POST MATCH DISCUSSION

[Dr. Gonzo 24,187]

Spot on. Many times tonight we got the ball, looked up and had no tall target to kick to. Hurt us big time.

This is a cut and paste of what I wrote on BF;

To be honest I thought we were out coached tonight and that along with our inaccuracy for goal cost us the win.

For starters leaving an injured McDonald on Riewoldt was a poor move but even when he was off and Frawley was on Riewoldt Frawley didn't do much better really.

Secondly the Saints had a loose man dropped back in their defensive 50 all night (generally Roberton) and often had two guys dropped back there for instance when there was a stoppage along the centreline. This meant that even when we won the clearance we ended up bombing to an unmanned Saints player, an outnumbered Melbourne player or going back into traffic with handballs and getting ourselves into trouble while being forced backwards. We lacked the get out of jail option having Dawes or Hogan (I've written off Clark for now) up there would have provided and after Fitzpatrick went off we had no one we could bomb long to and know they would create a contest and crash the packs. We should have manned up the loose player behind the ball so that at least we would have been able to kick long to a 2-2 or 3-3 contest when under pressure coming out of a clearance.

The fact that we didn't fed into the second problem which was our inaccuracy. Because the Saints had the loose man set up and we had no key forwards who could crash through them we had to try and work the ball forward through handball or chip kicks around the flanks meaning a lot of our shots at goal were coming from around or just outside the 50. We had a number of near misses including a couple of Vince posters early which really cost us.

I was disappointed we didn't dominate the centre more considering the Saints outs but considering Spencer was our lone ruckman and the difficulty our kids had finding targets up forward it's probably understandable. The Saints were able to pressure us around the contest due to our lack of options and when we did kick long Roberton or the loose Saints player marked and switched quickly to an open Saints forward line as all our players had been running forward and were caught out of position. The Saints forward line was open and Riewoldt, Stanley etc were able to run into space and really hurt us on the rebound.

Overall it was disappointing but I'll wait and see how we go once we can get Dawes, Hogan, Gawn/Jamar and Viney back to straighten us up and give us some more assistance at the ruck contests before slitting my wrists. It's going to be another long year but if we can mimic what the Dogs did last year (poor first half of the season but come home strong with some positive signs for 2015) I think that's the best we can hope for at this stage. I'm not looking forward to next week vs West Coast but I'll be there...

[DemonOX 8,783]

On a positive note Roos didn't mention in his presser "we didn't c that coming"!!!

We MFC supporters are a resilient bunch and anyone who gives it to us can GGF.

[sue 9,096]

What a difference winning or losing makes.

If we had won (which may have happened if we had kicked straight, didn't lose Fitz and most importantly lose McDonald keeping Riewolt in line at a critical time) there would be far less hand-wringing about the mid-field not being on top of the newbies of St Kilda, poor individual efforts and things that went wrong. There would be discussion of it sure and of other deficiencies, but less hand-wringing.

Instead we'd be focussing on the amazing skills of Watts and how he looks like a potential superstar now.

Those who react like those gutted 12 year old kids are showing the same level of maturity. We cannot expect wins as depressing as that is, we are looking for improvement, who will cut it in the longer term and who won't. I saw a bit of both last night. But whatever happens there won't be linear improvement for the team or individuals, there will be ups and downs. We won't know until well into the season if we are on the right rack. No point in spitting the dummy at round 1.

[Tyson_Viney_Toumpas 269]

It's the white guernseys...

[Dee Dee 1,105]

StKilda has been touted as the easy beats all off season.

And as reported it got to them and it made them angry and determined to show the press the pundits and the public at large just how wrong they were.

And I bet their change room was plastered with the negative newspaper articles.

Melbourne on the other hand were expected to win and to win quite comfortably.

StKilda's determination and application from about the 20 minute mark of the 1st quarter to the final siren was clearly palpable to this spectator high up in the stand.

They won the mind game!

They were determined to "stick it up their critics" and they did!

[NATA 10]

Went to the game, very dissapointing.

I think people are being a bit hard on Spencer - had alot of hit outs, probably needed to take more marks around the ground. He will get better.

There is nobody better. Jamar is done , Clarke obviously no chance , King too young , Gawn is all hype

poor kicking cost us the game and there is nothing else to it.

Biggest dissapointments last night were Howe & McDonald (before he got injured)

I hardly nioticed Howe at all last night, not sure of his stats but it couldnt have been good.

I cringe every time Tom McDonald gets the footy. He is a poor desicion maker and forever turns it over.

That one he kicked on the full early on made my blood boil.

Its been an issue with him for a good 2 years now.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,187]

Went to the game, very dissapointing.

I think people are being a bit hard on Spencer - had alot of hit outs, probably needed to take more marks around the ground. He will get better.

There is nobody better. Jamar is done , Clarke obviously no chance , King too young , Gawn is all hype

poor kicking cost us the game and there is nothing else to it.

Biggest dissapointments last night were Howe & McDonald (before he got injured)

I hardly nioticed Howe at all last night, not sure of his stats but it couldnt have been good.

I cringe every time Tom McDonald gets the footy. He is a poor desicion maker and forever turns it over.

That one he kicked on the full early on made my blood boil.

Its been an issue with him for a good 2 years now.

I agree with you except about Spencer he was very poor last night. Won the hit outs but where did they go? Not sure of the full time stats but at half time we led the bit outs 16-11 but were behind in hit outs to advantage 1-5.

[NATA 10]

I agree with you except about Spencer he was very poor last night. Won the hit outs but where did they go? Not sure of the full time stats but at half time we led the bit outs 16-11 but were behind in hit outs to advantage 1-5.

You make a good point.

It just seemed too easy to get a clearance against us. Looks like nothing has changed there. Although it isnt all Spencer's doing.

[Thehardtackler 785]

Lazy! Lazy! Lazy! There were too many passengers in the Melbourne team last night. Some if the players simply looked unfit and there are some players who just don't understand what the word 'aggression' means. It is time to shape up or ship out for some of our list. I don't care if players like Frawley go because a young player with some passion and belief would offer us more. Pedersen was woeful for most of the game. Daniel Cross was too quiet and needs to get into the game.Bernie Vince should be extracting the ball in the centre to help Jones rather than being thrown forward. Watts and Matt Jones were two of the best. Jack Viney's example was a big loss tonight and we will be better for him in the team. Gawn has to play forward and dare I say it but we need Jamar back. We will probably be murdered by West Coast next week, especially if our coaches allow injured players like McDonald remain on the ground during matches. If you clapped the team up the tunnel at the end last night then go and find another club to support because your affirmation of that performance is part of the reason our culture of failure persists.

[Young Dee 1,303]

Went to the game, very dissapointing.

I think people are being a bit hard on Spencer - had alot of hit outs, probably needed to take more marks around the ground. He will get better.

There is nobody better. Jamar is done , Clarke obviously no chance , King too young , Gawn is all hype

poor kicking cost us the game and there is nothing else to it.

Biggest dissapointments last night were Howe & McDonald (before he got injured)

I hardly nioticed Howe at all last night, not sure of his stats but it couldnt have been good.

I cringe every time Tom McDonald gets the footy. He is a poor desicion maker and forever turns it over.

That one he kicked on the full early on made my blood boil.

Its been an issue with him for a good 2 years now.

I can't remember Spencer having 1 clear tap to advantage. I think he believes that all he has to do is run and jump into the opposition.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,218]

I agree with you except about Spencer he was very poor last night. Won the hit outs but where did they go? Not sure of the full time stats but at half time we led the bit outs 16-11 but were behind in hit outs to advantage 1-5.

A couple of points Doctor. I thought Spencer's effort was very good. With Fitzy gone he had to do a lot of work. His tap work is improving and, remember, Jamar got away with tapping out to his toes for about three years.

[dees189227 12,373]

on a positive when the ladders comes out tomorrow we will be in the highest position we will had been in years. We will sit above sydney, collingwood, richmond and carlton and nth

Edited March 22, 2014 by dees189227

[Redleg 40,839]

Usual responses here.

Until we have a forward line we won't win games of footy. Forget Clark - no Dawes, Hogan and Fitzy hurts us big time with the domino effect. With those three there it frees up a Howe to dominate the flanks rather than get smashed by a taller, stronger player. We can still add Garland, Viney and Gawn to the mix on top of that, and once we do we will look much better.

Agree. The fact that we had no forwards changed our whole style. We stopped when we got the ball because there was no one up forward and then we turned it over under the pressure.

I think we made a huge blunder in selection as well. Picking Gawn and Blease would have given us a target up forward and some pace on the forward line to break up the Saints defence. It would have straightened us up. IMO we would have won the game with one winning key forward on the night. The injuries to Fitz and Tom just killed any chance.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,187]

A couple of points Doctor. I thought Spencer's effort was very good. With Fitzy gone he had to do a lot of work. His tap work is improving and, remember, Jamar got away with tapping out to his toes for about three years.

Spencer was up against it no doubt and his effort may have been good but he's just not good enough. Not his fault that's just the way it is.

Jamar, don't get me started on Jamar. Shouldn't be on the list anymore but some nuffy thought it was a good idea to give him a 3 year contract. Pedersen too. And McKenzie. Seriously did they think rival clubs were really going to swoop and take away this gold mine of talent?

[jnrmac 20,055]

We kicked 10 points in a row including two posters from Vince in the 1st quarter.

They tried hard all night which I haven't seen for some time from a Melbourne team.

Tyson got caught a few times and turned it over about three more.

Spencer tried hard but don't think he tapped it to our advantage once. And around the ground was next to useless.

Dunn showed a lot. Watts showed a lot but fitness wasn't there in the end. Jones N and M were both pretty good.

Vince is a great get. Cross is a workhorse.

Turnovers killed us all night.

Take where we finished last year, look at our effort - we have improved. Add some first choice players, get rid of some of the NQRs and there is something to be liked.

But geez we have a long way to go.

Edited March 22, 2014 by jnrmac

[Dr. Gonzo 24,187]

Agree. The fact that we had no forwards changed our whole style. We stopped when we got the ball because there was no one up forward and then we turned it over under the pressure.

Allowing them the loose man in defense is what killed us. I have no idea why Roos refused to man him up.

[Tatu 416]

I said early in the week i felt it was our game to lose, and after watching the game i still don't feel as though we were outplayed, we have improved so much but it's impossible to win games if you don't kick straight, skill errors can be forgiven, missing the amount of shots we did tonight is the reason we aren't singing the song right now.

very happy with how a few of our boys played, Jack Watts looked like a Superstar, Vince is a huge pickup, Toumpas and Trengove were impressive, Nathan Jones looks even better if that was possible.

i thought we were actually playing better then the saints... In the last we had Byrnes playing as our Key forward...lol... Watching the ball rebounding out of our forward line, after all the hard work the boys put in to get it there.. Was the most disappointing part... Match day injuries killed us...

[Redleg 40,839]

JKH ran around like a madman but he couldn't get much of it, he's not supposed to be doing that he should be at the feet of the tall forwards crumbling the ball.

What tall forwards?

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Nate Jones gives his absolute all. Amazing player. Watts looked good, his foot skills and vision are what we need more of. I think Tyson will be better for the run, remember the guy is very young and has barely played a handful of AFL games. Got caught looking up with the ball a couple of times. Not enough talk? Toumpas did some nice things, ran out of legs easily. Pedo was lost and ineffective. At one stage in the last we had 5 small forwards, Toump at full fwd. Spencil did well in the ruck, but struggles around the ground especially marking. Roo made our defence look 2nd rate.

Our foot skills were appalling (a few exceptions), turn-overs killed us yet again. Sure we had a few out tonight, but if the Saints had Montagna and Stevens they would have won by 10 goals. We would have needed Garland, Dawes, Hogan and Viney just to have broken even IMO. Roos has a tough gig in front of him.

[jnrmac 20,055]

JKH ran around like a madman but he couldn't get much of it, he's not supposed to be doing that he should be at the feet of the tall forwards crumbling the ball.

Ha ha great post. Which tall forwards were they? Pederson?

[Redleg 40,839]

StKilda has been touted as the easy beats all off season.

And as reported it got to them and it made them angry and determined to show the press the pundits and the public at large just how wrong they were.

And I bet their change room was plastered with the negative newspaper articles.

Melbourne on the other hand were expected to win and to win quite comfortably.

StKilda's determination and application from about the 20 minute mark of the 1st quarter to the final siren was clearly palpable to this spectator high up in the stand.

They won the mind game!

They were determined to "stick it up their critics" and they did!

Agree. Their attack on the ball and their aggro at the man was clear to see even from the new guys.

[Redleg 40,839]

on a positive when the ladders comes out tomorrow we will be in the highest position we will had been in years. We will sit above sydney, collingwood, richmond and carlton and nth

What about next week?

[Choko 493]

If we couldn't beat that St Kilda side, where are wins going to come from?

I think our possession style is going to limit the damage at times, but I am finding myself disproportionately deflated and unhappy about last night. Maybe because it's round 1..... but I think the reason is that I can't see a way out for years. These players are totally screwed between the ears. They just think they are losers. Then they are. Vicious cycle. Roos is going to have to be so ridiculously good - and again, the buy in from the players to his message is surely at least particlly tempered by the fact he has committed to no more than 3 years.... Depressing.

[Vince Vega 40]

After last night I think the following changes should be made for next week:

Out: Byrnes In: Blease

Out: Terlich In: Clisby

Out: Bail In: Viney

Out: Spencer or Fitz In: Gawn

And the following changes should be made as soon as injury permits:

Out: Pederson In: Just... anybody

Out: Tom McDonald In: Garland

[Redleg 40,839]

This is a bit radical but even though he isn't ready, I would try and find a way to play King up forward until we can get some of the key forwards back. I know he would have to be uplifted but with Riley as well as Clark out maybe there is a way.

Everyone seems to say don't kill the young guys, but several young guys killed us last night and one of our old guys, who cant' even kick a goal with no pressure from 5 metres out and who is essentially hopeless nearly killed me.