If he does end up elsewhere, it will re-enforce a point I have been making for half a decade - ruckmen take so long to come on that drafting them before their early twenties is a wasted pick.

We have poured in at least 5 years of (sub-standard) development into Gawn, Fitzpatrick, and Spencer for little return.

And we are still talking about trading for a mature ruck to take over from Jamar - something we were talking about 5 years ago: http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/23209-backing-jamar-thread-bumped-poll-disabled/?hl

Gawn has had issues with his knees, had a 12 week hamstring injury as well. If he can stay uninjured i think he could become a very good AFL player, i have no doubt another club would sign him if we didn't. Ceglar has hit his straps and he is 24, Gawn is 23. We must sign up Max, too much upside to let go.

I'm pleased for Trengove that he's been given another year. I hope he makes it back, as he seems to be highly regarded around the clud for the qualities he displays as a person and leader.

Inexplicable that Matt Jones and Terlich would be signed to anything more than a 1 year deal. These are fringe players at a club that couldn't beat an egg. Why the need to commit to more than 1 year at a time? An opposition club going to throw the kitchen sink at them? This is as poor a list management as Jamar and McKenzie receiving 3 year deals.

There are blokes like Aaron vandenBerg running around out there and we put years into dime a dozen park footballers like Bail, M Jones and Terlich.

I assume Terlich being on contract until the end of 2016 is a typo or a joke, right?

I assume Terlich being on contract until the end of 2016 is a typo or a joke, right?

No

I assume Terlich being on contract until the end of 2016 is a typo or a joke, right?

Unless there is an asterisk - I can find proof through a simple net search.

Unless there is an asterisk - I can find proof through a simple net search.

Are you sure Frost only got 2 years, i heard it was 3

Edited June 1, 201510 yr by DavidNeitz9

Hunts played 1 game in over 12 months. Give the kid a chance. Add him to the wait and see but Id much rather give him another year than Riley.

You can't keep everyone. I think a kid who was speculative in the first place not getting on the park on two years will be told "time". If he shows something in the back half of the year at Casey he may be given more time, but at this point I assume he's gone. You have to show *something* in the time you're at the club if you expect to stay.

It's not a criticism of him and it is unfair, but that's how it is. He won't be the first player to be moved on before he's had a real chance to show what he's got, and he won't be the last.

Updated.

At this stage:

I would re-sign Garland, Toumpas, Pedersen, Gawn, and upgrade Vanders.

I would not re-sign Jamar, McKenzie, Hunt, Bail, and Fitzpatrick. I would trade Howe. That would open up 5 spots on the primary list.

I would give King a third year on the rookie list, and White a second.

Riley, Cross, and Harmes are wait-and-see prospects for the last half of the season. If all three were moved on that would be 7 spots on the PL and 2 on the RL.

Yes, it's almost that time of year again where we review our list and dream about making big trades, even though we can't give up much for them, and then when we realise that the other clubs don't rate most of our players as valuable commodities, we hope that we can get incredibly lucky in the draft.

The good news at least is that we now have Jason Taylor and with Roos guiding him, they seem incredibly aware of what sort of players have a better chance of making it.

Based on your list above, I think both Fitzy and Hunt are in the wait and see bracket. Fitzy is learning a new craft - tall defender and whilst I suspect his lack of core strength and lack of tackling ability as a backman will eventually mean you have rightfully placed him, it's a little unfair to judge him on four VFL games and two AFL games as a defender.

Hunt also needs to be given all year before assessing - he has line-breaking pace, but whether he can win enough ball to warrant his retention, that is the issue. Let's see how he goes once he is back in VFL side (not development team).

Cross is still incredibly valuable and has a good presence at training - it would be criminal to force him out sooner than necessary like Junior Mc.

Toumpas needs to be assessed as well - the good thing is that he's playing AFL and we are all watching and ... at times cringeing.

Pedo needs to be on a one-year deal, given his age.

Riley is unlikely, as his disposal doesn't quite cut it, but he's so hard at it that he deserves a decent go in the back half of the season.

Every year someone here says you can't break contracts and every year it happens and on most occasions is necessary - imagine if Evans and Barry hadn't gone!

The three most likely and like the others, still in the process of review, are Terlich, Michie and Matt Jones.

I'm also actually tipping that Wattsy retires and goes off and enjoys life, without the pressures and expectations.

If Dawesy's calf keeps playing up, it may also be a case of early retirement for him as well.

2019Jones 27,

2018

Brayshaw 19, Petracca 19,

2017Dunn 27, Hogan 20, Viney 20, Lumumba 28, Kennedy-Harris20, Salem 19,

2016Trengove 22, Dawes 26, Grimes 25 (RFA), Watts 24 (RFA), Michie* 23, Vince 29, Tyson* 21, Kent 21, M Jones 27, Spencer 25 (UFA), T McDonald 22, Terlich 25, Jetta 25, Garlett 25, Stretch 18, Frost 21, Newton 22, Neal-Bullen 19, O McDonald 19

2015

Jamar 31 (UFA), Garland 26 (RFA), McKenzie 24, Howe 24, Gawn 23, Fitzpatrick 23, Toumpas 21, Pedersen 28, Hunt 19, Cross 32, Bail 26, Riley 23, Harmes ® 19, King ® 19, Vandenberg ® 23, White ® 18

* = Require confirmation...

Those underlined are player I think are the top 11 paid players; RFA is determined by players being among these 11 (obviously this will be wrong but hopefully indicative).

Ages are from the 1st April 2015 - an arbitrary date fit for a fool...

The end of next year hopefully marks the end of the dead wood.

Any chance Nasher/WJ of pinning this thread? As we enter the back half of the season I think this will be in high demand.

Cheers.

Edited June 18, 201510 yr by Al's Demons

2015
Jamar 31 (UFA), Garland 26 (RFA), McKenzie 24, Howe 24, Gawn 23, Fitzpatrick 23, Toumpas 21, Pedersen 28, Hunt 19, Cross 32, Bail 26, Riley 23, Harmes ® 19, King ® 19, Vandenberg ® 23, White ® 18

Of this group, i think we will lose Col Garland via free agency, lose Jeremy Howe via trade, Mark Jamar will retire, and Jordie Mckenzie, James Harmes, Ro Bail and Jayden Hunt will be delisted

Daniel Cross to sign on for one more

Gawn, Toumpas, Vandenberg, Pederson two year extensions

Fitzy and Riley 1 more year

King and White retained as Rookies

2015

Jamar 31 (UFA), Garland 26 (RFA), McKenzie 24, Howe 24, Gawn 23, Fitzpatrick 23, Toumpas 21, Pedersen 28, Hunt 19, Cross 32, Bail 26, Riley 23, Harmes ® 19, King ® 19, Vandenberg ® 23, White ® 18

Of this group, i think we will lose Col Garland via free agency, lose Jeremy Howe via trade, Mark Jamar will retire, and Jordie Mckenzie, James Harmes, Ro Bail and Jayden Hunt will be delisted

Daniel Cross to sign on for one more

Gawn, Toumpas, Vandenberg, Pederson two year extensions

Fitzy and Riley 1 more year

King and White retained as Rookies

need to see more of this kid before that happens. Know nothing. Seen nothing.

2015

Jamar 31 (UFA), Garland 26 (RFA), McKenzie 24, Howe 24, Gawn 23, Fitzpatrick 23, Toumpas 21, Pedersen 28, Hunt 19, Cross 32, Bail 26, Riley 23, Harmes ® 19, King ® 19, Vandenberg ® 23, White ® 18

Of this group, i think we will lose Col Garland via free agency, lose Jeremy Howe via trade, Mark Jamar will retire, and Jordie Mckenzie, James Harmes, Ro Bail and Jayden Hunt will be delisted

Daniel Cross to sign on for one more

Gawn, Toumpas, Vandenberg, Pederson two year extensions

Fitzy and Riley 1 more year

King and White retained as Rookies

Hope we keep Col on a 3 year deal.

Agree with Howe.

Agree with Jamar, McKenzie & Bail.

Expect Harmes to be upgraded with Vandenberg for 2 year deals.

Hunt given his injuries I suspect they may give him a one year deal along with Riley, Pedersen & Cross.

Agree with Gawn & Toumpas re 2 year deals

Agree re King & White

Expect Fitz to be traded.

The must re- signs for next year are Garland Howe Gawn Toumpas Pedersen Cross VanDen Berg and if necessary Salem and JKH.

Plus 42,000 Diehard supporters.

If you haven't played a game in two years and are on the RL - you are in trouble.

Re-Sign (or upgrade): Garland 26 (RFA), Gawn 23, Toumpas 21, Cross 32, Pedersen 28, Vandenberg ® 23, Riley 23,

Re-Sign as Rookie: King ® 19, White ® 18

Trade: Howe 24,

Delist: Jamar 31 (UFA), McKenzie 24, Hunt 19, Bail 26, Harmes ® 19, Fitzpatrick 23,

This will leave 6 PL spots and 2 RL spots. Our picks would be ND5, ND15 (Howe), ND25, ND47, ND68, and N90

Would love to get some experienced talent through FA instead of using ND68 and ND90.

You can try paying out Matt Jones and/or Terlich if you want to - or promising them a spot on the RL...

Would anyone else be tempted to offer Cross another year? even if he plays half the games and some at casey he sets a great example and is a fantasic leader

Keep Cross in any capacity, player or non playing. We know what he represents and his presence in any capacity has to be good. Ex Bullies champion was absolutely livid when they gave up Cross. He told me that he was not only a top class guy, very popular with all, the example he set for the younger guys was invaluable.

If you haven't played a game in two years and are on the RL - you are in trouble.

Re-Sign (or upgrade): Garland 26 (RFA), Gawn 23, Toumpas 21, Cross 32, Pedersen 28, Vandenberg ® 23, Riley 23,

Re-Sign as Rookie: King ® 19, White ® 18

Trade: Howe 24,

Delist: Jamar 31 (UFA), McKenzie 24, Hunt 19, Bail 26, Harmes ® 19, Fitzpatrick 23,

This will leave 6 PL spots and 2 RL spots. Our picks would be ND5, ND15 (Howe), ND25, ND47, ND68, and N90

Would love to get some experienced talent through FA instead of using ND68 and ND90.

You can try paying out Matt Jones and/or Terlich if you want to - or promising them a spot on the RL...

Not bad, although it's a very shallow draft.

You may be better off promoting someone like Harmes on a 1 year deal (like Clisby) then taking a speculative pick at 68 on an unknown kid who you may have to keep on the list for the extra year.

Reckon Harmes is progressing nicely down at Casey.

If you haven't played a game in two years and are on the RL - you are in trouble.

Re-Sign (or upgrade): Garland 26 (RFA), Gawn 23, Toumpas 21, Cross 32, Pedersen 28, Vandenberg ® 23, Riley 23,

Re-Sign as Rookie: King ® 19, White ® 18

Trade: Howe 24,

Delist: Jamar 31 (UFA), McKenzie 24, Hunt 19, Bail 26, Harmes ® 19, Fitzpatrick 23,

This will leave 6 PL spots and 2 RL spots. Our picks would be ND5, ND15 (Howe), ND25, ND47, ND68, and N90

Would love to get some experienced talent through FA instead of using ND68 and ND90.

You can try paying out Matt Jones and/or Terlich if you want to - or promising them a spot on the RL...

Not bad, although it's a very shallow draft.

You may be better off promoting someone like Harmes on a 1 year deal (like Clisby) then taking a speculative pick at 68 on an unknown kid who you may have to keep on the list for the extra year.

Reckon Harmes is progressing nicely down at Casey.

I'd much rather they promote Harmes with a late pick. I also feel a little bit sorry for Hunt who has just had no luck. He's really young, rapid, great kick and apparently showed a lot at school level. I'd be tempted to delist him and re-rookie, see if he can develop.

Harmes has been knocking on the door in the VFL. He's been a steady improver in his two years and is now approaching the upper echelons of class in the second tier comp. I understand the logic behind "no games in 2 years = gone", but the flipside is that this FD are big fans of letting kids develop at their own pace, and Harmes seems to be doing just that. I wouldn't be adverse to keeping him, even if it means a promotion to the senior list.

Hunt is a different case - though it may be through no fault of his own - no progress in two years means he'll be the first to be told "sorry, thanks for trying". It's a tough game.

King is a lock for third rookie year. Much as we have with Fitzpatrick and Spencer, you would persevere for as long as practically possible.

I'd be putting an offer on the table to Cross right now. 1 year with game triggered option for a second, on decent money. He's still a core midfield player and should be treated as such, and is showing no signs at all of wearing out.

Garland to stay if it were up to me and Fitzy to go. McKenzie, Bail et al require no further comment at this stage.

Harmes has been knocking on the door in the VFL. He's been a steady improver in his two years and is now approaching the upper echelons of class in the second tier comp. I understand the logic behind "no games in 2 years = gone", but the flipside is that this FD are big fans of letting kids develop at their own pace, and Harmes seems to be doing just that. I wouldn't be adverse to keeping him, even if it means a promotion to the senior list.

Hunt is a different case - though it may be through no fault of his own - no progress in two years means he'll be the first to be told "sorry, thanks for trying". It's a tough game.

King is a lock for third rookie year. Much as we have with Fitzpatrick and Spencer, you would persevere for as long as practically possible.

I'd be putting an offer on the table to Cross right now. 1 year with game triggered option for a second, on decent money. He's still a core midfield player and should be treated as such, and is showing no signs at all of wearing out.

Garland to stay if it were up to me and Fitzy to go. McKenzie, Bail et al require no further comment at this stage.

Playing assistant coach for 2016 i reckon, he can play as long as he can hold his spot in the best 22, one would assume that when their time comes our young mids would overtake him

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-26/demons-confident-of-resigning-garland-as-interest-from-rivals-grows

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-26/demons-confident-of-resigning-garland-as-interest-from-rivals-grows

Smoke and mirrors this. If it is true that Garland hasn't been offered a contract, we're playing things out like we did with Rivers, Frawley, Moloney and Sylvia. Basically saying to him, 'go and get a good offer to compensate us and you can play in a finals team'.

Edited June 27, 201510 yr by AdamFarr

Smoke and mirrors this. If it is true that Garland hasn't been offered a contract we're playing things out like we did with Rivers, Frawley, Moloney and Sylvia. Basically saying to him go and get a good offer to compensate us and you can play in a finals team.

I'd still like him to stay.

We need to sign Garland & Gawn

Smoke and mirrors this. If it is true that Garland hasn't been offered a contract we're playing things out like we did with Rivers, Frawley, Moloney and Sylvia. Basically saying to him go and get a good offer to compensate us and you can play in a finals team.

I like Garland but he's very much a "meat and potatoes" player. We'd get a second round pick as compensation and I'd have a lot of faith in Roos trading that for a decent replacement elsewhere.

Still, I'd rather Garland stayed. If we have a decent second half of the season then he will. He'd be crazy to sign somewhere else when we have such an exciting and stable future (potentially). Pretty much no side outside of Hawthorn and Sydney are guaranteed to play finals in a given year!

Edited June 27, 201510 yr by Sylvia Saint