GOODBYE MR. CHIP FRAWLEY

[chook fowler 19,761]

  On 01/09/2014 at 04:00, Deez said:

I wonder what frawleys reaction was to dawes's costume.

I hope it would be embarrassment but I doubt it.

[Ron Burgundy 8,588]

  On 31/08/2014 at 11:49, dazzledavey36 said:

Mentioned this before but last year I mentioned I played with Frawleys mate who was traveling up every weekend. He was already talking to Gold Coast and Hawthorn back then.

Was always going to go as early asnlast year.

Doesn't sound very loyal ...

[baysidedave 246]

  On 01/09/2014 at 10:09, dees189227 said:

interesting to see he needs a few weeks., What a few weeks until hawthorn geelong or sydney bow out of finals and they talk to you.

Thats exactly what it is, he is waiting for his club to finish playing and then he's gone.

[baysidedave 246]

  On 01/09/2014 at 11:28, corowa said:

I'm beginning to think that the possibility of immediate success might be as much of a lure as big salary.

Whatever it is, 'top' clubs continue to become stronger while the lesser lights flounder.

Look at Hawthorn in recent years. Key backs were missing so they 'recruit' Gibson and Lake. They were poor in the ruck division they get Hale and McEvoy.

They had no early draft selections but they have heaps of appeal to players at unsuccessful clubs.

In the mean time we'll get all excited about 3rd grade rejects from other clubs.

The AFL needs to fix this up before we become a two tier competition that few of us from 'weaker' clubs will attend.

It will get worse until AFL put a stop to it, basically what needs to happen is the top 6 clubs each year should not be allowed to pick up players from free agancy

[McQueen 17,867]

Well after watching On The Couch and seeing Chris Scott fumble around with questions about Frawley playing for Geelong I'm convinced Chip will be heading down the Princes Highway. Scott has Frawley so much on his mind he even named him (and then quickly corrected himself) as a possible swingman that plays forward.

It might've been an honest mistake but I doubt it.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Yeah, of course that melodramatic ninkumpoop would just copy Roos' master stroke of turning Frawley into a swingman.

[whatwhat say what 23,795]

Perhaps his now proven ability to play forward might've actually increased his value?

On the presumption that that's where he goes, Geelong next year will have Rivers and Lonergan as dedicated defenders with Taylor and Frawley both capable of playing either end as support for them or Hawkins and Vardy (presuming he's recovered from his knee op) up front, not to mention Walker, Kersten and other youngsters. Two of their six best key position players brought in from one other club - ours.

It's an embarrassment of riches.

If Hawks get him they have Gibson as a key def, Roughhead as a key fwd, and the likes of Lake, Spangher, Schoenmakers and potentially Frawley all capable of playing either end, plus whatever youngsters. So four out of six brought in.

We will have Dunn, McDonald, Garland, Pedersen, Dawes and hopefully Hogan as KPPs, with not much else in support (Georgiou? Fitzpatrick?). So two imports.

It's no wonder we are miles behind!

Edit: added Pedo

[Jara 1,153]

  On 01/09/2014 at 11:31, Forest Demon said:

Those clubs who were lucky enough to be up the top of their cycles when FA came in are laughing all the way to the finals every year. Make no mistake, if FA came in when Hawthorn or Geelong were a basket case, which wasn't that long ago remember, they would be floundering down the bottom for the foreseeable future. It is a vicious cycle, and we are going to have to d an amazing job to break it.

So true. Great post. It's not just free agency, though, it's everything about the creeping corporatization of the game ( ie rigged fixture, expansion clubs)

It all supports the clubs who were big when it came in (I suppose if it had happened fifty years ago, we would have been gloating)

I'm in complete despair about this. Just see no hope of us ever winning a flag. We'll be like the Bulldogs.

Smirking bas&$!s from the big clubs love to see us down there, and have got absolutely no incentive to do anything about it. "Equalisation" is a myth, a bone tossed to the dog so that it doesn't roll over and die. All we provide is cannon fodder. If by chance we do ever get a decent player, he'll be off to Hawthorn etc by the time he's at his peak. Every one of our free agents have left us (think I'm right there) The players are mostly morons who don't understand the passion of those of us who are supporters.

Sorry for such a bitter post. Maybe out of bed on the wrong side this morning.

Footy's like the wider society; an accelerating division between the haves and the have-nots (as exemplified by the current morons in charge in Canberra - if you're rich, you're laughing, if you aren't, you're stuffed)

[beelzebub 23,392]

  On 01/09/2014 at 13:51, McQueen said:

Well after watching On The Couch and seeing Chris Scott fumble around with questions about Frawley playing for Geelong I'm convinced Chip will be heading down the Princes Highway. Scott has Frawley so much on his mind he even named him (and then quickly corrected himself) as a possible swingman that plays forward.

It might've been an honest mistake but I doubt it.

Funny how all this ties in with what a local ( down there told me ages ago ). Still , he might go elsewhere but it seems to be Hello Kitty doesnt it. Its not the money either as It was suggested to me about 2-2.5 over 4 with a kicker for 5 , with conditions. Geelong arent totally stupid. Nothing Ive seen to date seems to dispell this but , again, he may go anywhere but I really dont think its so much about money. The media has made it an auction but dont think it ever was. He just wants out.. And quite frankly id hold the door open for him and belt him with it on the way out. Please.. anyone, dont offer up that he's been ( whatever ) tripe.

I was told a little story quite a few years back that James thinks hes pretty good, you know AA and all that....and let it get to him a bit as hes never replicated it.

Its been suggested that Frawley still represents the malaise that palls this club. I tend to agree. he seemed to play to a level he thought Ok not keep going and be what he was fleetingly and could have been always.

Paul has been very kind in the public arena ( so has PJ ) but i seriously doubt either really harbour much desire to keep him.

[Ethan Tremblay 31,379]

  On 01/09/2014 at 22:03, Jara said:

So true. Great post. It's not just free agency, though, it's everything about the creeping corporatization of the game ( ie rigged fixture, expansion clubs)

It all supports the clubs who were big when it came in (I suppose if it had happened fifty years ago, we would have been gloating)

I'm in complete despair about this. Just see no hope of us ever winning a flag. We'll be like the Bulldogs.

Smirking bas&$!s from the big clubs love to see us down there, and have got absolutely no incentive to do anything about it. "Equalisation" is a myth, a bone tossed to the dog so that it doesn't roll over and die. All we provide is cannon fodder. If by chance we do ever get a decent player, he'll be off to Hawthorn etc by the time he's at his peak. Every one of our free agents have left us (think I'm right there) The players are mostly morons who don't understand the passion of those of us who are supporters.

Sorry for such a bitter post. Maybe out of bed on the wrong side this morning.

Footy's like the wider society; an accelerating division between the haves and the have-nots (as exemplified by the current morons in charge in Canberra - if you're rich, you're laughing, if you aren't, you're stuffed)

FA isn't going anywhere, deal with it. I'm glad they're smirking, we'll wipe it off their faces. Life isn't fair and even, suck it up.

Some people work hard to get where they are, judging by your political view and post, hand outs and a free ride is your preferred option.

[beelzebub 23,392]

  On 01/09/2014 at 22:16, Ethan Tremblay said:

FA isn't going anywhere, deal with it. I'm glad they're smirking, we'll wipe it off their faces.

Some people work hard to get where they are, judging by your political view and post, hand outs and a free ride is your preferred option.

Surely the tenet and foundation for most ( western ideologies and some eastern ) is that there ought to be a fairness as a given and an equally opportunity to rise but that its down to the individual to assert that privilege ( some may cal a right ) . But given the general acknowledgement that equalisation is actually required before all else then surely there IS something fundamentally wrong with the current model and how it plays out in such things as FA etc.

I dont think anyone wants a free ride here, but like the Stall Gift....its handicapped to make it a race, we need a similar attitude to the league. Its a one sided affair currently.

[rjay 25,419]

  On 01/09/2014 at 21:51, DemonAndrew said:

Perhaps his now proven ability to play forward might've actually increased his value?

On the presumption that that's where he goes, Geelong next year will have Rivers and Lonergan as dedicated defenders with Taylor and Frawley both capable of playing either end as support for them or Hawkins and Vardy (presuming he's recovered from his knee op) up front, not to mention Walker, Kersten and other youngsters. Two of their six best key position players brought in from one other club - ours.

It's an embarrassment of riches.

If Hawks get him they have Gibson as a key def, Roughhead as a key fwd, and the likes of Lake, Spangher, Schoenmakers and potentially Frawley all capable of playing either end, plus whatever youngsters. So four out of six brought in.

We will have Dunn, McDonald, Garland, Dawes and hopefully Hogan as KPPs, with not much else in support (Georgiou? Fitzpatrick?). So one import.

It's no wonder we are miles behind!

I think he's proven this year that he isn't a forwards a....

They want him as a defender so they have the option of Taylor forward and as coverage for Lonegan and Rivers who are coming to the end.

[praha 11,267]

  On 01/09/2014 at 11:28, corowa said:

I'm beginning to think that the possibility of immediate success might be as much of a lure as big salary.

Whatever it is, 'top' clubs continue to become stronger while the lesser lights flounder.

Look at Hawthorn in recent years. Key backs were missing so they 'recruit' Gibson and Lake. They were poor in the ruck division they get Hale and McEvoy.

They had no early draft selections but they have heaps of appeal to players at unsuccessful clubs.

In the mean time we'll get all excited about 3rd grade rejects from other clubs.

The AFL needs to fix this up before we become a two tier competition that few of us from 'weaker' clubs will attend.

Hawthorn is reaping the benefits of building a great culture and drafting superbly in the mid-00s. How exactly to you suggest the AFL "fix" up clubs from performing well in areas they're *obliged* to perform well in to succeed? Hawthorn was not a "big" club in 2004 when they drafted Franklin and Roughhead, arguably the beginning of their rise.

We're blaming FA for all the top clubs getting the good free agents, but FA is not the problem: Melbourne's ineptness is.

Stop trying to handball the blame off to other clubs. Melbourne has the same access to the same talent pool, is under the same salary cap, plays in the same city, and plays at the MCG. If you can't attract free agents, that's not the system's or the AFL's fault: it's the clubs.

You won't be asking the AFL to "fix" the system when Melbourne signs a good player, will you?

[beelzebub 23,392]

I dont think anyone is saying FA is the only culprit. But the way its panning out as opposed to any misguided and/or naive ideal is a concern. Thats a plain and simple reality I would suggest

[mdemonski2 403]

  On 01/09/2014 at 22:16, Ethan Tremblay said:

FA isn't going anywhere, deal with it. I'm glad they're smirking, we'll wipe it off their faces. Life isn't fair and even, suck it up.

Some people work hard to get where they are, judging by your political view and post, hand outs and a free ride is your preferred option.

Agree with the need to work our butts off to get out of our current malaise but I would argue that all teams should start from the same fair base.

It won't matter how hard we work currently due to the inherent disadvantages that the lower sides face. It is no coincidence that clubs like the dogs and saints are with us towards the bottom of the ladder.

[rjay 25,419]

  On 01/09/2014 at 22:24, praha said:

Hawthorn is reaping the benefits of building a great culture and drafting superbly in the mid-00s. How exactly to you suggest the AFL "fix" up clubs from performing well in areas they're *obliged* to perform well in to succeed? Hawthorn was not a "big" club in 2004 when they drafted Franklin and Roughhead, arguably the beginning of their rise.

We're blaming FA for all the top clubs getting the good free agents, but FA is not the problem: Melbourne's ineptness is.

Stop trying to handball the blame off to other clubs. Melbourne has the same access to the same talent pool, is under the same salary cap, plays in the same city, and plays at the MCG. If you can't attract free agents, that's not the system's or the AFL's fault: it's the clubs.

You won't be asking the AFL to "fix" the system when Melbourne signs a good player, will you?

Now there's the problem, it didn't. GWS and GC had a monopoly over the talent pool and we only got scraps.

Agree though that it's a position of our own making. We should have been well on our way by the time the new clubs effected our list.

[nutbean 8,838]

Just need to clarify one point "players" don't talk to opposition clubs. Their managers do. That way there is always deniability. A player can mumble he is loyal and loving the club and a good manager will be out talking to clubs so he can advice his client appropriately. The only time a player may get involved is at the very end when he may meet the coaches and/or the leadership group.

So when people are suggesting that "Frawley" talked to other clubs months ago - it is just a fallacy - to suggest that his manager was out talking to clubs for months is probably right on the money.

The reason that the Ross Lyon to Freo caused such a ruckus was he went outside his management and got his lawyer to broker the deal.

Doesn't make Frawley's claim of being loyal any better though.

I fully understand players wanting to play for successful clubs and I fully love players that resist the temptation to bail when the going is tough and try and get their current clubs successful.

[rjay 25,419]

  On 01/09/2014 at 22:47, nutbean said:

Just need to clarify one point "players" don't talk to opposition clubs. Their managers do. That way there is always deniability. A player can mumble he is loyal and loving the club and a good manager will be out talking to clubs so he can advice his client appropriately. The only time a player may get involved is at the very end when he may meet the coaches and/or the leadership group.

So when people are suggesting that "Frawley" talked to other clubs months ago - it is just a fallacy - to suggest that his manager was out talking to clubs for months is probably right on the money.

The reason that the Ross Lyon to Freo caused such a ruckus was he went outside his management and got his lawyer to broker the deal.

Doesn't make Frawley's claim of being loyal any better though.

I fully understand players wanting to play for successful clubs and I fully love players that resist the temptation to bail when the going is tough and try and get their current clubs successful.

Players are not supposed to talk to opposition clubs, doesn't mean they don't 'nut'.

[jackaub 1,402]

“I really don’t know to be honest. James has been terrific. He’s been engaged in the group and there have been no signs from me that he’s put the cue in the rack,” he said.(Roos Quote)

Is this just being politically correct or did he really mean it? Frawley either put the cue in the rack or played mindless stupid football for the year and showed that he really isnt AA material after all.

[beelzebub 23,392]

  On 01/09/2014 at 22:47, nutbean said:

Just need to clarify one point "players" don't talk to opposition clubs. Their managers do. That way there is always deniability.

No, intelligent and crafty ones dont !!!

[jnrmac 20,338]

  On 01/09/2014 at 02:57, rjay said:

I agree that they didn't think it through, I don't think they were held over a barrel. That's a convenient excuse.

The reasoning for FA was supposedly to give players not getting a game the opportunity to move clubs. Surely they could see what was really going to happen.

This system need to be revised and your top 4 clubs idea has some merit although I think the entire system needs an overhaul and quickly. I fear a lot of damage has already been done.

Daniel Cross is exactly the type of player or reason FA was brought in. Ryan O'Keefe as well. Unfortunately you can't restrict it to these types.

The big problem is that the AFL know in a court of law the restraint of trade argument would win every day of the week so their hands really are tied.

[nutbean 8,838]

  On 01/09/2014 at 22:53, rjay said:

Players are not supposed to talk to opposition clubs, doesn't mean they don't 'nut'.

I talked to a player manager ( albeit a small time with only a couple of wannabe's on the books) and he amused me with the stories. He said that players are bashed by managers from day one - say nothing and do nothing - push everything back to the manager. He said that is basically the way it happens. He suggested that managers do take direction from player ( I really want to stay, I really want to go) but he said without exception all managers will test the waters on opposition clubs interest and a players worth even if the player is adamant he wants to stay at the club just so the manager has a "second quote" on the players worth.

He said the only true thing players say in the front of the camera is " I just leave this stuff to my manager".

In Frawleys case I am sure his management ( knowing what a Rhodes scholar he is ) would have severely cautioned him about talking to any clubs.

[Matt Demon 1,597]

  On 01/09/2014 at 11:31, Forest Demon said:

Those clubs who were lucky enough to be up the top of their cycles when FA came in are laughing all the way to the finals every year. Make no mistake, if FA came in when Hawthorn or Geelong were a basket case, which wasn't that long ago remember, they would be floundering down the bottom for the foreseeable future. It is a vicious cycle, and we are going to have to d an amazing job to break it.

Ontop of FA coming in the AFL decided to bring in two expansion teams and take all the young talent. What hope did the clubs down the bottom have?

[rjay 25,419]

  On 01/09/2014 at 23:17, nutbean said:

I talked to a player manager ( albeit a small time with only a couple of wannabe's on the books) and he amused me with the stories. He said that players are bashed by managers from day one - say nothing and do nothing - push everything back to the manager. He said that is basically the way it happens. He suggested that managers do take direction from player ( I really want to stay, I really want to go) but he said without exception all managers will test the waters on opposition clubs interest and a players worth even if the player is adamant he wants to stay at the club just so the manager has a "second quote" on the players worth.

He said the only true thing players say in the front of the camera is " I just leave this stuff to my manager".

In Frawleys case I am sure his management ( knowing what a Rhodes scholar he is ) would have severely cautioned him about talking to any clubs.

I'm sure that's the way it's supposed to work but as you say Frawley being a Rhodes scholar then anything is possible. If a deal has already been done as many think then I would believe it highly unlikely that the club hasn't talked to the player.

[nutbean 8,838]

  On 01/09/2014 at 23:32, rjay said:

I'm sure that's the way it's supposed to work but as you say Frawley being a Rhodes scholar then anything is possible. If a deal has already been done as many think then I would believe it highly unlikely that the club hasn't talked to the player.

Agreed - the talk is he has met with the leadership group.