters and still be influential when it mattered. On occasions he could be flattened but still get off the turf to kick a couple of quick goals to win the game. Watts disposal skills are far better than either Vagg or Tunna, but his reading of the game is not in the same class and as yet he does not have the same capacity to influence a game. However, like Vagg and Tunna were in the good old days, Watts could be "value added" in a successful team. As PRAHA pointed out he could be the cherry on the top in the right circumstances.

Nice of you guys to remember me! But, I was better than that! (A "vital cog", you might say! LOL)

Oh! And, my name is spelt BARRIE...!

Why does everyone want Pedersen? Give me Gawn! Younger, faster, taller, actually a decent ruck. He brings energy and enthusiasm to the team. Yeah his kicking can be bad and he can really struggle forward in a lot of games but we have to keep giving him chances surely. He'll free up Jamar to play forward more and Jamar is more likely to take a grab than Pedersen as well.

I would bring Peders in for Dawes; I don't think Gawn could hold down a key forward post and whilst I don't think Peders is a gun by any means I do think Dawes has struggled and needs a run at Casey for his and the teams benefit.

I would bring Peders in for Dawes; I don't think Gawn could hold down a key forward post and whilst I don't think Peders is a gun by any means I do think Dawes has struggled and needs a run at Casey for his and the teams benefit.

While I agree that Dawes should probably be dropped on form - I really want to give him one more chance to prove himself. If he plays anything like he did last week then I would bring in Pedo. I think Dawes has a lot more to offer but at the end of the day if he doesn't perform then we have no space for him. He is probably the player that has frustrated me oat this season because I know he has more to offer. I say give him one game on the G - he has the potential to be a game changer.

While I agree that Dawes should probably be dropped on form - I really want to give him one more chance to prove himself. If he plays anything like he did last week then I would bring in Pedo. I think Dawes has a lot more to offer but at the end of the day if he doesn't perform then we have no space for him. He is probably the player that has frustrated me oat this season because I know he has more to offer. I say give him one game on the G - he has the potential to be a game changer.

I think this will probably be what happens 'Young Dee', I hope he does come good for us this week.

with Frost out I dont think he can be replaced with a non-agile tall. So I wouldnt consider Pedo or Gawn to replace him.

A midfielder comes in for me. give us more run agaonst the tiges. Michie is the most in form midfielder but he does seem like a slow insider midfielder

With a tall fwd out, id have Watts and Vanderberg playing more fwd than wing and also Howe playing more fwd

I think this will probably be what happens 'Young Dee', I hope he does come good for us this week.

He does have to improve a lot! He always seem slow, outmanned and to fumble. I think he has a big tank maybe he needs move up and down the ground more and tire his opponent/prevent being outmanned.

Perfect summation, not only about Watts but also some of the KHs on here.

Everybody should give what Wayne Carey said on Talking Footy a listen

Carey was SPECIFICALLY talking about the dropped head in the marking contest, not about his generally intensity at the footy.

I wouldn't drop Watts this week either as he generally plays well against the Tiges and can help us win. But he needs to lift his intensity or he'll be trade bait at years end. You can't have "soft" players (as some on here have stated) in winning finals teams, they'll be targeted by the opposition and ineffectual. All the skill in the world is useless if you can't get the ball in the first place and go when it's your turn.

That was his most insipid and infuriating play of the lot. He luckily got the ball and dished off a handball, but his weak effort in that contest summed up his insipid 6+ years.

It wasn't weak at all. He realised he was up against two players and would be better placed using their momentum against them and bringing the ball to ground.

Don't believe everything you hear on Fox Footy telecasts and make up your own bloody mind.

Seriously, the ridiculous Watts bashing makes me pretty disgusted to be a melbourne supporter.

So he's not the hardest player going around, so what. He's doing his best and he is improving year on year.

Almost every time we win the inside 50s, Watts plays well. Why? Because he gets OPPORTUNITIES to play well.

It's pretty hard imposing yourself on a game as a forward when the ball's in the back pocket the whole time, which, let's be honest, it has been a lot during his time at the club.

Loved Wayne Carey backing him up in the media this week. Yes we all know he has faults, so does every other player on our list. They don't get theirs highlighted in the paper every second week though, otherwise they probably would have retired.

It wasn't weak at all. He realised he was up against two players and would be better placed using their momentum against them and bringing the ball to ground.

Don't believe everything you hear on Fox Footy telecasts and make up your own bloody mind.

Seriously, the ridiculous Watts bashing makes me pretty disgusted to be a melbourne supporter.

So he's not the hardest player going around, so what. He's doing his best and he is improving year on year.

Almost every time we win the inside 50s, Watts plays well. Why? Because he gets OPPORTUNITIES to play well.

It's pretty hard imposing yourself on a game as a forward when the ball's in the back pocket the whole time, which, let's be honest, it has been a lot during his time at the club.

Loved Wayne Carey backing him up in the media this week. Yes we all know he has faults, so does every other player on our list. They don't get theirs highlighted in the paper every second week though, otherwise they probably would have retired.

Agreed. Far too often you read comments on here that have obviously been influenced by the commentary of the game. It is not uncommon to read verbatim quotes being passed off as one's original thoughts. I felt exactly the same as you, he knew there was no chance he was going to be able to get into a position to grab the mark against two opponents who had front position, so he used his best asset, which is his brain, and made the decision to do what he did.. and it worked. 90% of the ppl bashing him would never even noticed had anti-MFC biased blockhead idiot Ricuitto not made a snide, inaccurate comment afterwards. He did the same thing when Watts dropped that mark, yes it cost as a goal, but MR then when on to directly blame Watts for the goal that came after that, despite it having absolutely nothing to do with him. That was obviously absorbed by demonland's finest too. I can't believe Watts was named in the AFL team of the week round 1, he was genuinely 2nd BOG after TMac, yet it apparently earned him precisely zero credits on this board. Most unfairly bashed player in the comp IMO

Agreed. Far too often you read comments on here that have obviously been influenced by the commentary of the game. It is not uncommon to read verbatim quotes being passed off as one's original thoughts. I felt exactly the same as you, he knew there was no chance he was going to be able to get into a position to grab the mark against two opponents who had front position, so he used his best asset, which is his brain, and made the decision to do what he did.. and it worked. 90% of the ppl bashing him would never even noticed had anti-MFC biased blockhead idiot Ricuitto not made a snide, inaccurate comment afterwards. He did the same thing when Watts dropped that mark, yes it cost as a goal, but MR then when on to directly blame Watts for the goal that came after that, despite it having absolutely nothing to do with him. That was obviously absorbed by demonland's finest too. I can't believe Watts was named in the AFL team of the week round 1, he was genuinely 2nd BOG after TMac, yet it apparently earned him precisely zero credits on this board. Most unfairly bashed player in the comp IMO

C & B, this is the second time I have agreed with you this year, one of us must be wrong.

It wasn't weak at all. He realised he was up against two players and would be better placed using their momentum against them and bringing the ball to ground.

Don't believe everything you hear on Fox Footy telecasts and make up your own bloody mind.

Seriously, the ridiculous Watts bashing makes me pretty disgusted to be a melbourne supporter.

So he's not the hardest player going around, so what. He's doing his best and he is improving year on year.

Almost every time we win the inside 50s, Watts plays well. Why? Because he gets OPPORTUNITIES to play well.

It's pretty hard imposing yourself on a game as a forward when the ball's in the back pocket the whole time, which, let's be honest, it has been a lot during his time at the club.

Loved Wayne Carey backing him up in the media this week. Yes we all know he has faults, so does every other player on our list. They don't get theirs highlighted in the paper every second week though, otherwise they probably would have retired.

Absolutely agree.

Relevantly, it seems Paul Roos and the football committee do as well.

The tedious Watts' bashing here is the thing that's soft. And mindlessly predictable.

I thought Watts ducked the first.

The second I think he was so aware of not ducking his head that he wasn't focused on the mark.

The worse was the effort at marking/hitting the pack where he turns his body.

C & B, this is the second time I have agreed with you this year, one of us must be wrong.

There is always a herd mentality on these forums, check any of them. Lose a game and player X becomes solely responsible. It works both ways as players suddenly become superstars for one piece of play. I read the threads from round one and last week just to have a look at the changes in opinions about Watts. Interesting comparisons. He is apparently now a mung bean for two bits of poor play but was going to be stellar after round one. There must be a million actions in a game. 2 bits, early in a game cannot be the reason for the loss. I am more annoyed that professional players can't kick goals from 35 out dead in, experienced players turn the ball over even by hand and some players do one thing for the day and are superstars in the making. I guess that's why I enjoy this site.

I thought Watts ducked the first.

The second I think he was so aware of not ducking his head that he wasn't focused on the mark.

The worse was the effort at marking/hitting the pack where he turns his body.

I think he made the usual mistake and was spending it before he had it. I am over it. Hope he plays well this Friday and it will all be forgotten and he will once again be a future superstar.

I think this will probably be what happens 'Young Dee', I hope he does come good for us this week.

Geez, I am guilty of only watching snippets of the replay and only noticed three of Watts goal assists this week. They more than compensated for any dropped mark or dropped head in value to our team.

Absolutely agree.

Relevantly, it seems Paul Roos and the football committee do as well.

The tedious Watts' bashing here is the thing that's soft. And mindlessly predictable.

I'm another who agrees. For context Watts had 3 tackles against the crows (all good strong tackles by the way). That's more than 8 other players including McDonald, Howe, Kent and Hogan (who had 0 tackles).

I thought Watts ducked the first.

The second I think he was so aware of not ducking his head that he wasn't focused on the mark.

The worse was the effort at marking/hitting the pack where he turns his body.

Again, ironically enough, his 'worst' effort in a contest was won by him and became a goal assist immediately after.

He is quite an accomplished constant failure...

Geez, I am guilty of only watching snippets of the replay and only noticed three of Watts goal assists this week. They more than compensated for any dropped mark or dropped head in value to our team.

...um 'CB', we were talking about Dawes, not Watts.

I think he (Dawes) is on thin ice.

Again, ironically enough, his 'worst' effort in a contest was won by him and became a goal assist immediately after.

He is quite an accomplished constant failure...

I think he is far from a failure.

I expect him to play soft, it's the player he is.

Watts value to our club is his ability to get to the right spots (most often our players couldn't get the ball there or did not see him) and influence scores.

Once people accept him for what he is, the happier they will be.

He ain't hard and never will he be.

I think he is far from a failure.

I expect him to play soft, it's the player he is.

Watts value to our club is his ability to get to the right spots (most often our players couldn't get the ball there or did not see him) and influence scores.

Once people accept him for what he is, the happier they will be.

He ain't hard and never will he be.

Amen.

Absolutely agree.

Relevantly, it seems Paul Roos and the football committee do as well.

The tedious Watts' bashing here is the thing that's soft. And mindlessly predictable.

people are just expressing their views Ron. sure there are some harsh comments that go over the top. But most are reasonable comments from reasonable people.

but to refer to "Watts bashing" is just hyperbole. Indeed your whole sentence touches on the arrogant....oh yes all the critics are idiots, I know better type attitude.

It seems to me that even the critics of Jack want him to succeed. however, there is simply a lot of frustration particularly from supporters that attend games. you only have to attend games to share the agony of supporters when they see what they see. they are not all idiots or wrong. and they are not all "haters". It is mostly an expression of frustration. they are also the same ones on their feet and cheering when Jack takes the game on and does something special. Just as tedious are folks who jump in and defend Jack through thick and thin and will not accept any critical comment. That is also "mindlessly predictable."

people are just expressing their views Ron. sure there are some harsh comments that go over the top. But most are reasonable comments from reasonable people.

but to refer to "Watts bashing" is just hyperbole.

With all due respect Hemmingay the term Watts bashing is not hyberbole. It is reality here on DL and has been since the beginning of his career.

With all due respect Hemmingay the term Watts bashing is not hyberbole. It is reality here on DL and has been since the beginning of his career.

I retract the word hyperbole your honour mr justice binman.