Jump to content


Recommended Posts

Posted

Sorry that is rubbish, but just in case you weren't making a weak joke..... Would you apply that reasoning to comparing murder with shoplifting?

BB is quite correct, drug taking is of course far far more serious than tanking.

The point of it is that even though I might think the EFC players have taken banned drugs it has not been proven. If they haven't then they are guilty of the poor administration of a supplement regime as we were guilty of the poor administration of list management.

...and yes I do think using performance enhancing drugs is bad for sport, I would put it on a par with match fixing and there is a fine line between that & tanking (not list management) given the amount of money being gambled on the game these days and the potential for criminal involvement.

Further to that though, I do think the biggest issue for me is the EFC cannot (or will not) say what the players have taken.

Posted

you're not saying anything new,

Sorry. I'll try harder next time to post something truly unique and new.

I'm guessing there would be considerably less posts in most threads if the rule was you had to say something new with each post.

  • Like 2

Posted

The latest piece of trash from Chip. Trying to make a buck or two. Wonder what WADA will think about him publishing a book about the whole affair if they appeal?

http://www.randomhouse.com.au/books/chip-le-grand/the-straight-dope-9780522868500.aspx

I wonder if it is referenced, if it was it would make interesting reading. If it is not then it is just another waste of time, like the rest of his writing!

Posted

How about you actually read the blogs, they are very balanced and not biased at all either way, they simply state what has happened and what will happen. They are also qualified practicing lawyers so they would know a thing or two about it. The example given about whether it was TB4 paints picture perfectly, surely if you have tests that say it probably is, and three people all saying it is, and these people are the manufacturer and the people who ordered it, then you could be satisfied that it was TB4.

They also pointed out that Jones was a criminal judge used to working with beyond reasonable doubt so may have leaned unknowingly to what he was comfortable with. they raised the questions of whether this would be the same with a civil judge, or people experienced with dealing with comfortable satisfaction in the CAS setting.

I am sure you wont accept any of this as you appear to one of the many EFC fans who still have your head buried and only heard not guilty and haven't delved any deeper. Can I suggest you do.

This thread is as good as some of the nonsense posted on bf's htb thread - An independent tribunal of highly qualified professionals found ASADA's case hopelessly constructed & didnt come close to proving their burden (& lets not forget the issue of 'manufactured evidence', I mean seriously what did these clowns at ASADA think they were doing??), but it is Essendon people that are being accused of having their heads in the sand?? That's laughable as I suspect deep down most of you here full well know.

Anyhoo, have fun hanging on for WADA to appeal & those blood tests to suddenly all come back positive (all 2 of them). Really life's too short.

Posted

That's sad because the "court of public opinion" said we tanked.

Be careful what you wish for.

Not just the court of public opinion. Of course we tanked - don't think that part of it was ever a point of contention. The contentious part was why we were being penalised and no-one else was.

  • Like 4

Posted

And who says Essendon are on their own?

On a team-wide scale, they're on their own. As much as anything else, because they were the only ones who gave the good Mr. Dank free rein.

Posted

The latest piece of trash from Chip. Trying to make a buck or two. Wonder what WADA will think about him publishing a book about the whole affair if they appeal?

http://www.randomhouse.com.au/books/chip-le-grand/the-straight-dope-9780522868500.aspx

I wonder if it is referenced, if it was it would make interesting reading. If it is not then it is just another waste of time, like the rest of his writing!

LOL

Chip Le Grand, one of the biggest Essendon/Hird fanboys in the media

Will be lucky to sell 20 copies

Posted

On a team-wide scale, they're on their own. As much as anything else, because they were the only ones who gave the good Mr. Dank free rein...

...that we know of.

I've never been convinced that the EFC is an isolated case. Just the one that's been looked at. (Bit like the tanking issue in Bing's post #1130)


Posted

This thread is as good as some of the nonsense posted on bf's htb thread - An independent tribunal of highly qualified professionals found ASADA's case hopelessly constructed & didnt come close to proving their burden (& lets not forget the issue of 'manufactured evidence', I mean seriously what did these clowns at ASADA think they were doing??), but it is Essendon people that are being accused of having their heads in the sand?? That's laughable as I suspect deep down most of you here full well know.

Anyhoo, have fun hanging on for WADA to appeal & those blood tests to suddenly all come back positive (all 2 of them). Really life's too short.

all very interesting sp

but.....tell us what you really think.

do you think the took wada banned substances and got away with it (so far)?

Posted

.... This is just opinion & almost certainly opinion from those who were displeased with the tribunals findings.

Which is just an opinion. Yours. As such, it's not "certainly" anything.

  • Like 1

Posted

The point of it is that even though I might think the EFC players have taken banned drugs it has not been proven.

Short of a positive test or a confession, it will for ever remain so. The best we could hope for is "comfortable satisfaction".

Posted

The point of it is that even though I might think the EFC players have taken banned drugs it has not been proven. If they haven't then they are guilty of the poor administration of a supplement regime as we were guilty of the poor administration of list management.

...and yes I do think using performance enhancing drugs is bad for sport, I would put it on a par with match fixing and there is a fine line between that & tanking (not list management) given the amount of money being gambled on the game these days and the potential for criminal involvement.

Further to that though, I do think the biggest issue for me is the EFC cannot (or will not) say what the players have taken.

Drug cheating is far worse than tanking of the MFC type (as you seem to acknowledge), but it is also worse than match fixing for profit or whatever. If I throw a match at the request of my coach, I might have a bad conscience for the rest of my life. If I get injected with a substance which may have long term health issues, I may not have much of a rest of a life. And as you say, the fact that EFC admin won't/can't say what was injected is terrible - those people should be thrown out of the game if not into the clink.

Posted

An independent tribunal of highly qualified professionals found ASADA's case hopelessly constructed

Must have missed that bit. Where in the Tribunal's ruling does it find ASADA's case "hopelessly constructed"? All the tribunal found was that they couldn't be sure that the plant that makes TB4 actually made TB4.

BTW, who the hell are you???

  • Like 4
Posted

I find it a little bit amusing for a club that was so determined for the " truth to come out " they haven't been in a hurry to release it.

for me it should be as simple as no records = guilty.

  • Like 6
Posted

....and Essendon. Guilty. Shut the gate . Turn out the light...

Posted

There are many mistakes in your take but none greater than this nonsense - there is not a 'lesser standard of proof required by CAS', the burden of proof is identical to that applied by the AFL Tribunal & we all know how spectacularly ASADA failed in even getting close to proving it's case(lol).

As for Fahey, he can whinge & cry as much as he likes but he is no longer relevant in any way to this or any other case & to suggest he has any influence on how WADA will decide on any appeal, is simply misleading anyone silly enough to put any credence in your posts.

Well well well. What a surprise. A Hird apologist defaulting to Hird tactics, personified by personal abuse rather than reasoned argument. Why am I not surprised?

  • Like 6
Posted

Not just the court of public opinion. Of course we tanked - don't think that part of it was ever a point of contention. The contentious part was why we were being penalised and no-one else was.

Youd think some would get that.... i mean its not hard ! :rolleyes:
Posted

Youd think some would get that.... i mean its not hard ! :rolleyes:

interesting there too, bub, that comfortable satisfaction or beyond reasonable doubt didn't come into

it was just a negotiated settlement and not technically on tanking per se

  • Like 1

Posted

Drug cheating is far worse than tanking of the MFC type (as you seem to acknowledge), but it is also worse than match fixing for profit or whatever. If I throw a match at the request of my coach, I might have a bad conscience for the rest of my life. If I get injected with a substance which may have long term health issues, I may not have much of a rest of a life. And as you say, the fact that EFC admin won't/can't say what was injected is terrible - those people should be thrown out of the game if not into the clink.

What's the difference between tanking and match fixing? Both involve an artificial outcome of a match for profit/benefit. Both are cheating. They are the same. A club tanking/ match fixing where it's institutionalised within a club would be worse than an individual(s) that drug cheat.

Posted

Must have missed that bit. Where in the Tribunal's ruling does it find ASADA's case "hopelessly constructed"? All the tribunal found was that they couldn't be sure that the plant that makes TB4 actually made TB4.

BTW, who the hell are you???

I would venture to suggest a plant from the Hird PR machine. It is a standard tactic when arguments are gaining traction against your cause you try to disrupt through such tactics as misinformation and personal abuse. It is a great way of distracting from the substance of rational argument, the last thing that Hird wants considered.

The best way to deal with it is to ignore it!

  • Like 1

Posted

No there not. Match fixing involves a ruse, a subterfuge. Match fixing invariably involves a team or player ev acting contrary to the expected. List management only really furthers the established trend.Tanking /list management is pretty open really, it's quite upfront, there's no real pretence, hence the how of practically all understanding what's going on.

Posted (edited)

What's the difference between tanking and match fixing? Both involve an artificial outcome of a match for profit/benefit. Both are cheating. They are the same. A club tanking/ match fixing where it's institutionalised within a club would be worse than an individual(s) that drug cheat.

I am surprised that you do not recognise that some forms of cheating are worse than others. For a start, tampering with players' bodies is worse in my mind than playing with their or some bookie's bank balances.

There are a range of cheats you can do which don't involve breaking any laws. Then there is cheating which may involve some law breaking - eg. by flattening the tyres on the opposition's bus so they arrive late through to mugging their star players the night before the match. All are worse than cheating by pretending you touched a ball going through their goals when you didn't.

I'll leave aside individual drug cheating versus tanking because the discussion is about institutional drug cheating.

Edited by sue
  • Like 1
Posted

I would venture to suggest a plant from the Hird PR machine. It is a standard tactic when arguments are gaining traction against your cause you try to disrupt through such tactics as misinformation and personal abuse. It is a great way of distracting from the substance of rational argument, the last thing that Hird wants considered.

The best way to deal with it is to ignore it!

Agree, an essenscum supporter, trying the same bulshit with us, that they believe worked with the media.

Pull your head in mate, we are not falling for your hirdspeak.

Smack these drug cheats hard WADA, and remove them from the comp for 2 years. Their lies need to be exposed.

  • Like 1
Posted

So the Hird-troll has passed off ?

Posted

The best way to deal with it is to ignore it!

Yes, I know, but it's odd to find one of these little critters within the confines of a forum such as this.

I don't know, should Demonland only be open to Demon supporters? After all, there are plenty of other forums on the net where trolls opposition supporters can contribute their 2c.

  • Like 1

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    2024 Player Reviews: #15 Ed Langdon

    The Demon running machine came back with a vengeance after a leaner than usual year in 2023.  Date of Birth: 1 February 1996 Height: 182cm Games MFC 2024: 22 Career Total: 179 Goals MFC 2024: 9 Career Total: 76 Brownlow Medal Votes: 5 Melbourne Football Club: 5th Best & Fairest: 352 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 6

    2024 Player Reviews: #24 Trent Rivers

    The premiership defender had his best year yet as he was given the opportunity to move into the midfield and made a good fist of it. Date of Birth: 30 July 2001 Games MFC 2024: 23 Career Total: 100 Goals MFC 2024: 2 Career Total:  9 Brownlow Medal Votes: 7 Melbourne Football Club: 6th Best & Fairest: 350 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 2

    TRAINING: Monday 11th November 2024

    Veteran Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin, Slartibartfast & Demon Wheels were on hand at Gosch's Paddock to kick off the official first training session for the 1st to 4th year players with a few elder statesmen in attendance as well. KEV MARTIN'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Beautiful morning. Joy all round, they look like they want to be there.  21 in the squad. Looks like the leadership group is TMac, Viney Chandler and Petty. They look like they have sli

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports 2

    2024 Player Reviews: #1 Steven May

    The years are rolling by but May continued to be rock solid in a key defensive position despite some injury concerns. He showed great resilience in coming back from a nasty rib injury and is expected to continue in that role for another couple of seasons. Date of Birth: 10 January 1992 Height: 193cm Games MFC 2024: 19 Career Total: 235 Goals MFC 2024: 1 Career Total: 24 Melbourne Football Club: 9th Best & Fairest: 316 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons

    2024 Player Reviews: #4 Judd McVee

    It was another strong season from McVee who spent most of his time mainly at half back but he also looked at home on a few occasions when he was moved into the midfield. There could be more of that in 2025. Date of Birth: 7 August 2003 Height: 185cm Games MFC 2024: 23 Career Total: 48 Goals MFC 2024: 1 Career Total: 1 Brownlow Medal Votes: 1 Melbourne Football Club: 7th Best & Fairest: 347 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    2024 Player Reviews: #31 Bayley Fritsch

    Once again the club’s top goal scorer but he had a few uncharacteristic flat spots during the season and the club will be looking for much better from him in 2025. Date of Birth: 6 December 1996 Height: 188cm Games MFC 2024: 23 Career Total: 149 Goals MFC 2024: 41 Career Total: 252 Brownlow Medal Votes: 4

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 9

    2024 Player Reviews: #18 Jake Melksham

    After sustaining a torn ACL in the final match of the 2023 season Jake added a bit to the attack late in the 2024 season upon his return. He has re-signed on to the Demons for 1 more season in 2025. Date of Birth: 12 August 1991 Height: 186cm Games MFC 2024: 8 Career Total: 229 Goals MFC 2024: 8 Career Total: 188

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 7

    2024 Player Reviews: #3 Christian Salem

    The luckless Salem suffered a hamstring injury against the Lions early in the season and, after missing a number of games, he was never at his best. He was also inconvenienced by minor niggles later in the season. This was a blow for the club that sorely needed him to fill gaps in the midfield at times as well as to do his best work in defence. Date of Birth: 15 July 1995 Height: 184cm Games MFC 2024: 17 Career Total: 176 Goals MFC 2024: 1 Career Total: 26 Brownlow Meda

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 8

    2024 Player Reviews: #39 Koltyn Tholstrop

    The first round draft pick at #13 from twelve months ago the strongly built medium forward has had an impressive introduction to AFL football and is expected to spend more midfield moments as his career progresses. Date of Birth: 25 July 2005 Height: 186cm Games MFC 2024: 10 Career Total: 10 Goals MFC 2024: 5 Career Total: 5 Games CDFC 2024: 7 Goals CDFC 2024: 4

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 9
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...