There seem to be real cultural problems still plaguing the team on field, as if they actually have very little mateship with each other. The pathetic response to the Pedo hit yesterday, and only one player coming over to congratulate JKH on his first career goal, are only two examples that greatly concern me.

Fortunately PR clearly made a point of the latter, as every player on the field made sure to come congratulate Salem on his first goal. Here's hoping he brought up the incident with Pedo with the playing group as well.

There seem to be real cultural problems still plaguing the team on field, as if they actually have very little mateship with each other. The pathetic response to the Pedo hit yesterday, and only one player coming over to congratulate JKH on his first career goal, are only two examples that greatly concern me.

Fortunately PR clearly made a point of the latter, as every player on the field made sure to come congratulate Salem on his first goal. Here's hoping he brought up the incident with Pedo with the playing group as well.

I think that it is a by product of the player list being divided into the essential and non essentials during the Bailey/Neeld/Schwab/Connolly years. Young blokes were taking the veterans spots and it caused a lot of angst and resentment in the player group. That culture has remained and the distrust it bred as well.

Edited August 4, 201411 yr by Colin B. Flaubert

But he's not a psychologist. How could he know for sure? Better give our guys another couple of years to prove themselves.

Lets just wait until they get a full preseason right?

There seem to be real cultural problems still plaguing the team on field, as if they actually have very little mateship with each other. The pathetic response to the Pedo hit yesterday, and only one player coming over to congratulate JKH on his first career goal, are only two examples that greatly concern me.

Fortunately PR clearly made a point of the latter, as every player on the field made sure to come congratulate Salem on his first goal. Here's hoping he brought up the incident with Pedo with the playing group as well.

From the outside looking in it does look that way at times, but at the risk of nitpicking, the JKH non-celebration could be explained by them all getting around him when he kicked that mini bag against Richmond in the pre-season game.

But when you have lost for as long as this group has, it can either make you closer or go in the opposite direction.

He did manage to crack a half smile when talking about the mistakes. Seeing the absurdity of it all. He is being Melbournised.

hahhahaahaha thats so good P-man needed a good laugh.

The team is particularly inventive when working out new methods of turning the ball over or missing goals or losing the ball

I found watching the game quite hilarious. Maybe they should use these inventive skills for good and not bad that would make for a change. Absurdity is a great description

From the outside looking in it does look that way at times, but at the risk of nitpicking, the JKH non-celebration could be explained by them all getting around him when he kicked that mini bag against Richmond in the pre-season game.

But when you have lost for as long as this group has, it can either make you closer or go in the opposite direction.

The JKH one wasn't as big an issue as he had ignored a team instruction (he was supposed to pass it to Dawes).

However, the Pedersen one stinks like a dead cat in the middle of the road. Even if you think he is a p***k of a bloke, he is one of you! Don Scott and Leigh Matthews never spoke to each other but I am sure Scotty would have flown the flag for the team and the jumper (maybe Lethal not so much) if Matthews had been collected like that.

That's why the Dean Wallis', Sauce Merretts, Nick Maxwells (can't believe I am typing that) and Michael Longs can bully our club. It's because no one cares for the club or their mates.

Everyone rants about Hawthorn and how 'they disgraced the game of football' in the line in the sand game but at least they stopped Essendon from physically monstering their players. When Lloyd cleaned Brad Sewell up in 2009, the look on Campbell Brown's face and the tone of his voice showed that Lloyd wouldn't want to watch himself the next time he stepped on the field against Hawthorn (lucky for him, he was forced to retire by Matty Knights).

There is a difference between king hitting blokes who don't deserve it and faux acts of toughness and the attitude of 'you mess with him/me then you mess with the lot of us'. We have nothing close to the former attitude.

Edited August 4, 201411 yr by Colin B. Flaubert

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/melbournes-institutionalised-losers-may-never-be-able-to-change-20140804-1004iz.html

We simply need to turn over the list at the moment. Nothing more, nothing less. We have the people in charge, this time, who will be able to instill the right values in them so we don't have this happen again. For some on our list the way back seems to be too far.

Lot's of talk of turning over the list.

This implies we will have a pile of better players just waiting to be picked - wishful thinking, creative recruitment?

It will take time, and improvement will likely not be on Roos watch.

Lot's of talk of turning over the list.

This implies we will have a pile of better players just waiting to be picked - wishful thinking, creative recruitment?

It will take time, and improvement will likely not be on Roos watch.

People think we're going to find a way to trade Rohan Bail for Rory Sloane.

Yesterday was the worst game of the year - the most frustrating anyway. I was frustrated because we couldn't convert. Frustrated because I thought it was a game we should have won. Frustrated because deplorable skills meant that when we should have had a 6 goal lead we were looking shaky with a 14 point gap. Frustrated because for the 4th or 5th time this season we let a game drop we shouldn't have.

Then it occurred to me - the simple fact I was frustrated meant we had improved immeasurably from this time last year. Roos has thus far managed to get us from a team that was not at AFL standard to a bottom 4 side that has been reasonably competitive against teams near them on the ladder. A team that beat two of last years finalists plus one that look like it will make it this year, and knocked off the crows in Adelaide - a team that still could feature in finals. We pushed Port twice (they sit 5th). 6 games lost by less than 20 points.

If we had the forward line Roos thought he had to play with back in January (Hogan Dawes and Clarke) I think it's fair to say we would have just enjoyed win number 9 or 10 and looking at potentially an unlikely finals campaign. I know this sounds ridiculous but that's the reality of it. We would have beaten St Kilda round 1, the dogs twice, most likely port last round and Brisbane this round (I'm assuming we would have kicked something like 7.5 rather than 2.10 in the middle two quarters). Perhaps also giants and maybe port again in Alice springs. We wouldn't be having these discussions if Hogan hadn't hurt his back and Clarke hadn't retired.

We do make far to many skill errors and there is are a lot who need to be culled at the end if the season - but a lot of our errors come from a lack of a target which means 1 handball too many, 1 kick to many, a reluctance to play on. It leads to poor decision making because your looking for a target that should be there but isn't so rather than follow instinct your second guessing. Another reason is youth. We have a lot of young players who are surrounded by not brilliant senior players. All young players make mistakes but at better clubs the senior players are able to cover these errors and with the players development the mistakes are weeded out - or the player is.

This brings us to the next issue - player development and fitness. This has been sorely lacking and I put a fair wack of the blame at Mark Neelds feet. He identified this as an issue within days of being at the club. He stated several times during his first pre- season that the players were not even close to the minimum fitness required for AFL. Round 1 last season he stated after Port flogged us "no one saw that coming". A few days later it was revealed Frawley had said after watching him get burned off on tape "I was running faster than that... It felt like I was running faster...". 18 months after identifying our fitness was an issue nothing had been done about it. I'd argue the players were even more unfit but the issue here was that Neeld seemed to think they had improved. We have had no proper player development program in close to a decade. The culling of senior players by Bailey was a big mistake as it held up a lot of the on field development. The leadership and little bits of on field coaching disappeared at the same time we had a coaching attitude of "game plans will come - it's all about getting games into players". That's not player development. It got them to a certain point (2010) but when more was required it just wasn't there.

Roos is bringing this to us now. He knows how to develop players, he knows what's required to have a healthy culture. This year I suspect it was all about stopping the bleeding - which he has done but over the next pre season I think we will see a far bigger concentration on skill and fitness. With this and a target up forward we will improve out of sight next year. With a forward line we would have shown a lot more improvement this year. It requires patience because we have been rooted sideways with a coke bottle for too long - but don't be surprised to see us nearing finals by the end of Roos contract.

Our list is shell shocked almost.

They will not recover. Too much damage.

Lot's of talk of turning over the list.

This implies we will have a pile of better players just waiting to be picked - wishful thinking, creative recruitment?

It will take time, and improvement will likely not be on Roos watch.

I'm certain that we can draft some very good players and also get our hands on some decent talent through the FA and trading period as well. The change isn't going to happen overnight, and there is still more to it than just the list, but getting players in with the right mindset who haven't been in the club can only help us in the short and long term.

Our list is shell shocked almost.

They will not recover. Too much damage.

I agree WYL, I think there are a handful who can go on to become good players but the majority of the list from the previous few years has to be turned over, the sooner the next Gen Viney, Tyson and Hogan reach 100 games the better.

I agree WYL, I think there are a handful who can go on to become good players but the majority of the list from the previous few years has to be turned over, the sooner the next Gen Viney, Tyson and Hogan reach 100 games the better.

yep. About 10-15 are probably salvageable. The rest are just too damaged to play AFL. It started with 186 back in 2011....

yep. About 10-15 are probably salvageable. The rest are just too damaged to play AFL. It started with 186 back in 2011....

Hiring Neeld and a string of decisions that have followed have imo been equally as damaging

Hiring Neeld and a string of decisions that have followed have imo been equally as damaging

Agree with that. But it astounds me that players have not WANTED to improve for so long.

Roo's comments are spot on, yesterday we should have been beaten by 60 points, the only thing that kept us in front was Brisbane. The whole day was an extremely bad game of football, started with the Blease 15m pass to Vince that missed him by 15m and it went down hill from there.

We found ourselves 14 points up with little over 20mins to play, I reckon all our players started to think they were better then they are. They thought gees we have played some of our worst footy this year and we are still in front, that is what good teams can do we must be a good team. Wrong it was only a matter of time before Brisbane realized we are crap, it took them three and a bit quarters but once they did it was all over.

I have banged on about our players just being Dumb footballers, the only bloke I have confidence in when he gets the footy is Nev Jetta, he knows his limits and plays with in them. Funny to say this but I bet Paul Roos wishes he had 22 Nev Jetta's, blokes that will listen and play their role and have a read hot crack

Those players that are earmarked for delisting should not be played again, give others a chance to at least get some more AFL experience, which gives them the chance to either step up, or prove they are worse than the others.

We might struggle to field a team next week then

A thought rattling around in my head; is it really fair of Roos to say the players are just 'waiting to be beaten' when he is enforcing a game plan that patently rejects trying to kick a winning score?

You can call it rope-a-dope or trying to stop the game getting away from them early, but fundamentally it is an attitude of 'let's try not to fall behind too far'.

"Melbournised" makes it seem half-okay.

He's being "Melbourned". I prefer that word.

Bernie Vince is now officially "Melbourned". Did he butcher the ball like that at Adelaide? One of our worst offenders in the second-half of the year.

Bernie will play better once his 'butchered' hair cut grows out

A thought rattling around in my head; is it really fair of Roos to say the players are just 'waiting to be beaten' when he is enforcing a game plan that patently rejects trying to kick a winning score?

You can call it rope-a-dope or trying to stop the game getting away from them early, but fundamentally it is an attitude of 'let's try not to fall behind too far'.

I suppose Roosy would counter that by saying the only reason we can't kick goals is because we can't create chains of good disposal. When you're incapable of hanpassing it 5 metres to a teammate, how are you supposed to kick a winning score?

I suppose Roosy would counter that by saying the only reason we can't kick goals is because we can't create chains of good disposal. When you're incapable of hanpassing it 5 metres to a teammate, how are you supposed to kick a winning score?

Or when you miss from 10 metres

A thought rattling around in my head; is it really fair of Roos to say the players are just 'waiting to be beaten' when he is enforcing a game plan that patently rejects trying to kick a winning score?

You can call it rope-a-dope or trying to stop the game getting away from them early, but fundamentally it is an attitude of 'let's try not to fall behind too far'.

No game plan can allow for players that can't or won't make the right decisions. The game could have been over at 3 qtr time, we had easy opportunities that should have put us 4-5 goals up, but no our players took the wrong option and worse still couldn't execute so when the ball gets turned over we are exposed.

The lack of skill and poor decision making, the missed targets by hand and foot I just sat there is pure disbelief that players at this level couldn't execute very very basic kicks and hand balls.

At least half our list is just emotionally shell shocked.

They cannot execute basic skills under real pressure.

Time to go.