I am amazed this thread has generated so much activity.

I recorded AFL360 thinking that King and Maclure were going to give us some real injsights but there was nothing there but confirmation of what many have said on this site: essentially that Roos has spent the year teaching the team how to defend and to commit but that has taken us far as it was going to and the team now has to learn to attack.

Trade Watts? You mean no-one's ever said that before?

Trade Toumpas, Grimes, Trenners?

As others have said, they don't know about Toump's surgery? Really, if that is as shallow as their research was just let it go.

Trenners has been hampered this year and may well break out next.

King's get in five picks inside 20 was an academic exercise, nothing more.

The segment genuinely disappointed me, but maybe I should be cheered by the insight we get on this site.

I am not sure why you are so amazed pitmaster

For the majority of the last decade by August the only thing dees supporters have to talk about is the state of our list i.e. Players.

Add in Trading, drafting and you have the sum total of our interest.

Last nights show fits in nicely with those subjects.

Hence the interest.

I am amazed this thread has generated so much activity.

I recorded AFL360 thinking that King and Maclure were going to give us some real injsights but there was nothing there but confirmation of what many have said on this site: essentially that Roos has spent the year teaching the team how to defend and to commit but that has taken us far as it was going to and the team now has to learn to attack.

Trade Watts? You mean no-one's ever said that before?

Trade Toumpas, Grimes, Trenners?

As others have said, they don't know about Toump's surgery? Really, if that is as shallow as their research was just let it go.

Trenners has been hampered this year and may well break out next.

King's get in five picks inside 20 was an academic exercise, nothing more.

The segment genuinely disappointed me, but maybe I should be cheered by the insight we get on this site.

Spot on, what a bunch of tripe that was. You could see Gerard was trying to get them to say something far out, like trade in Pendelbury or something. Instead all they could offer up was "get rid of all the top draft picks from the last 5 years, and get 5 of the best kids this year". Complete lack of insight or lateral thinking.

Absolute crap.

I've seen very little reprogramming. Roos has simply trying to do what every coach has tried to do with Watts except Roos and has had the same level of success as far as I can tell.

Despite categorically stating Watts would play on a wing that was abandoned after about a month as he shifted forward. Then he started failing there so he was shifted back. Right now he's playing back and forward. Roos is breaking his own rules with Watts!

Unfortunately I think Roos is another in a long line of coaches who gets fooled by the training track performances and blinded by concerns about the PR battle and destroying poor Jacky's confidence instead of just treating him on the merits of his performance.

Watts was moved forward because Dawes, Clarke and Hogan couldn't get on the park, and he was next best.

All things being equal he would have had more time playing midfield.

His best position based on his attributes would surely be high half forward kicking into the forward targets.

Just my two cents worth anyway.

People like The Ox and King make these sweeping statements in an attempt to remain relevant and provoke a reaction, if they had any radical ideas that would revolutionize the club or footy in general, they would have clubs knocking down their doors to become involved. They are both failed assistant coaches, in Ox's case a part time one at that.

Watts was moved forward because Dawes, Clarke and Hogan couldn't get on the park, and he was next best.

All things being equal he would have had more time playing midfield.

His best position based on his attributes would surely be high half forward kicking into the forward targets.

Just my two cents worth anyway.

People like The Ox and King make these sweeping statements in an attempt to remain relevant and provoke a reaction, if they had any radical ideas that would revolutionize the club or footy in general, they would have clubs knocking down their doors to become involved. They are both failed assistant coaches, in Ox's case a part time one at that.

Or sometimes its people who are slightly removed that can have a clearer perspective. Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

Or sometimes its people who are slightly removed that can have a clearer perspective. Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

True. And sometimes it is a $&%$ing shovel. The trick is to tell the difference ... :-) :-)

In terms of trading players that have been around 4-7 years, I think you have to look at it from the perspective of tallying how many times those guys have finished in the top 5 of each game this year. Role or not, players in this age group should be regularly turning up as the best performers. All I've seen this year is either this years imported players or 1st/2nd year players regularly featuring as the best performers, despite Roos trying to protect the younger players.

When Roos regularly touches on the cultural issues, few players have had more games in the last 4-7 years than Watts, Trenners & Grimes. I get the feeling it's the culture that Roos is trying to fix first.Too soon to give the captaincy to Viney, but he's exactly the sort of person that we ought to be getting more of. If Roos has such a great record of finding good players from other clubs, I say give him all the currency he needs to get the best players he can rather than hand over draft pick after draft pick.

Tired of this "oh they've been injured, they'll have a breakout year next year" line., If a player gets injured half way through their career, they rarely come back in stellar form unless they've already been a stellar player.

Bad culture is perpetrated by bad leadership. I think it's been no accident that Cross absence and Melbourne form slump has coincided.

Seriously, I can't believe people are getting their knickers in a knot.

The whole thing was not what we should do, it was a bold idea of fast tracking and a way to get 5 picks in the top 20ish.

So, going along with what was asked, Kingy came up with a way to achieve it.

Other than Toumpas, a lot of people have said to trade Trenners, Grimes and Watts at various times.

I don't necessarily have a problem with what they recommended but think the strategy of going to the draft again after the issues we've had is flawed. I agree with other posters on here that we would be better off trading out high picks for ready to go players.

However it seemed like King/Maclure weren't against that and I think I heard one of them talk doing a deal similar to last year where we did 2 & 20 for Tyson & 9. I think that's the path we should be looking down and focusing on some out of contract (or even in contract) players at other clubs we could lure across.

I agree with some of their points and the idea that we've only just crawled back to the position of a terrible team rather than a complete disaster but the idea of loading up on draft picks at the expense of senior players is a bit 2009.

Give the Captaincy to Viney ?????

Ad nauseum we hear about the MISTAKE of giving the Captaincy to Grimes & Trengrove and now we want to throw another kid to the wolves. Jack Viney is a Ball getter, needs to work on his disposal (look at how Nathan Jones has developed from a 2 grab to one grab player with strehgth (and heart). Then Jack could be considered.

I agree with some of their points and the idea that we've only just crawled back to the position of a terrible team rather than a complete disaster but the idea of loading up on draft picks at the expense of senior players is a bit 2009.

spot on. Never has it been more important to have a team with strong mid 20s blokes with 80 - 120 games under their belt. We went for kids just as the game shifted to this. Dumb. Is the reason gws struggle (captain obvious call I know) but won't if they can keep that group together

It's worked for the dogs only because they still have Gia, Murphy, Cooney, Boyd et al to guide the kids.

We had freakin Moloney & Sylvia setting standards. Yuck.

It's worked for the dogs only because they still have Gia, Murphy, Cooney, Boyd et al to guide the kids.

We had freakin Moloney & Sylvia setting standards. Yuck.

Way back at the end of 2007 when the rebuild started we did have James McDonald, Brad Green, Robbo, Miller, Rivers had somewhat established himself. That's the thing, I still believe that getting a raft of quality draft picks is an important part of rebuilding. If you're a crap team (as we were in 2007 and were always going to be in 08) you may as well go for lots of draft picks and bring a group through. And the plan was working well in 2010 and somewhat ok in 2011. Unfortunately it went haywire.

The current plan of mixing draft picks with mature talent, trades etc is nice in theory but you have less chances to add a wave of talent who can build in to something special at the same age. I think it relies more on developing talent in the reserves then adding them to the team piece by piece so that the list and team is improving.

If there was a team to go down the draft pick route now it would be a team like Carlton. Goodbye Waite, Walker, Kreuzer, hello 3 top 30 draft picks (maybe) and go from there. Roos said Sydney can't afford to rebuild due to losing relevance in the city. If that's true then Melbourne certainly can't afford to rebuild, we'd be left without any members.

This club needs to brave but smart. I for one have had enough years of poo from this list and want the club to go damn hard to do what needs to be done.

2015 MUST be a climb several spots season. I have already turned to watching more enjoyable games such as Geelong instead of the poo the MFC delivers.

Keeping serving up poo in 2015, and my 2000 bucks will be spent somewhere else.

Time to deliver for this club

I am dismissive because as far as I know most on here have never played or coached at AFL level, so have no idea what is required to perform at that level.

Second point is a lot of it is not original, usually gleaned from one of the many Footy Talking Heads we have these days

We also have posters who don't even watch the games pontificating

If you put forward a well thought argument I will read it, if the post contains nothing but the usual bashing, what is the point?

Ahhh Saty! I really didn’t want to get involved in a discussion with you but you are presenting as such a toss, I cannot help myself.

You say you are” dismissive because as far as I know most on here have never played or coached at AFL level”.

Now this begs the question as to your experience coaching or playing at AFL level. If it is zero (and please correct me if I am wrong) then I fail to see how the views of others are any less valid than yours.

Now as to “Talking Heads”, they are hard to avoid. Do you not watch/listen to them? Don’t say no because you have referred to King and that other idiot. So, is only you that can watch the “Talking Heads” with the appropriate discernment that we mere mortals lack?

Now what about posters “who don’t even watch games”? Saty, I believe they are expressing an opinion. Wow please have them flayed alive.

Get a life Saty.

Oh sorry. We all love your training reports.

David King cops a lot of criticism when hes usually right

Remember he was calling for Neelds head just 10 games into his coaching career, and he was spot in that it was a disaster to hire him in the first place

meanwhile MFC supporters called King a moron

He is a moron. In that instance he was right for the wrong reasons.

Smart and Demonland don't usually appear in the same sentence, Demonland has from last count about 30 players either traded or delisted, believe there is a collection being put together to pay out contracts

You do realise that "Demonland" isn't one person but a multitude of supporters. Each person is able to form their own opinions and have a discussion if you don't want to talk about the topic then fuclk off.

Edited August 15, 201410 yr by Dr. Gonzo

Yet another Saty "Demonland is awful and all of you are awful" derail

He is a moron. In that instance he was right for the wrong reasons.

Correct. The fact Neeld was gone 2 years later doesn't change the fact that calling for a coach's head 10 weeks in is just headline chasing rubbish. Every coach deserves a chance to lay their foundation, Neeld included.

You say you are” dismissive because as far as I know most on here have never played or coached at AFL level”.

What are you talking about BBO? Saty runs out onto the field with the boys every week! Someone has to wear the Rotten Ronald Deeman suit (or Chuck, Chuck Checker or whatever the bloody hell CS turned it into).

Edited August 16, 201410 yr by Colin B. Flaubert