AFL involved in Port Adelaide/Essendon Draft Rort

[Whispering_Jack 29,805]

This is a MELBOURNE supporters forum though.

We made a decision a long time ago that anyone could become a member of this site as long as they were prepared to abide by our code of conduct and rules. Ash has always been respectful of the club and the site. Please show him the same respect.

[rpfc 28,263]

Yeah fair enough then, I don't agree with him coming on here and doing it, but seems the majority disagree with me.

But lucky this wasn't a Collingwood supporters forum, they would have murdered him.

I think the majority on here would agree with you.

The reasonable few who have history on the site mitigated that noise.

Ash was around when we were good (well, better) - he isn't a troll. And internet murdering hasn't been invented yet...

[InVINCEable 358]

I think the majority on here would agree with you.

The reasonable few who have history on the site mitigated that noise.

Ash was around when we were good (well, better) - he isn't a troll. And internet murdering hasn't been invented yet...

No I meant real life murder.

[InVINCEable 358]

We made a decision a long time ago that anyone could become a member of this site as long as they were prepared to abide by our code of conduct and rules. Ash has always been respectful of the club and the site. Please show him the same respect.

Yep, noted.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

Ash has been posting here for years and is as good and as articulate a poster as anyone.

This makes for very interesting discussion in my opinion, no matter which side you're on.

[Yarra Valley Demon 127]

This is a MELBOURNE supporters forum though.

It's elitist, exclusionist comments like those that give Melbourne supporters a such a poor reputation. No wonder people think we just fly to the ski fields every winter and think our [censored] doesn't stink.

If someone wants to come into a public forum and have a civilised and respectful conversation with us then I say welcome.

[Ash35 425]

I never wanted to hijack the thread.

It just sort of happened that way.

I know my place.

I don't disrespect the MFC.

I try to give an oppositions point of view while maintaining the fact this is a Melbourne FC website.

I'm more than happy to stop talking about the Essendon scandal.

There are no winners.

I "came back" here because of last weeks tragic passing of Robert Flower.

I'm not a troll and I'm not here to put peoples noses out of joint.

Thanks for the support guys.

BTW, todays Garlett trade was a steal IMHO.

[ickey_11 145]

I never wanted to hijack the thread.

It just sort of happened that way.

I know my place.

I don't disrespect the MFC.

I try to give an oppositions point of view while maintaining the fact this is a Melbourne FC website.

I'm more than happy to stop talking about the Essendon scandal.

There are no winners.

I "came back" here because of last weeks tragic passing of Robert Flower.

I'm not a troll and I'm not here to put peoples noses out of joint.

Thanks for the support guys.

BTW, todays Garlett trade was a steal IMHO.

I always welcome your input Ash.... Your insights are completely different and I value the other perspective.

I must admit that I am enjoying seeing Essendon suffer; and I think they will continue to until they show Hird and Thompson the door. They really need to draw a line and move on.

Edited October 9, 2014 by ickey_11

[Red and Bluebeard 2,083]

no need for that jnr

any fan of robbie is welcome here

Amen to that. Ash is always welcome here as I see it.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

I never wanted to hijack the thread.

It just sort of happened that way.

I know my place.

I don't disrespect the MFC.

I try to give an oppositions point of view while maintaining the fact this is a Melbourne FC website.

I'm more than happy to stop talking about the Essendon scandal.

There are no winners.

I "came back" here because of last weeks tragic passing of Robert Flower.

I'm not a troll and I'm not here to put peoples noses out of joint.

Thanks for the support guys.

BTW, todays Garlett trade was a steal IMHO.

You should come by more often.

Not only do we need a boost in IQ around here, it's a nice place to come for a laugh when you think your club is in the $hit... We are only 1 bad loss away from imploding and making you realise how much worse you could have it!

[Nasher 33,607]

Mate with all due respect, rack off, your team cheated and they deserve to pay the fine! And also if you're not a Demons supporter, why the hell are you here? We don't go on your sites and defend Melbourne. This is a Melbourne only zone "Demonland".

Look you've already had the point beaten in to you, but crud post. You've been here for a year - Ash has been here for 10 (since pre IPB forum days) and has the respect of the admin and the old posters around here. A bit of debate coming from outside the bubble from time to time does us good and makes things interesting.

[dees189227 12,373]

Excuse me this may sound dumb but I thought ryder could use the clause in his contract about wellness and care or something like that to get out of there. anyway apparently he has done an interview that will be in the herald sun tomorrow according to ralphy. I guess he will spill his guts and maybe essendon will get the picture he doesnt want to be there.

Big day of news gets bigger tomorrow as Paddy Ryder sits down with @gullanHeraldSun to discuss his 20-month torment.

[monoccular 17,413]

Fifty-5 this has little to if anything to with the MFC.This is all about the integrity and transparency of the competition, or in this case a lack of. It amazes me that the AFL can't see the slippery slope that they are perched on.

It is always difficult to see a slippery slope ahead of you when your head is up a very dark orifice !

[Undeeterred 3,123]

beelzebub...you do understand my club didn't play finals in 2013 even though we qualified,

and was fined $2 mil,

and were stripped of draft picks that has been well and truly covered in this thread.

I think you're completely missing the point.

Now that the Essendon punishment has been meted out by the AFL, why should they turn around and engineer special treatment for your club?

Play within the trade rules. Do a deal and make everyone happy, make Ryder stay and be miserable, or release him. That's how everyone else has to behave - why shouldn't you?

Your posts seem to suggest that Essendon should get special treatment to help you out of the mess you created yourselves. No other team in the AFL bought that argument when we submitted for a priority pick, and we sure as hell fit those criteria for assistance better than Essendon does on this.

[InVINCEable 358]

Look i've already apologised, i didn't know he had been here for a while and was welcomed, found it odd someone who supports another team would come onto this forum and defend Essendon. No need to keep going at me.

[jnrmac 20,055]

I never wanted to hijack the thread.

It just sort of happened that way.

I know my place.

I don't disrespect the MFC.

I try to give an oppositions point of view while maintaining the fact this is a Melbourne FC website.

I'm more than happy to stop talking about the Essendon scandal.

There are no winners.

I "came back" here because of last weeks tragic passing of Robert Flower.

I'm not a troll and I'm not here to put peoples noses out of joint.

Thanks for the support guys.

BTW, todays Garlett trade was a steal IMHO.

Fair call. Apologies then.

[InVINCEable 358]

I never wanted to hijack the thread.

It just sort of happened that way.

I know my place.

I don't disrespect the MFC.

I try to give an oppositions point of view while maintaining the fact this is a Melbourne FC website.

I'm more than happy to stop talking about the Essendon scandal.

There are no winners.

I "came back" here because of last weeks tragic passing of Robert Flower.

I'm not a troll and I'm not here to put peoples noses out of joint.

Thanks for the support guys.

BTW, todays Garlett trade was a steal IMHO.

Yep sorry again, Ash. Promise not to be so stubborn next time. Welcome to support the Dees.

[Undeeterred 3,123]

I know my place.

I don't disrespect the MFC.

I try to give an oppositions point of view while maintaining the fact this is a Melbourne FC website.

I'm more than happy to stop talking about the Essendon scandal.

There are no winners.

Completely understand. However, you do sound like someone though who has come over here for a bit of sympathy about what is happening at your club.

Frankly, for the most part we don't get it from yours, so you won't get it from ours.

[ignition. 1,463]

You don't think Ryder is worth 17 and 36?

Can I ask what you think he is worth?

People seem to think because of this drug saga, we don't deserve to be treated fairly at the trade table.

It's not how it works.

You do realise that most AFL supporters outside the bubble that is Demonland think that pick 3 for Frawley is a joke.

Why reward Melbourne for incompetence at the draft, developing players, and just in general being a poor on-field club is what they are saying.

Pick 19 for Franklin they are saying,pick 15 or whatever for Ablett they are saying.

I know how the FA compensation works, so I understand why you ended up with pick 3.

Essendon had governance issues. Paddy Ryder wants to leave because of it.

Melbourne has had a very poorly run football department for many years, James Frawley wanted to leave because of it.

Essendon has been punished by the AFL for our governance issues.

The harshest penalties ever given to a club by the AFL.

It was deserved.

If people have issues with this current Ryder scenario, that's ok.

But don't pull out the whole "I hate Essendon, those scumbags deserve nothing for Ryder", because those people aren't looking at it properly.

If you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the AFL for allowing it.

But I can assure you, they are doing whatever they can to make sure this case does not end up in court or any grievance tribunal.

I didn't return here to get caught up in debates about trades, Essendon drugs scandals and alike.

I know 95% of people on here hate my club, and you all must be loving the turmoil we are going through at the moment.

I can't defend what my club did.

Football has not been enjoyable for 2 years now.

Happy for people to hate us.

Call us drug cheats if you want.

But no one blames Melbourne for getting pick 3 for Frawley.

So why blame Essendon if we can get pick 21 extra for Ryder?

I'll just go away now and prepare for the abuse I cop for this post.

I'm not writing to abuse you, however I will happily have a debate with you.

As I made it clear on here a couple times, I am a Biochemist. I have spent years and years working in a lab and going through the scientific literature, although my work and field revolves around cancer or more specifically the processes and mechanisms of cancer invasion. So when the names of the agents or peptides were released the first thing I did was look them up on the appropriate databases where they would have been originally published in peer reviewed journals (PubMed, Web of Science, etc.) - Not Google which cites websites created by the likes of you and I.

So with regards to my scientific background it's actually quite easy for me to read the scientific literature (on new or different drugs) and incorporate or adapt my broad understanding of the molecular signalling pathways (of a cell) that contribute to a range of physiological functions within the body (e.g. muscular hypertrophy and lipolysis).

Now aside from the concepts of "cheating" or "lack of governance" - for what your club has been punished for, what has concerned me far more is the simple fact that very little is known about the long term effects of these drugs. The drugs injected have been poorly characterized and like that of AOD-9604 potentially carcinogenic. For example the peptide (a small sequence of amino acids - the natural building blocks of proteins) AOD-9604 was designed to mimic the active site of the Human Growth Hormone (HGH) that has been scientifically supported on numerous occasions to increase the risks of cancer with those that use it in an overexpressed fashion (like that of gym junkies, not necessarily those with a deficiency).

(NOTE: Active site = part that interacts with the receptor, in this case the cellular growth factor receptor (GFR) that initiates an internal (cellular) signalling cascade)

Originally the general design concept behind AOD-9604 was to develop a form of the HGH with fewer side effects by essentially removing the overall protein and other protein-protein interactive sites to only leave the region that performs it's main function - the "active site", this could potentially be a welcome addition for those requiring HGH supplementation due to a deficiency. However, the links to the HGH and cancer are most likely due to the overexpression of the downstream GFR pathways - not the additional regulatory regions of the protein, so there is probably a similar trend with AOD-9604. Although "probably" is just as much the problem, the fact is we don't know enough about the long term side effects of it, and your club chose to inject the players whilst going against the opinions of the club doctor and other medicos (those most highly qualified) potentially putting your players long term health at risk. Whether ASADA sent an email confirming or denying it on the band substances list is beside the point, alternatively Mark "Bomber" Thompson's claims that it doesn't cause cancer is a blatant lie, he has no clue.

Now lets get onto the injection of pig brain lysate the alleged biochemist Dank stated he used on the players. First things first it's from a pig, in no way will this give any form of performance enhancement, it will only increase the bodies natural immune response to generate antibodies as it's from a foreign organism (pig/ porcine) and again place the players at risk of developing long term health issues like prion disease (e.g. mad cows disease and kuru) as it's raw brain extract. Secondly to that this tells me Dank is and never was a biochemist like myself or my colleges, even the earliest of biochemists (honours students) would learn and pick up on something like this quite quickly within their starting careers. At the very most I can presume Dank has himself a degree in Science where he majored in Biochemistry - most likely graduating with D's, he has then gone to the Essendon football club, gained authority and injected the players with a number of poorly characterized and hazardous. This is the equivalent of getting a kid out of high school having done year 12 wood work and putting him on a building site as the foreman.

So there again is that lack of governance that yes your club has been punished for but what's worse is the lack of duty of care and long term well being of the players health that no your club has not been properly punished for.

So it is my opinion that Paddy Ryder and any other player at the club can exercise their right to terminate their contract with the Essendon football club as they did not maintain their duty of care by placing the players long term health at risk, this must occur in every workplace across the country. Your club should consider itself lucky that they are getting any form of trade as he can simply walk out, become a free agent and Essendon would be powerless to gain any form of compensation.

[Undeeterred 3,123]

I'm not writing to abuse you, however I will happily have a debate with you.

As I made it clear on here a couple times, I am a Biochemist. I have spent years and years working in a lab and going through the scientific literature, although my work and field revolves around cancer or more specifically the processes and mechanisms of cancer invasion. So when the names of the agents or peptides were released the first thing I did was look them up on the appropriate databases where they would have been originally published in peer reviewed journals (PubMed, Web of Science, etc.) - Not Google which cites websites created by the likes of you and I.

So with regards to my scientific background it's actually quite easy for me to read the scientific literature (on new or different drugs) and incorporate or adapt my broad understanding of the molecular signalling pathways (of a cell) that contribute to a range of physiological functions within the body (e.g. muscular hypertrophy and lipolysis).

Now aside from the concepts of "cheating" or "lack of governance" - for what your club has been punished for, what has concerned me far more is the simple fact that very little is known about the long term effects of these drugs. The drugs injected have been poorly characterized and like that of AOD-9604 potentially carcinogenic. For example the peptide (a small sequence of amino acids - the natural building blocks of proteins) AOD-9604 was designed to mimic the active site of the Human Growth Hormone (HGH) that has been scientifically supported on numerous occasions to increase the risks of cancer with those that use it in an overexpressed fashion (like that of gym junkies, not necessarily those with a deficiency).

(NOTE: Active site = part that interacts with the receptor, in this case the cellular growth factor receptor (GFR) that initiates an internal (cellular) signalling cascade)

Originally the general design concept behind AOD-9604 was to develop a form of the HGH with fewer side effects by essentially removing the overall protein and other protein-protein interactive sites to only leave the region that performs it's main function - the "active site", this could potentially be a welcome addition for those requiring HGH supplementation due to a deficiency. However, the links to the HGH and cancer are most likely due to the overexpression of the downstream GFR pathways - not the additional regulatory regions of the protein, so there is probably a similar trend with AOD-9604. Although "probably" is just as much the problem, the fact is we don't know enough about the long term side effects of it, and your club chose to inject the players whilst going against the opinions of the club doctor and other medicos (those most highly qualified) potentially putting your players long term health at risk. Whether ASADA sent an email confirming or denying it on the band substances list is beside the point, alternatively Mark "Bomber" Thompson's claims that it doesn't cause cancer is a blatant lie, he has no clue.

Now lets get onto the injection of pig brain lysate the alleged biochemist Dank stated he used on the players. First things first it's from a pig, in no way will this give any form of performance enhancement, it will only increase the bodies natural immune response to generate antibodies as it's from a foreign organism (pig/ porcine) and again place the players at risk of developing long term health issues like prion disease (e.g. mad cows disease and kuru) as it's raw brain extract. Secondly to that this tells me Dank is and never was a biochemist like myself or my colleges, even the earliest of biochemists (honours students) would learn and pick up on something like this quite quickly within their starting careers. At the very most I can presume Dank has himself a degree in Science where he majored in Biochemistry - most likely graduating with D's, he has then gone to the Essendon football club, gained authority and injected the players with a number of poorly characterized and hazardous. This is the equivalent of getting a kid out of high school having done year 12 wood work and putting him on a building site as the foreman.

So there again is that lack of governance that yes your club has been punished for but what's worse is the lack of duty of care and long term well being of the players health that no your club has not been properly punished for.

So it is my opinion that Paddy Ryder and any other player at the club can exercise their right to terminate their contract with the Essendon football club as they did not maintain their duty of care by placing the players long term health at risk, this must occur in every workplace across the country. Your club should consider itself lucky that they are getting any form of trade as he can simply walk out, become a free agent and Essendon would be powerless to gain any form of compensation.

Ouch.

[titan_uranus 24,975]

On the contractual clause potentially available to Ryder, it's not that simple. It's not clear cut that he can rely on it and I think he, Port and Essendon know it. There's a messy dispute to be had over it. It is therefore in everyone's best interests (and, pragmatically, it's everyone's only true option) to find a trade.

[ignition. 1,463]

On the contractual clause potentially available to Ryder, it's not that simple. It's not clear cut that he can rely on it and I think he, Port and Essendon know it. There's a messy dispute to be had over it. It is therefore in everyone's best interests (and, pragmatically, it's everyone's only true option) to find a trade.

I disagree, the Essendon Football Club still believe they've done nothing wrong. They believe that if a player walks out on them before their contract ends that they can take them to court.

So therefore it is in their best interest for both the player and club to seek a trade.

Edited October 9, 2014 by ignition.

[deanox 9,898]

I never wanted to hijack the thread.

It just sort of happened that way.

I know my place.

I don't disrespect the MFC.

I try to give an oppositions point of view while maintaining the fact this is a Melbourne FC website.

I'm more than happy to stop talking about the Essendon scandal.

There are no winners.

I "came back" here because of last weeks tragic passing of Robert Flower.

I'm not a troll and I'm not here to put peoples noses out of joint.

Thanks for the support guys.

BTW, todays Garlett trade was a steal IMHO.

Long time no see Ash! Good to have you back.

You're right, Garlett was a steal.

[beelzebub 23,313]

I never wanted to hijack the thread. Wouldnt concern yourself, we do it all the time

It just sort of happened that way.

I know my place. Like all of us , in front of a keyboard...dont sweat it

I don't disrespect the MFC.

I try to give an oppositions point of view while maintaining the fact this is a Melbourne FC website. Welcome and more over interesting..We get a bit one eyed ( not often ...but sometimes )

I'm more than happy to stop talking about the Essendon scandal. Hell ...we aren't A wonderful distraction for us !!

There are no winners. NO...Time some learnt that eh Jacques !!

I "came back" here because of last weeks tragic passing of Robert Flower. We all felt it.

I'm not a troll and I'm not here to put peoples noses out of joint. Who'd notice that amongst all our in-fighting lol

Thanks for the support guys. We're all just footy tragics under the jumpers

BTW, todays Garlett trade was a steal IMHO. It was....yuck yuck yuck YUCK !!

[Ash35 425]

Long time no see Ash! Good to have you back.

You're right, Garlett was a steal.

Garlett knows where the goals are.

Has speed to burn.

I think he looked a very dangerous forward under Ratten, but just didn't gel with Malthouse.

Played a lot of VFL in 2014 cos Malthouse wanted him to chase and tackle more.

I can live with that when a guy kicks 40+ goals a season, which Garlett is capable of doing.

Essendon were keen, he toured Tullamarine.

He would have filled a massive hole in our team [small quick crumbing forward].

But he chose Melbourne, so another feather in your cap.

For the price of a pretty late draft pick, he has massive up side.

Undeeterred, I didn't come here looking for sympathy.

But I take your points on board.

I have learnt over the years that there isn't a lot of love for the Dons here at Demonland, which is fine.