A curious position I thought for Emma. Not sure she really gets it to be honest. Problem with many a journo's scribblings, and I rate hers is that its an observation from outside a club. She may not fully comprehend the mechanisms by which a club works.

Maybe she should stick to young talent observations. She suddenly out of her depth

In fairness to Emma, not many other journo's writing on the topic seem to understand either.

Caro appears to grasp the concept of the 'big picture' - but not many others seem to want to acknowledge the good of the game.

In fairness to Emma, not many other journo's writing on the topic seem to understand either.

Caro appears to grasp the concept of the 'big picture' - but not many others seem to want to acknowledge the good of the game.

Caro for all her eccentricities has been around a footy club for ever. She has seen a club from the inside. Its become a very biased and blinkered one at times but none the less she has an idea. I dont think Emma is as well acquainted in that regard . Flanagan is the master at seeing it from inside.

I really find the attitude that high draft picks provide an answer to our woes quite staggering, considering our own history and the examples of other clubs that have built, and challenged, without them. A priority pick is so far down the order of needs that its main achievement is adding to the stigma of the pathetic nature of the club, with the hand always being held straight out with the palm facing up.

My main reason for wanting one is not because I feel we need one, but to shove it up the noses of opposition clubs and supporters who strongly oppose it. I'm quite aware there are many out there who would much rather see the club die than become competitive. The extent of the vitriol leads me to want to see them cry some more.

But outside of my desire to [censored] off the enemy, I don't want one, nor do I feel we need one. Sure, the rules are there and the club is simply seeking to have those rules applied. But if we can get by without one, why sacrifice even more self respect and pride for one? We're almost running on empty as it is.

And hey presto, I'm drawn into the death spiral that is the PP debate again. Yee haw.

I maintain that writing off JKH and Salem is evidence of how silly the argument has become. They haven't completed their first season yet.

I really find the attitude that high draft picks provide an answer to our woes quite staggering, considering our own history and the examples of other clubs that have built, and challenged, without them. A priority pick is so far down the order of needs that its main achievement is adding to the stigma of the pathetic nature of the club, with the hand always being held straight out with the palm facing up.

My main reason for wanting one is not because I feel we need one, but to shove it up the noses of opposition clubs and supporters who strongly oppose it. I'm quite aware there are many out there who would much rather see the club die than become competitive. The extent of the vitriol leads me to want to see them cry some more.

But outside of my desire to [censored] the enemy, I don't want one, nor do I feel we need one. Sure, the rules are there and the club is simply seeking to have those rules applied. But if we can get by without one, why sacrifice even more self respect and pride for one? We're almost running on empty as it is.

And hey presto, I'm drawn into the death spiral that is the PP debate again. Yee haw.

I maintain that writing off JKH and Salem is evidence of how silly the argument has become. They haven't completed their first season yet.

You have my vote P-man

Lets use what we get well. From last to First does not hang on one PP.

I really find the attitude that high draft picks provide an answer to our woes quite staggering, considering our own history and the examples of other clubs that have built, and challenged, without them. A priority pick is so far down the order of needs that its main achievement is adding to the stigma of the pathetic nature of the club, with the hand always being held straight out with the palm facing up.

My main reason for wanting one is not because I feel we need one, but to shove it up the noses of opposition clubs and supporters who strongly oppose it. I'm quite aware there are many out there who would much rather see the club die than become competitive. The extent of the vitriol leads me to want to see them cry some more.

But outside of my desire to [censored] the enemy, I don't want one, nor do I feel we need one. Sure, the rules are there and the club is simply seeking to have those rules applied. But if we can get by without one, why sacrifice even more self respect and pride for one? We're almost running on empty as it is.

And hey presto, I'm drawn into the death spiral that is the PP debate again. Yee haw.

I maintain that writing off JKH and Salem is evidence of how silly the argument has become. They haven't completed their first season yet.

A couple of things, getting a priority pick is not the answer. I'm not sure anyone is saying that but it is part of range of things that can help move forward. Some are already in place. Jackson, Roos and a new coaching group for example.

I don't think you will find one club in the modern era, lets say the last 10 years that hasn't built their success on the back of an advantage given them. Brisbane with extra allowance and the Fitzroy connection, Sydney allowances to give them, extra cap, Geelong under the old father son rule, Collingwood and Hawthorn both with key PP's.

I'm not writing JKH or Salem off but I'm not writing them on either. They can't be used as evidence we are on the way up, it's just a ridiculous argument from Quayle. I made a comment of not being sure on JKH and I'm not, too many on here rate players way before they should be, Kent is another. At the moment I wouldn't be thinking we could build a team on these 2 and of course they need time to develop. I hope they get there but the odd glimpse is not enough.

It would make more sense for the AFL just to eliminate the priority pick system.

It would make more sense for the AFL just to eliminate the priority pick system.

it would

Quayle is a huge believer in kids - that's what she knows, and she knows it well.

But we know that kids by themselves cannot right a ship.

Some of her list will not make it, some of our picks in the next few years won't make it.

Our disaster is being a team that has had a hit rate of about 20% with getting value from high picks rather than the league average of about 50-75% (I will do some research a thread when I have some time).

We will have to have a hit rate of close to 100% with the last couple drafts and the next couple drafts if we don't get any draft assistance.

I really find the attitude that high draft picks provide an answer to our woes quite staggering, considering our own history and the examples of other clubs that have built, and challenged, without them. A priority pick is so far down the order of needs that its main achievement is adding to the stigma of the pathetic nature of the club, with the hand always being held straight out with the palm facing up.

My main reason for wanting one is not because I feel we need one, but to shove it up the noses of opposition clubs and supporters who strongly oppose it. I'm quite aware there are many out there who would much rather see the club die than become competitive. The extent of the vitriol leads me to want to see them cry some more.

But outside of my desire to [censored] the enemy, I don't want one, nor do I feel we need one. Sure, the rules are there and the club is simply seeking to have those rules applied. But if we can get by without one, why sacrifice even more self respect and pride for one? We're almost running on empty as it is.

And hey presto, I'm drawn into the death spiral that is the PP debate again. Yee haw.

I maintain that writing off JKH and Salem is evidence of how silly the argument has become. They haven't completed their first season yet.

Your first paragraph and last line are somewhat ironic because I want a PP because it helps build a list - not because I want some kid to save us.

Case in point was last year with the trade that got us Salem. We had a top 2 pick and we may have taken Billings or Salem (from what I have heard) but because we traded down we managed to get Tyson and still snag a kid we targeted.

That would not have happened if we did not have the capital of Pick 2.

We simply need more capital.

Your first paragraph and last line are somewhat ironic because I want a PP because it helps build a list - not because I want some kid to save us.

Case in point was last year with the trade that got us Salem. We had a top 2 pick and we may have taken Billings or Salem (from what I have heard) but because we traded down we managed to get Tyson and still snag a kid we targeted.

That would not have happened if we did not have the capital of Pick 2.

We simply need more capital.

RP...the problem I think is some still see picks as this player or that. As you rightly suggest they are nothing more than currency. Thats the nominated trading vehicle come EOS...picks.

Whilst some perpetuate the myth that this bloke or that will be the "one" to turn us around they will be eternally disappointed.

Just as Roos by himself cant to the impossible, it take a whole bevvy of assistants similarly minded to get a message across it will take a similar bevvy of new players to help instill a culture that can be built upon.

Better picks get us MORE of such players...not individual super-heroes.

No one is saying a PP will solve our problems. But obviously the more talent and trading opportunities the better. The main argument against a PP is that it might breed complacency thinking that a PP will solve all our problems. Even If anyone in the club and the players thought that was the case in the past, sure they cannot believe it any longer.

Further, I don't think there is any evidence that the fix-it-ourselves/self-sufficiency argument is strong - certainly not on the timescale we need to stay viable. When you have been as bad as us, it is time to accept a blow to your pride.

So I think there is no good argument against going for a PP. We should be countering arguments against it made by journos and other clubs rather than thinking up reasons to support them.

As for Emma Quayle - journos sometimes play to their audience. Almost all of her readers are not MFC supporters and they would rarely think of what is good for the overall competition - rather they see any other club getting a leg up as a disadvantage for theirs.

I cannot recall anyone arguing when PP's were given out in the past to C'wood and the Hawks that there is no need to do so because their lists had a pile of players who would probably become stars. It has to be based mainly on past performance to have any semblance of objectivity rather than gazing into a crystal ball. You could mount an argument that it may also make sense to consider glaring holes in a team a poorly performing team, eg. we don't have a forward line.

What about if Richmond were awake that day we beat them?

What if Carlton kicked straight?

What if Essendon put us away in one of the worst halves (the first) of football under Roos?

What if Adelaide had Walker?

What if...

What if we are historically bad and the rule to help the league in this scenario needs to be applied?

What if we had not ran out of steam in the other 6 or so matches we were in front come last qtr.....Always two sides to the argument.

However for what it's worth, I think we warrant getting one still.

Edited August 20, 201410 yr by Wormburner

What if we had not ran out of steam in the other 6 or so matches we were in front come last qtr.....Always two sides to the argument.

However for what it's worth, I think we warrant getting one still.

That post was in response to the other side of the argument...

Scheizenhaus article from Quayle. Is she related to Dan? Does nobody teach these people logic?

Her premise? You don't "deserve" a PP because you are hopeless. Well, wow, that makes a lot of sense. Let's give one to Hawthorn, then, or the Swans. They're very good. They certainly deserve one.

There's no "deserve"; there are simply rules. The AFL is so secretive I can't work out what those rules are, but if a team doesn't get a PP after 6 wins in 2 years, they might as well throw the rule out, admit that the AFL is nothing more than a business designed to serve the interests of the elites and their pet teams, and that riff-raff like us, Dogs, Saints, etc, are only allowed in as cannon-fodder.

What if we had not ran out of steam in the other 6 or so matches we were in front come last qtr.....Always two sides to the argument.

However for what it's worth, I think we warrant getting one still.

But we did Wb that is the point. We were not good enough to win

But we did Wb that is the point. We were not good enough to win

I agree. But looking at it from the leagues perspective if they were ever going to give us one it would have been last year after we were flogged every week. At least this year we've won 4 and been within shot of winning come last qtr.

I agree. But looking at it from the leagues perspective if they were ever going to give us one it would have been last year after we were flogged every week. At least this year we've won 4 and been within shot of winning come last qtr.

Ok I agree

IMO the new regime were never going to give us a pp.

While Evans is in that position we will not get one.

If we lost the next 2 games by 20 goals the answer would be the same.

But we did Wb that is the point. We were not good enough to win

Exactly...

Patrick Smith thinks we should get one...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/afl-must-bury-demons-by-moving-melbourne-out-of-the-mire-of-mediocrity/story-fnca0u4y-1227029891115

Of course we SHOULD get one. That isn't the question....it's will the corrupt Fukin AFL give us one?

I don't like opposition coaches commenting on whether we should get a priority pick or not.
Richardson needs an uppercut.

Their opinions shouldn't effect the results. But knowing the AFL....

the word independent is not in the afl commission's vocabulary

Also I love how people say we don't deserve the priority because we're too bad

In fairness to Emma, not many other journo's writing on the topic seem to understand either.

Caro appears to grasp the concept of the 'big picture' - but not many others seem to want to acknowledge the good of the game.

I’m a big fan of Emma’s work in general. Aside from her coverage on draftee’s, she did some excellent work on the Kurt Tippett/Adelaide salary cap saga.

This may be a case of my MFC supporter hat being on tight, but I don’t agree with her assertion that Melbourne don’t need assistance. In most cases, the high end draft selections we’ve had were used on players who were generally picked where they were rated (by Emma and the wider draft focused media). We didn’t take many flyers with those selections (Lucas Cook being an exception), so we weren’t the only ones that saw the talent.

However, something has gone wrong along the journey with a lot of those guys, and the problems may not be repairable. Emma’s working on the assumption that the kids she listed (and saw a fair bit of when they were promising juniors) will all magically develop and lead the team forward. Is Emma basing her judgements on what she saw of them as juniors? I hope she’s right, but how much of Grimes has she seen lately? Does anyone know how Trengove will bounce back?

We sat in a relatively similar position last year, told that we’d be better when Clark was back, what if we’re sitting here next year asking the same questions of JT and the same questions of the list in general? How long can we wait? How long can the competition afford to wait?

Edited August 20, 201410 yr by ChaserJ