Paul Roos on AFL360

[Binmans PA 26,766]

Here we go again, the weekly "Watts apologists" posts. He's been worse than shocking the last two weeks and any effort to say otherwise just shows people either have short memories or they didn't watch the games. He doesn't need to be banished for all time but he does need a decent run at Casey (at least 4-6 weeks) until the "non-negotiables" are ingrained into him. You can't get away with a complete & utter lack of intensity and attack on the contest in senior footy.

Of course Roos is going to come out and bat for him/make excuses he's not a [censored] like Neeld who publicly pots his players. Just because he says one thing publicly do you really think he doesn't see what we all see and have different thoughts privately?

I wouldn't consider myself a Watts apologist. On Game Day, his seeming lack of desire (translation=laconic style) is infuriating, but once the game is over, I can see that clearly Watts needs a different style of man-management. We've seen he doesn't respond to being dropped to the 2's. If we want to get anything out of him, we have to keep pursuing him as an AFL player - that is to say, continued game time at AFL intensity. Roos will keep playing him for the near future.

The one off 20m sprint time means nothing in todays football, it is all about your cruising speed, what speed you can maintain for long periods and extended runs. You aren't running 20m anymore to get the football it sometimes could be a 100m lead heading back to goals. To me Jack is slow, he can't maintain a good top speed for long enough. He can do the Km's but not at a high speed. Look at Lewis Jetta and even our JKH they can maintain their speed for long surging runs, Watts just can't.

See, I don't rate JKH's speed at all. I think it's his biggest weakness to this stage. I hope he has the footy smarts to combat this.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Sir, sir, sir, me me.......Goddard, Hawkins, Gibbs the list is endless

I'll give you Gibbs, but his progression is furlong ahead of our JW.

[dee-luded 2,958]

There is a certain love fest going on between Bomber and Roosy.

Two top coaches and no disagreeable discussions between the two.

Do you think (forgetting Watts) at this stage, that if Hird goes back to Bummer land,

Bomber may be the heir apparent to Roosy?

On Foxtel they think alike, maybe too much alike.

Would you like bomber as the next coach?

/

Roos was always my first choice back about 3 Yrs ago, but didn't realise his situation with family at school etc.

Bomba & Lethal were my next preferred options, to coach us out of our hell hole.

[Gipsy Danger 1,067]

Number 1 draft picks? The point of nominating the last 5 years is that the "science' of draft selection has come a long way since the early 2000's. By and large the number 1 draft picks are playing consistent and good footy. Many of them having to leave home to do it. Now there's 'maturity' for ya.

Jonathan Patton is only in his 3rd year, has already missed a year with an ACL but I'd still take him over Watts right now.

David Swallow is in his 4th year and id take him ahead of our whole midfield right now.

Watts is in his 6th year and he still gets babied like it is his second. If he aint gonna have a crack now when will he?

[rpfc 27,693]

I'll give you Gibbs, but his progression is furlong ahead of our JW.

I wish you had St Kilda supporting friends and their opinion of a 23 year old Brendan Goddard...

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

I wouldn't consider myself a Watts apologist. On Game Day, his seeming lack of desire (translation=laconic style) is infuriating, but once the game is over, I can see that clearly Watts needs a different style of man-management. We've seen he doesn't respond to being dropped to the 2's. If we want to get anything out of him, we have to keep pursuing him as an AFL player - that is to say, continued game time at AFL intensity. Roos will keep playing him for the near future.

See, I don't rate JKH's speed at all. I think it's his biggest weakness to this stage. I hope he has the footy smarts to combat this.

No Speed??

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

I wish you had St Kilda supporting friends and their opinion of a 23 year old Brendan Goddard...

I do and they love him still. Equally, I have Carlton friends who still rue the day they missed him in the draft, due to their salary cap breaches under pig's arse's stewardship.

[dee-luded 2,958]

None are so blind as those that refuse to see.

All I'm doing is raising another possibility for discussion.

I think emotional maturity plays a part in his output, and I don't think maturity is a consciously made decision.

It's not the only thing that affects his output, but it plays a serious part.

It also probably depends on what you subjectively view "output" to mean, in this regard.

we all have differing levels of emotional maturity & we all have our weak points in it that can break, or be less mature in those particular areas. In some ways we can all be mature & together, but there are always areas where we are like kids. no matter how well hidden.

chinks in armour

emotional subjects will always bring about the chinks, even IF the warriors out there, don't post their thoughts when feeling chinked. they still have them, although hidden. less honest.

[nutbean 8,837]

My conflict is when he is called a lazy footballer.

I classify laziness as a chosen behavior.

I don't think JW chooses to be lazy.

I think his attack on the ball ( or lack thereof) is instinctive. I think it is instinctive in the same the way as a Dawes doesn't choose to crash a pack or sprint after defenders or make the ball his single focus - he does it on autopilot.

Almost anything can be trained but I just wonder how ingrained this instinctive non chosen behavior is.

[Sir Why You Little 35,363]

It is up to Jack to engage the gears now.

He has to challenge himself to take the game on when fatigue has set in.

Jack has never been challenged so i wonder if he knows how to do it.

At school he dominated in a canter.

It is a shame he didn't play at Casey for one maybe two seasons.

He missed all that hardening up.

He must be challenged or he won't "wake up"

[nutbean 8,837]

In the last 5 years, can you name one?

Tom Hawkins for one.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Tom Hawkins for one.

So after 5 years in the system, Tomahawk has not progressed to elite status?

edit: err, Hawkins was not a number 1 draft pick

Edited April 29, 2014 by iv'a worn smith

[nutbean 8,837]

Sir, sir, sir, me me.......Goddard, Hawkins, Gibbs the list is endless

Liam Jones aged 23 is going through the same thing at the Bullies

[Binmans PA 26,766]

No Speed??

I just haven't seen his explosiveness in a chase down. Obviously, he had that great chase down on Cripps against Carlton, but that's because Cripps was adjusting to the pace of his first game.

[TGR 1,367]

No Speed??

His fast. He aint blistering.

He came on fresh in that Richmond game, and Rance basically got him after a 10 metre start.

But he makes up with it, as he has more courage, and aint scared inside.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Liam Jones aged 23 is going through the same thing at the Bullies

LIam Jones was not a number 1 draft pick

[Sir Why You Little 35,363]

LIam Jones was not a number 1 draft pick

yep. No comparison at all

[DeeZee 6,913]

What we really should be doing is changing the forum name from Demonland to Wattsland

[nutbean 8,837]

So after 5 years in the system, Tomahawk has not progressed to elite status?

edit: err, Hawkins was not a number 1 draft pick

Elite ahhh no...

But has been in the system 2 more years than Watts. His breakout year was 2012.

As to your edit - No one said anything about comparing number one draft pick ( and JW didnt pick himself as no 1) - but again - go back to your history of the day - widely suggested that if Hawkins had not be a F/S pick he would have gone first round.

Michael Hurley, from the same draft came on quickly but has been just OK since - he has actually gone progressively backwards since his first couple of seasons. Vickery was number 8 in that draft - ewww.

I am no defender of Watts but you made the statement asking about other kids who have taken this long to come on.

[nutbean 8,837]

LIam Jones was not a number 1 draft pick

yep. No comparison at all

We are talking about kids taking time to come on.

I agree that picks 53 like Tommy Mac are speculative but first and second round draft picks are comparable.

[Sir Why You Little 35,363]

Elite ahhh no...

But has been in the system 2 more years than Watts. His breakout year was 2012.

I would call Hawkins an elite forward absolutely. Took him a while yes.

His breakout game was the 2011 GF, not a bad place to do it. His name with Lingy is all over that cup.

[nutbean 8,837]

No Speed??

Interesting you should post that to prove your point.

Watch through it again and fairly close to the beginning it has a graph on his athletic ability and it rated his speed as average.

I think he has nice first 5 metres and really good evasive skills but I don't think he is lightning quick.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

We are talking about kids taking time to come on.

I agree that picks 53 like Tommy Mac are speculative but first and second round draft picks are comparable.

My original post which initiated this conversation related to JW being a number 1 draft pick, in the system for 5 years and is now 23. Of course there are kids lower in the pecking order that have not come on and goodness knows we have had our fair share of them, but JW was chosen at number one, at a time when the 'science' of drafting was far more advanced than in the preceding decade.

As for saying Jack didn't pick himself as number 1 is such a perverse twisting of logic. JW was always touted as a number 1 pick. It was between him and Nic Nat. These kids are schooled very well on the intricacies of the draft process and the expectation placed on them, as they come through an elite system.

Edited April 29, 2014 by iv'a worn smith

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Interesting you should post that to prove your point.

Watch through it again and fairly close to the beginning it has a graph on his athletic ability and it rated his speed as average.

I think he has nice first 5 metres and really good evasive skills but I don't think he is lightning quick.

He'll do me.

[Satyriconhome 10,094]

Number 1 draft picks? The point of nominating the last 5 years is that the "science' of draft selection has come a long way since the early 2000's. By and large the number 1 draft picks are playing consistent and good footy. Many of them having to leave home to do it. Now there's 'maturity' for ya.

I would give you maybe Swallow, Patton has Cameron stood next to him, so if he can't take on at the minimum the 2nd best defender and kick a couple with his size then?, Scully is average, Kreuzer? Gibbs, in and out of form worse like Watts, goes missing in games....so no the nr 1 draft picks are not exactly setting the footy world on fire