Dawes is a shocking kick and a clumbsy mark.

That isn't being harsh on him, he has always been an average player.

He does have some leadership qualities though, I imagine he'd be invaluable off field.

Not the worst pick given the current state of the club at the time - with culture issues, etc.

Brad Miller who i rate alot higher then Dawes

I know Dawes is already taking a thrashing in this thread, but that's just plain mean

Miller, dawes average the same amont of goals per game, miller was better on the lead, both are if kicks for goal. Miller was at his best when robbo and nita played.

I have previously posted with the same suggested. He has many if the attritubes, straight ahead, crash the pack style. Holding, wrestling of play provided there is a match up.

I think you're out of touch with the modern game if you believe that the old style defenders are still relevant. Modern key position forwards are really mobile with the odd exception (Hawkins, Boyd), hence Dawes as a defender will struggle to find a match up.

I pose this question having been to training a few times this year. It was noticeable that Dawes not only struggled with holding his marks, but with the timing of his leap. And yet I never saw him given any specialised drills to improve this aspect of his game.

The other issue I have with him in the team is that his leading patterns tend to be towards the flanks. This role could easily be played by a mobile midsized player or a small. Dawes' primary role should be to crash packs if and when the need arises, and keep out of the way of Hogan.

Try again. He has many of the attributes of a defender. His style is straight ahead, crash the pack. He is well skilled in holding and wrestling. Provided there is a good match up it might be worth a try as it would esentially be like adding a new player judging by many of the comments here re his ability as a forward.

Try again.....ok, the modern game requires players to be verstile. Fwd's that can go into the ruck, mids can go fwd or to a back flank, kpd need to be able to play on tall/medium fwd's. Dawes is ineffective in the ruck. As a fwd he's not taking marks or kicking goals. As a defender I've no doubt he could stand and wrestle with Cloke but how would he go against Buddy, Jack or Nick Riowoldt, Pav, Roughy, Petrie? As for crashing packs as a defender I have visions of him being late to the contest, unable to punch the ball away resulting in giving away free kicks. His role is a fwd, he can play as we all know, but he is out of form big time. If he has a shocker this week he should be dropped and we swing Howe fwd. As we strive to become better no one should be exempt from being dropped.

I know Dawes is already taking a thrashing in this thread, but that's just plain mean

And I think that time is starting to cloud peoples memory.

Miller and Dawes had similar traits in being hit up/leading forwards who weren't particularly good marks of the ball overhead or in any contested situation.

As much as I loved Miller's work ethic - he was more of one trick pony - he would mark the ball on a lead and handball with his back to goal to a player running past who would inevitably run into a brick wall of defenders. Did the same thing week in and week out - no awareness of what position the player he was giving it off to was in. He wasn't a clever footballer. I think Dawes is smarter but agree that he needs to take more contested marks - or get on his bike and be taking 8 hit up marks a week.

Try again. He has many of the attributes of a defender. His style is straight ahead, crash the pack. He is well skilled in holding and wrestling. Provided there is a good match up it might be worth a try as it would esentially be like adding a new player judging by many of the comments here re his ability as a forward.

He has no attri utes of a defender. Crashing packs is not what defenders do. I never once saw Scarlett or Silvagni crash into packs as defenders.

Being a defender you have to have the ability to defend first and attack second. Its why Tom Mcdonald is such a brilliant defender.

His filled kicking is also well below par also.

Honestly i think Dawes is a victim of stagnation through the midfield and of the half back line.

He isn't a string one on one contested mark and needs to be on a lead.

We didn't move the ball well last week which meant he was rarely in good position when wet kicked it to him.

He needs to help the side by running and leading and presenting repeatedly. That's the only way he gets the ball. It may be more work but standing still and calling for it won't help him.

If we move it quickly to him his value improves. Simple.

I agree though that he can work on softer hands and timing his jump.

Honestly i think Dawes is a victim of stagnation through the midfield and of the half back line.

He isn't a string one on one contested mark and needs to be on a lead.

We didn't move the ball well last week which meant he was rarely in good position when wet kicked it to him.

He needs to help the side by running and leading and presenting repeatedly. That's the only way he gets the ball. It may be more work but standing still and calling for it won't help him.

If we move it quickly to him his value improves. Simple.

I agree though that he can work on softer hands and timing his jump.

^^^^

The modern defender does more than just punch the ball. At times some KP defenders will back themselves to mark the ball and then send the ball back into attack by either kicking it, offloading to someone running by or even taking a bounce and going for a run.

Tom McDonald is doing just this now, and is becoming a really top defender in the process.

Given Dawes has had just one game with our new offensively "improved" midfield (on a very bad day) his value in this structure is yet to be fully seen.

Don't think he (we) has seen much quality delivery to him one-on-one in space to showcase his skill. Too often he's the go for long kick down line where he's on long lead into congestion with a defender on his hammer...

Given Dawes has had just one game with our new offensively "improved" midfield (on a very bad day) his value in this structure is yet to be fully seen.

Don't think he (we) has seen much quality delivery to him one-on-one in space to showcase his skill. Too often he's the go for long kick down line where he's on long lead into congestion with a defender on his hammer...

I must admit ol' Dawes has his flaws ( sorry ) but his upside more than counters this. I sometimes wonder if his marking isnt simply affected by poor delivery. We still have a mile or two to go in the art of 'good effective kicking" Hopefully the Salems and Watts ( yes thats me saying this , but hes always been a fabulous kick ) can illuminate some others as to the art of delivery.

Not that I was anything to write about but about 90% of my footy was played in the forward arc ( or where it would have been ) and I can tell you the difference between a good day and bady, all other things aside , was how that ball came in. We still ( sigh ) for the most part arent skilled at good delivery. Im not absolving Dawes but it needs to be taken into consideration.

Im certainly not about to write him off at this early stage

IMO Dawes doesn't have an 'upside' or 'improvement' in him. Consider:

- At the Pies he wasn't a regular top 22 player.

- He played 3rd forward behind Close and Brown

- His best goal kicking was 30 goals in 2010 (20 for us in 2014)

- He has no other strings to his bow.

- There has been no noticeable improvement in any aspect of his game over the last 3 years

- Yes we can blame our rubbish midfield but that wasn't the case for pies from 2008 to 2011

- We recruited him and still playing him in a role he isn't suited for (1st/2nd forward).

I for one, don't know what role he is suited for. At best he is an (expensive) 'insurance' policy while Hogan is developing.

IMO Dawes reached his peak at the pies.

This is as good as it gets!

IMO Dawes doesn't have an 'upside' or 'improvement' in him. Consider:

- At the Pies he wasn't a regular top 22 player. Would he be now ?

- He played 3rd forward behind Close and Brown... see above

- His best goal kicking was 30 goals in 2010 (20 for us in 2014) fmd i'll take that off a forward, especially if just a non-starring one

- He has no other strings to his bow. what strings do forwards need that he hasnt ? just asking

- There has been no noticeable improvement in any aspect of his game over the last 3 years Maybe, but hard to fly like an eagle amongst turkeys they say

- Yes we can blame our rubbish midfield but that wasn't the case for pies from 2008 to 2011 Pies were pretty solid affair then

- We recruited him and still playing him in a role he isn't suited for (1st/2nd forward). tend to agree hes really the 3rd tall, Is that HIS fault though ?

I for one, don't know what role he is suited for. At best he is an (expensive) 'insurance' policy while Hogan is developing.

IMO Dawes reached his peak at the pies.

This is as good as it gets!

just as a devils advocate you understand

Try again.....ok, the modern game requires players to be verstile. Fwd's that can go into the ruck, mids can go fwd or to a back flank, kpd need to be able to play on tall/medium fwd's. Dawes is ineffective in the ruck. As a fwd he's not taking marks or kicking goals. As a defender I've no doubt he could stand and wrestle with Cloke but how would he go against Buddy, Jack or Nick Riowoldt, Pav, Roughy, Petrie? As for crashing packs as a defender I have visions of him being late to the contest, unable to punch the ball away resulting in giving away free kicks. His role is a fwd, he can play as we all know, but he is out of form big time. If he has a shocker this week he should be dropped and we swing Howe fwd. As we strive to become better no one should be exempt from being dropped.

Yes fair comments, I was just interested to discuss as its particularly frustrating to have a committed key position player on the list who can and should do better regardless of his limitations. I was very upset with his attitude last week and his lack of initiative to change the momentum or halt the momentum of the game. Agree the axe should have been swung but we luve in hope for a turnaround this week.

As quote name="Al's Demons" post="1074990" timestamp="1429231287"]Try again.....ok, the modern game requires players to be verstile. Fwd's that can go into the ruck, mids can go fwd or to a back flank, kpd need to be able to play on tall/medium fwd's. Dawes is ineffective in the ruck. As a fwd he's not taking marks or kicking goals. As a defender I've no doubt he could stand and wrestle with Cloke but how would he go against Buddy, Jack or Nick Riowoldt, Pav, Roughy, Petrie? As for crashing packs as a defender I have visions of him being late to the contest, unable to punch the ball away resulting in giving away free kicks. His role is a fwd, he can play as we all know, but he is out of form big time. If he has a shocker this week he should be dropped and we swing Howe fwd. As we strive to become better no one should be exempt from being dropped.

Someone mentioned before the season started to play him out of the square with Garlett sniffing around his feed, Watts on a flank and Hogan at CHF. Couldn't hurt to try. I don't think his kicking is the issue its getting his hands on the ball, if he's not marking it he's getting beaten at ground level, not through lack of effort though.

Someone mentioned before the season started to play him out of the square with Garlett sniffing around his feed, Watts on a flank and Hogan at CHF. Couldn't hurt to try.

Its not a bad idea... he can lead out !!!

agreed, but like I said earlier, it seems like he is never, repeat never, served it on a platter.. it is always floated above him and he is getting close attention from at least one KPD. Why can't we try to use him in a traditional full-forward way, play him out of the goal square with instructions to charge on a lead at the ball carrier, have the midfielders looking for him and make sure that JKH/Gartlett/Kent is at his ankles 100% of the time to mop up the ones that don't work, anything but what seems to be the current strategy of having him be spoiled and fall to ground 70 metres from goal, it's just not working

Someone mentioned before the season started to play him out of the square with Garlett sniffing around his feed, Watts on a flank and Hogan at CHF. Couldn't hurt to try. I don't think his kicking is the issue its getting his hands on the ball, if he's not marking it he's getting beaten at ground level, not through lack of effort though.

Dawes time @filth was dangerous around goals. Dawes in square ( as a home ) Hulk as a wandering CHF.. Watts linking winger/high hff...and someone else as 3rd fwd( taller) leaves Jeffy Kent and someone in the arc...has some promise Id have thought...Just needs some thoughtful delivery in arc. ( I know...)

I use to enjoy watching Collingwood when Dawes played. One stuff up after another.

I couldn't believe it when Melbourne recruited him.

I use to enjoy watching Collingwood when Dawes played. One stuff up after another.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b5W7NH59W1c#t=63

Say what you want about Dawes, but you can't deny he is fabulous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b5W7NH59W1c#t=63

exhibit A: ONE dropped mark from Chris Dawes' entire Collingwood career /end thread

Miller, dawes average the same amont of goals per game, miller was better on the lead, both are if kicks for goal. Miller was at his best when robbo and nita played.

That is true, I think Dawes at his best is better than what Miller produced at his best but we never got Dawes to be a no 1 tall forward. He was meant to be 2nd behind Clark and eventually third behind Hoges, his role at the club has had to change a number of times as has happened with several others. At this stage we need him and Hoges to have equal output, we need them both to lead hard, clunk marks and be options that mids can rely on to be a get out kick.

exhibit A: ONE dropped mark from Chris Dawes' entire Collingwood career /end thread

Or the only dropped Dawes mark thats on Youtube?