I remember 1 game in his first year where he had a cracker picking up nearly 30 touches from the centre.

This game was against Box Hill and he was terrific. Hurt his back that game and didn't recapture this form.

I was disappointed when he didn't get another go but Todd Viney was there for his entire time and would have had a good handle on him and been able to assess how much of his failure was due to ability/application and how much was environment. And I think his delisting has been mitigated by the recruitment of Michie and Riley particularly as they are similar ages and ability.

I'll watch his progress with interest as I reckon there is a fair chance he'll get another crack.

This game was against Box Hill and he was terrific. Hurt his back that game and didn't recapture this form.

I was disappointed when he didn't get another go but Todd Viney was there for his entire time and would have had a good handle on him and been able to assess how much of his failure was due to ability/application and how much was environment. And I think his delisting has been mitigated by the recruitment of Michie and Riley particularly as they are similar ages and ability.

I'll watch his progress with interest as I reckon there is a fair chance he'll get another crack.

I agree, it's hard because the four rookies we i have a i reckon have decent upside, i reckon there would have been debate between him and Neville Jetta as to who got re-rookied.

2011 draft in a nutshell

- Rubbish draft due to GWS/Gold Coast picks and concessions

- Rubbish recruiter in Prendergast

- Rubbish coach in Neeld putting pressure on the recruiter to get experienced ready to go types in

- Right call on Mitch Clark

- We now have pick 3 from that Draft in Dom Tyson

From the rest of the draft the players who I'd consider the real standouts are: Coniglio (2), Wingard (6), Ellis (15), Mitchell (21 F/S).

There are plenty of other nice prospects - Patton and most of the other GWS boys, Adams, Yeo, Kerridge, Grigg, Brad Hill, Clay Smith, Sheridan, Sutcliff, Neale.

Either way we've got Mitch Clark. We've got back in to the draft in getting Tyson who has shown enough to think he can be a top 5 or 10 player from the draft. It wasn't an amazing draft but there was enough there that with either pick 36 (Taggart) or 52 (Tynan) that you would get one guy who's at least shown something and is still on the list. Anyway there's a reason BP isn't still our recruiter and Neeld isn't our coach.

Then Todd Viney took over in 2012 and suddenly we started drafting like a professional club

Jimmy Toumpas, Jack Viney, Jesse Hogan, Dean Kent, Dom Barry, Matt Jones, Dean Terlich

Might go down as the draft that saved our club and set up future success.

Fascinating how it's the Coach Neeld's fault when we drafted badly under Prendergast in 2011 but we credit the recruiter Viney not the coach Neeld when we recruited well the next year.

I would love to know how much of the recruiting decisions are made by the Coach and how much by the recruiters. Is the coach's input just about what type of players are needed for the game plan or are they out there finding and selecting players. Everyone blames Bailey and Neeld for the disastrous recruiting during their coaching periods but is that correct. Bailey evidently wanted tall players who had stamina to run and carry all day and thus we got a bunch of tall skinny players. The game was changed overnight from non contested, run and carry to contested footy when the bench was changed from 4 to 3. Not necessarily entirely Bailey's fault. Morton was the standout player at pick 4 in his draft. Wasn't entirely Bailey's fault that he ended up the player he did.

Neeld seemed to have a philosophy for big bodies for contested footy. Seems about right for the way footy is heading. Don't know if we can blame him for all the duds that were recruited. He might be responsible for getting the older players to add off field experience but none of them cost anything in picks. On the other hand he seems to have had his hands all over the selection of Dawes and Pedersen.

Clearly in the last draft period all we needed to get was mid fielders. Always a much easier task than finding key position players. Can you credit Roos with finding all the recruits we got for this season or is it the recruiters. I reckon there was an element of luck involved as well. I doubt Adelaide would have let Vince go if they hadn't have had draft picks stripped from them. People are going to keep crediting Roos but is that right. My guess is he says what type of players he wants and the recruiters find them. I wonder if it was him or the Swans recruiters who started looking for players who couldn't get a game like Josh Kennedy and Mattner and poaching them. Now we have Michie. I would say Roos's genius is communicating clearly to those players what their role is and they execute it better than they would have where they were. .

You know you've had a tough draft when James Sellar was the 'ace' of the draft.

I go to round 1 every year............................

"Oh the humanity...." Herbert Morrison commenting on the Hindenburg disaster. Or Dennis Commetti at Melbourne's round 1 performances recently.

Edited March 4, 201411 yr by ManDee

Who went pick 12 in that draft?

Who went pick 12 in that draft?

Sam Docherty

When you consider it 2011 represents all that has gone wrong for the dees in the last decade.

Top pick Clark while a good player has only played 15 games in 2+ seasons and our second, third and fourth picks are all gone two years later.

Seems to be the story of the MFC until now.

Whilst it's easy to pot this draft performance and it's a clearly poor haul, very few players taken after Taggert would have made a demonstrable difference. Grigg would have been a good pick but other than that it's almost irrelevant, there just wasn't much talent to get at this picks.

Why?....it's in the past...what does it achieve apart from the usual hair shirt wearers and Neeld bashers filling a thread with vitriol....what is the point?......if you want to discuss Taggert go and watch Sturt this season....not interested in any player who doesn't play for MFC ....again I can post what I like, same as you let everybody else, same if you don't like it...dont't read it

I suggest you do exactly as you preach. If you dont like the topic/subject dont read it, sport. On your reasoning, you going to jump up and down if someone posts about R.Flower, D.Neitz horror shock they are also in the past. I see nothing wrong than doing back over past mistakes and learning from them and not repeating it. Dr Who strikes again. Anything to do with putting players down or critize you get all high an mighty. chill out.

Its a fair thread to discuss what went wrong with previous drafts.

Jesse Hogan, anyone?

I suggest you do exactly as you preach. If you dont like the topic/subject dont read it, sport. On your reasoning, you going to jump up and down if someone posts about R.Flower, D.Neitz horror shock they are also in the past. I see nothing wrong than doing back over past mistakes and learning from them and not repeating it. Dr Who strikes again. Anything to do with putting players down or critize you get all high an mighty. chill out.

Its a fair thread to discuss what went wrong with previous drafts.

No worries about discussing the draft, but the bagging of Neeld becomes ho - hum and tiresome.

Looking forward now.

Watch out, Saints!!

Jesse Hogan, anyone?

2012

2012

Oh yeah. Oops.

Neeld.

Why?....it's in the past...what does it achieve apart from the usual hair shirt wearers and Neeld bashers filling a thread with vitriol....what is the point?......if you want to discuss Taggert go and watch Sturt this season....not interested in any player who doesn't play for MFC ....again I can post what I like, same as you let everybody else, same if you don't like it...dont't read it

Take your own advice - if you don't like people judging how we went in the 2011 draft - don't click on a thread titled '2011 Draft'...

I didn't realise that posters on here were involved in drafting players to MFC, my mistake, so we must learn from the past, how to continually bash anybody named Schwab, Neeld, Prendergast, it's tiresome...if you need this type of thing in your life I'd have a look in the mirror...try discussing why Taggert was delisted, I know some of the reasons, and it had nothing to do with the coach or the recruiters choice

I didn't realise that posters on here were involved in drafting players to MFC, my mistake, so we must learn from the past, how to continually bash anybody named Schwab, Neeld, Prendergast, it's tiresome...if you need this type of thing in your life I'd have a look in the mirror...try discussing why Taggert was delisted, I know some of the reasons, and it had nothing to do with the coach or the recruiters choice

Well care to spill? Personally I thought his skills and potential upside showed enough despite modest output. From the limited I saw of him, plus training, plus stats he certainly didn't get involved in games enough but seemed to have the ability in skills to mark, kick, tackle, handball etc. So if he got a preseason or two under his belt he may have taken it up a notch. There was also something a bit odd in that his VFL performances were reasonable and pretty much the whole list got a game besides him. I'd be guessing but I'd say it was either

- His attitude/training/preparation was poor

or

- His body was a concern and thus they didn't think they'd ever get him to AFL fitness

I haven't said anything about Neeld in this thread and not too many have. I've said BP was a bad recruiter but I've got no problem with that statement. His draft record (even influenced by substandard development) is pretty ordinary. Last I checked he's got a job at Carlton (not in recruiting) and is probably doing well. From my understanding he wasn't a specialist recruiter when Melbourne hired him and so I'd put the decision to hire him for that position as a club wide failure. That means the board and by extension us, the CEO, the coach (Bailey), the head of footy are all to blame. This thread was created to look back. It was a shocking time. Therefore the reflections will not be great. As long as the discussion is mainly about where and why not who then I don't see the need to be upset. Neeld and Prendergast will be mentioned, it doesn't have to result in outrage.

Well care to spill? Personally I thought his skills and potential upside showed enough despite modest output. From the limited I saw of him, plus training, plus stats he certainly didn't get involved in games enough but seemed to have the ability in skills to mark, kick, tackle, handball etc. So if he got a preseason or two under his belt he may have taken it up a notch. There was also something a bit odd in that his VFL performances were reasonable and pretty much the whole list got a game besides him. I'd be guessing but I'd say it was either

- His attitude/training/preparation was poor

or

- His body was a concern and thus they didn't think they'd ever get him to AFL fitness

I haven't said anything about Neeld in this thread and not too many have. I've said BP was a bad recruiter but I've got no problem with that statement. His draft record (even influenced by substandard development) is pretty ordinary. Last I checked he's got a job at Carlton (not in recruiting) and is probably doing well. From my understanding he wasn't a specialist recruiter when Melbourne hired him and so I'd put the decision to hire him for that position as a club wide failure. That means the board and by extension us, the CEO, the coach (Bailey), the head of footy are all to blame. This thread was created to look back. It was a shocking time. Therefore the reflections will not be great. As long as the discussion is mainly about where and why not who then I don't see the need to be upset. Neeld and Prendergast will be mentioned, it doesn't have to result in outrage.

It's not outrage, it's like Jumob says, tiresome, and it is always the same posters launching

You have it in one, attitude, bit like Weetra and Maric before him, talked the talk but didn't walk the walk

I didn't realise that posters on here were involved in drafting players to MFC, my mistake, so we must learn from the past, how to continually bash anybody named Schwab, Neeld, Prendergast, it's tiresome...if you need this type of thing in your life I'd have a look in the mirror...try discussing why Taggert was delisted, I know some of the reasons, and it had nothing to do with the coach or the recruiters choice

I try not to individualise drafting, recruitment, or development strategy - it's been a collective failure on all fronts for the club over the past decade.

Those that want to hold grudges can do so, it looks petty anyway.

But those who are genuinely looking for ways to get better (or reasons why we have been so bad) - can't ignore past failures as a point of reference.

Ignoring the reasons that have led us to this point is not healthy.

I try not to individualise drafting, recruitment, or development strategy - it's been a collective failure on all fronts for the club over the past decade.

Those that want to hold grudges can do so, it looks petty anyway.

But those who are genuinely looking for ways to get better (or reasons why we have been so bad) - can't ignore past failures as a point of reference.

Ignoring the reasons that have led us to this point is not healthy.

The point I was trying to make, and the reason Mods on here have such a hard time, is posts like this tend to open the door for the pettiness.

As posters on here have no input whatsoever into the drafting process, and the whole personnel has changed at the Club, I don't think there are any lessons to be learnt by anyone by raking over the coals one more time

I try not to individualise drafting, recruitment, or development strategy - it's been a collective failure on all fronts for the club over the past decade.

Those that want to hold grudges can do so, it looks petty anyway.

But those who are genuinely looking for ways to get better (or reasons why we have been so bad) - can't ignore past failures as a point of reference.

Ignoring the reasons that have led us to this point is not healthy.

Agree in part.

But continual finger pointing doesn't get the job done either.

Let the healing begin.

Agree in part.

But continual finger pointing doesn't get the job done either.

Let the healing begin.

Winning games is the only salve that will heal the wounds created over the last decade jr.

The rest is just words to 10 000 members who have not renewed plus many more who are now totally cynical about the MFC.

The point I was trying to make, and the reason Mods on here have such a hard time, is posts like this tend to open the door for the pettiness.

As posters on here have no input whatsoever into the drafting process, and the whole personnel has changed at the Club, I don't think there are any lessons to be learnt by anyone by raking over the coals one more time

You are 100% correct but we have no influence over how the game is played, selection etc. yet all have an opinion which is why we use the forum.

We also are a club and these lessons need to be understood by members if and when board elections come up, that's where we may have some influence. Pressure from members to the AFL helped in some small way to get them on board and bring Jackson in.

We have continually made the same mistakes and it is a good thing if the members of the club understand or at least discuss them so we as members can at least vote with our feet. Nothing wrong with that.

...and as 'old dee' points out above, winning is what will heal the wounds or at least paint over them for a time.

You are 100% correct but we have no influence over how the game is played, selection etc. yet all have an opinion which is why we use the forum.

We also are a club and these lessons need to be understood by members if and when board elections come up, that's where we may have some influence. Pressure from members to the AFL helped in some small way to get them on board and bring Jackson in.

We have continually made the same mistakes and it is a good thing if the members of the club understand or at least discuss them so we as members can at least vote with our feet. Nothing wrong with that.

...and as 'old dee' points out above, winning is what will heal the wounds or at least paint over them for a time.

I have been to quite a few AGM, most members sit on their hands, all talk

Big business, sponsors and the TV channels pressured the AFL into acting,