A saints fan said to me today that they will be taking Petracca and he heard we will take Brayshaw and Lever

If that's the case, it seems as though we should select Brayshaw with pick 2, and trade pick 3 to GWS for pick 6 and a handy midfielder, and then use pick 6 on Lever.

If that's the case, it seems as though we should select Brayshaw with pick 2, and trade pick 3 to GWS for pick 6 and a handy midfielder, and then use pick 6 on Lever.

Lever won't last to pick 6

Trade 2 to the GWS in the agreement to let brayshaw fall at 3 and we get 6&7 back.

The Boyd trade could create a massive ripple effect.

We were apparently in talks early around GWS trading for pick 1 from St Kilda.

Our involvement was to procure something from GWS in order to give Saints a free run at McCartin.

The Boyd trade really opens up the conversation again.

Sure GWS want Petracca, but would imagine we pick 3 may be of interest if they want someone like Peter Wright to be an instant tall replacement for Boyd. We agree to take Brayshaw, GWS agree not to select McCartin, there could yet be a basis for a trade for someone like Shiel.

yep makes sense ChaserJ.... now what do they have axess of in the way of players ?

What does this even mean ? We are talking about next season only, rediculous statement

Your logic seems to be "St Kilda will improve more than us, therefore we'll finish last". Won't the same thing therefore be true the next year as well?

It seems to me that you're just taking one fact (trades) and drawing an entire conclusion for a season - and one that has the most pessimistic outcome imagineable. I just don't see how you can do that when there are a million other variables that affect the ladder that haven't happened yet.

I hope Boyd has Scully on speed dial to discuss the pressures of being paid way too much, for way too long way, way too early. A 7 year deal for a guy whose played 9 games if these facts are correct is lunacy.

Brisbane knocked it out of the park? Lets get a grip, they got lucky that a player wanted to go there for family reasons. Brisbane got lucky.

We got unlucky with Trengove's injury.

The dogs fell apart and then have put too many eggs in one untried basket.

And there is a day to go.

Why are we suddenly talking about finishing last? Do we think there's no scope for improvement in our existing players? Very few clubs turn over their lists in one off season, and yet clubs move up and down the ladder all the time.

FFS guys, get a grip.

Maybe because we finished second last this year and last year and third last the year before??

probably pretty safe to come clean about the riddles gentlemen

Your logic seems to be "St Kilda will improve more than us, therefore we'll finish last". Won't the same thing therefore be true the next year as well?

It seems to me that you're just taking one fact (trades) and drawing an entire conclusion for a season - and one that has the most pessimistic outcome imagineable. I just don't see how you can do that when there are a million other variables that affect the ladder that haven't happened yet.

This so called logic that you speak of has nothing at all to do with the reason i think we will finish near the bottom Nasher. The playing list is the reason i think we will finish near the bottom, it's not very good at all, even with the addition of Lumumba and Garlett.

This so called logic that you speak of has nothing at all to do with the reason i think we will finish near the bottom Nasher. The playing list is the reason i think we will finish near the bottom, it's not very good at all, even with the addition of Lumumba and Garlett.

Yes, the state of the list usually is why teams finish last.

there are some very negative nannies here.

Has me tossed why anyone would presume the Sainters to kick on much...or the pups for that matter.

We were able at times to take the game on but seriously lacked scoreboard impact.

We havent magically overcome that , but youd have to think Garlett and Hogan effect might add 60-70 goals between them and others.. Thats a pretty big dymanic change.

We wont be last ...Essendon have reserved that spot already.

I dont know what we might be but im certainly not writing them off even before a ball's bounced; that's crazy.

Why not have a late crack at toby greene - i hear he is a chance

Its not that good of a year to have pick 1

Petracca is better than the rest of the draft but hes no stand out #1

You missed my point.

GWS want pick 1. They will pay over the odds to get it.

If we had pick 1 we would also trade it for more picks.

Just wondering when we landed the Tyson deal last year .

Was it on last day or earlier

Wonder if with gws losing Boyd they will offer up one of their mids for a pick upgrade to get them a tall

We will win 7 to 9 games next year after the trade period and strong draft position we will improve. Paul Roos has a another pre season to get this game plan into all these guys and give me the hulk over Boyd any day of the week. Tyson,viney,brayshaw, jones,vince,toumpass,cross,watts,pettraca /macartin,hogan,jkh,Salem I will back Paul Roos in to turn this ship around. Go the mighty demons

Your logic seems to be "St Kilda will improve more than us, therefore we'll finish last". Won't the same thing therefore be true the next year as well?

It seems to me that you're just taking one fact (trades) and drawing an entire conclusion for a season - and one that has the most pessimistic outcome imagineable. I just don't see how you can do that when there are a million other variables that affect the ladder that haven't happened yet.

Is there any chance we finish out of the bottom 4? If not who gives a stuff, the rest is semantics.

Good on ya Big Jim, was getting a bit desperate in here..

This so called logic that you speak of has nothing at all to do with the reason i think we will finish near the bottom Nasher. The playing list is the reason i think we will finish near the bottom, it's not very good at all, even with the addition of Lumumba and Garlett.

It's fair enough. Lumuba and Garlett can't be expected to result in any more than maybe 1 win. We had several close games. An experienced running player and a goal sneak might have got the job done. But they'll do little for 10 goal blow outs.

Tyson, Viney, Dunn, Jones, Vince, Cross, Howe - many of our better players had good years last year. Others like Dawes and Grimes are what they are so to speak. Add Jamar, Pedersen, Jetta to that crop.

In terms of players who were well down last year Garland is probably the standout in terms of a form bounce. Unfortunately you can't add Trengove to that list.

Any improvement will come from Hogan, Toumpas, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Watts, Kent, Salem, JKH, McDonald, Michie, Barry, Riley. So let's hope they have it in them. Any top draft picks we take will just be a small part of that list. Throw Frost in there as well.

How much Roos can improve the midfield and small forward types of that list as well as if Hogan and McDonald can stand up will determine if we break out of the bottom 4.

Just wondering when we landed the Tyson deal last year .

Was it on last day or earlier

Wonder if with gws losing Boyd they will offer up one of their mids for a pick upgrade to get them a tall

We signed Dom on the 17th of October, trade period ended October 25

there are some very negative nannies here.

Has me tossed why anyone would presume the Sainters to kick on much...or the pups for that matter.

We were able at times to take the game on but seriously lacked scoreboard impact.

We havent magically overcome that , but youd have to think Garlett and Hogan effect might add 60-70 goals between them and others.. Thats a pretty big dymanic change.

We wont be last ...Essendon have reserved that spot already.

I dont know what we might be but im certainly not writing them off even before a ball's bounced; that's crazy.

Because we still have one of the worst groups of users of the ball ever assembled in the AFL and have done nothing to address that during the trade period.

We never had any real claim on Petracca.

The ramifications for GWS are quite large.

Tom Boyd is the first kid they wanted to keep that they have lost. Other Vic clubs will well and truly see that the other kids are gettable.

The borders of Western Sydney are at serious risk.

And they're probably not doing cartwheels about letting Tyson go either.

11 brownlow votes in his first full season.

Because we still have one of the worst groups of users of the ball ever assembled in the AFL and have done nothing to address that during the trade period.

What exactly did you want them to do? Sack 20 players and miraculously replace them with others?

Is there any chance we finish out of the bottom 4? If not who gives a stuff, the rest is semantics.

Yes there is.

Adding ready-made best-22 players will always give some bump - Vince, Tyson...Garlett, Lumumba. But more important is incremental improvement. Buddy, Hodge, Roughead, Lewis, Mitchell etc. all played in some mediocre sides early in the piece. I honestly don't know if there's a powerhouse dormant in this list, but the improvement needs to come from within. It's not possible to build a great team entirely from trades and free agency.

Expect improvement, expect some new faces, and there's a chance there are four worse teams than us next year.

Is there any chance we finish out of the bottom 4? If not who gives a stuff, the rest is semantics.

Yes, there is a chance. Most clubs who have been in the bottom four break out of it through organic improvement rather than mass single-season turnover. I can't see a reason why we could not. Until the Collingwood game this year, we looked like we might be one of them.

I'm not saying we will, just that we could. Tipping us for last place in October seems to be going ridiculously early to me.