Agree. And I think Spencer while not the most accomplished ruckman going around gives great commitment and contests really well.

I love how he chases down and tackles mids, that sort of effort is fantastic from a big bloke

Even against the weaker sides pressure will go up in round 1. Sorting out who can handle it against the best today is certainly better than finding it out in a couple of weeks those who can't. A win today would have created confidence but potential to get ahead of themselves. They have 2 weeks to learn from today, get it out of their heads and move on.

I'm not sure if you're suggesting playing the Hawks was a good idea but in hindsight it was a dreadful idea and one I never supported.

One of the major focuses of the preseason would have been to rebuild confidence and belief and I reckon a 110 point drubbing/humiliation against the Hawks would have erased much of the good work that has been done. To schedule a game against the powerhouse of the competition in the last practice match where teams play their best players after a draining game in the NT against another top team was strange to say the least. Those who say we need to find out where we are at should just listen to Roos. He's knows where we're at.

We would have been much better playing a good middle of the road team because the reality is they are our competition. Hawks, Geelong, Freo and the Swans are on another planet and not our competition ATM.

Anyway I'm in the Goodvibe camp - I didn't see it so it didn't happen. Pity the players can't say the same.

i liked the way he played, he was very clean with the ball and had the skills for AFL. I wondered why he wasn't selected a number of times and let's be honest it's not easy playing the half forward role in a very bad team, much easier to be a defender some what. I think Bennel was quite similar to where Toumpas is now. I think we need to put Toumpas on the half back line or back pocket and get him out of that half forward role which hasn't work for similar players like Watts, Bennell and Tapscott. It's a very tough position in a bad team.

I liked his skills & his athleticism. & I thought he had the beginnings of a footy player.

I think wonder that we wrecked his career by playing him early without a top notch development coach as we have now in Stone. we let benny be soft, without shifting that stuff out of him. as we did with many. you don't have to rule with a fist to teach but the players have to know they won't get a game until they harden up & do the intangible things like defend & tackle, hard.

I doubt that this problem will happen under Roos & Stone.... Thankfully !!!!!!!

Btw, I've been meaning to say, how good was Sam Mitchell in close ? He's amazing. So slippery and so composed. He waits for the last moment to release a handball, which is invariably perfect. He balks, blind turns, does the shimmy, he's just so hard to tackle.

Agree. And I think Spencer while not the most accomplished ruckman going around gives great commitment and contests really well.

These are the posts that confuse me.

Nobody is or has disputed that. No one has questioned his commitment or competitveness.

It's not the point. The point is we need him and plenty of others to be eventually squeezed out of the starting 22 because it's his limitations that add to the problem that I'm speaking of.

These are the posts that confuse me.

Nobody is or has disputed that. No one has questioned his commitment or competitveness.

It's not the point. The point is we need him and plenty of others to be eventually squeezed out of the starting 22 because it's his limitations that add to the problem that I'm speaking of.

Or alternatively we need him to improve his ruck work significantly, we can't just keep turing over young players, eventually one has to develop and hold that spot down

Or alternatively we need him to improve his ruck work significantly, we can't just keep turing over young players, eventually one has to develop and hold that spot down

Modern day ruckmen need to be able to do far more than only tap work. That's the least of Spencer's concerns anyway.

The guy cannot do the basics. The bare minimum. He drops marks, fumbles has a terrible kick and not a fantastic footy brain.

I'm not here to have a go at him. I'm being brutally honest in my assessment and any non-biased supporter would say the same thing.

Gawn and Jamar are clearly our preferred choices for ruckman as they each contribute a wider range of attributes. Spencer may improve his

'tap work', but that doesn't affect any of the other glaring deficiencies in his game.

At AFL level, you bother have the time nor the resources to have someone on the senior list who needs to improve so many areas and attributes in order to be a 'decent' player. Spencer is getting a gig because nobody else is fit. We all know that. There's nothing to debate.

He'll continue to play until Gawn and Jamar are fit.

Modern day ruckmen need to be able to do far more than only tap work. That's the least of Spencer's concerns anyway.

The guy cannot do the basics. The bare minimum. He drops marks, fumbles has a terrible kick and not a fantastic footy brain.

I'm not here to have a go at him. I'm being brutally honest in my assessment and any non-biased supporter would say the same thing.

Gawn and Jamar are clearly our preferred choices for ruckman as they each contribute a wider range of attributes. Spencer may improve his

'tap work', but that doesn't affect any of the other glaring deficiencies in his game.

At AFL level, you bother have the time nor the resources to have someone on the senior list who needs to improve so many areas and attributes in order to be a 'decent' player. Spencer is getting a gig because nobody else is fit. We all know that. There's nothing to debate.

He'll continue to play until Gawn and Jamar are fit.

And if Gawn and Jamar have bad years for whatever reasons we should be looking to draft a ruck man at the end of the year. Jack Hannath is a perfect example of the depth that we need and we should of drafted him, when Sandilands, Clarke were out he did the job for a number of rounds to cover them.

Where the [censored] is Jamar?

Has he done a lisfranc as well?

Where the [censored] is Jamar?

Has he done a lisfranc as well?

Jr the guy has had one good year in 2010 and since then has been injured more than on the field.

He is gone.

OTH, think about our other ruckmen there is nothing much left in the Jamar tank.

I'm not sure if you're suggesting playing the Hawks was a good idea but in hindsight it was a dreadful idea and one I never supported.

One of the major focuses of the preseason would have been to rebuild confidence and belief and I reckon a 110 point drubbing/humiliation against the Hawks would have erased much of the good work that has been done. To schedule a game against the powerhouse of the competition in the last practice match where teams play their best players after a draining game in the NT against another top team was strange to say the least. Those who say we need to find out where we are at should just listen to Roos. He's knows where we're at.

We would have been much better playing a good middle of the road team because the reality is they are our competition. Hawks, Geelong, Freo and the Swans are on another planet and not our competition ATM.

Anyway I'm in the Goodvibe camp - I didn't see it so it didn't happen. Pity the players can't say the same.

Do we have any control over who we're scheduled to play against in these matches?

How would it look if we requested a "soft" opponent instead of Hawthorn (or if we did that and lost anyway)?

Did we know at the time the programme came out that none of Clark, Dawes, Hogan, Garland, Jamar and Gawn were going to be available along with a handful of others who were either injured or rested or given minimal game time?

I think a flogging with half a side unavailable against the reigning premiers at close to full strength isn't anything near as disastrous as many would think.

Fremantle, who were runners up to Hawthorn were flogged by the Eagles by almost similar proportions but I didn't hear about Ross Lyon sticking a fork in his toaster and I doubt that Paul Roos is losing much sleep either.

After all, it was just a practice match.

Do we have any control over who we're scheduled to play against in these matches?

How would it look if we requested a "soft" opponent instead of Hawthorn (or if we did that and lost anyway)?

Did we know at the time the programme came out that none of Clark, Dawes, Hogan, Garland, Jamar and Gawn were going to be available along with a handful of others who were either injured or rested or given minimal game time?

I think a flogging with half a side unavailable against the reigning premiers at close to full strength isn't anything near as disastrous as many would think.

Fremantle, who were runners up to Hawthorn were flogged by the Eagles by almost similar proportions but I didn't hear about Ross Lyon sticking a fork in his toaster and I doubt that Paul Roos is losing much sleep either.

After all, it was just a practice match.

Well said WJ, just a shame for all the Melbourne supporters who due to all the hype travelled over to Casey to support the lads only to watch a performance all to similar to the 2013 season. Yes it was a practice match and the result didn't mean anything as there were no premiership points available, but the supporters have to be factored into the situation at some point. Otherwise for future practice matches the crowd might be 5000 instead of 10000!!!!!!!

Nothing wrong with being competitive.

More excuses.

All good.

Do we have any control over who we're scheduled to play against in these matches?

How would it look if we requested a "soft" opponent instead of Hawthorn (or if we did that and lost anyway)?

Did we know at the time the programme came out that none of Clark, Dawes, Hogan, Garland, Jamar and Gawn were going to be available along with a handful of others who were either injured or rested or given minimal game time?

I think a flogging with half a side unavailable against the reigning premiers at close to full strength isn't anything near as disastrous as many would think.

Fremantle, who were runners up to Hawthorn were flogged by the Eagles by almost similar proportions but I didn't hear about Ross Lyon sticking a fork in his toaster and I doubt that Paul Roos is losing much sleep either.

After all, it was just a practice match.

I don't know if we had any control. And I don't think we had half our team out, we had most of our forward line and reading the scores it doesn't seem like it went in there much. Even if it made the result 5 goals different it was still very poor for us.

And whilst I know team have had floggings in practice matches before I can't think of a team, other than a development team, who have come from a position such as ours where the building of confidence has been one of the major, if not the major focus.

I don't have the details, but who did GWS and GCS play on the weekend? And I can't image Clarkson was thrilled with his sides last practice match.

It was a poor result all round and trying to paint it otherwise doesn't rub with me.

And whilst I know team have had floggings in practice matches before I can't think of a team, other than a development team, who have come from a position such as ours where the building of confidence has been one of the major, if not the major focus.

Perhaps we should have just played intra-clubs, and/or matches against Casey?

I don't know if we had any control. And I don't think we had half our team out, we had most of our forward line and reading the scores it doesn't seem like it went in there much. Even if it made the result 5 goals different it was still very poor for us.

And whilst I know team have had floggings in practice matches before I can't think of a team, other than a development team, who have come from a position such as ours where the building of confidence has been one of the major, if not the major focus.

I don't have the details, but who did GWS and GCS play on the weekend? And I can't image Clarkson was thrilled with his sides last practice match.

It was a poor result all round and trying to paint it otherwise doesn't rub with me.

I am finding it hard to disagree!

Modern day ruckmen need to be able to do far more than only tap work. That's the least of Spencer's concerns anyway.

The guy cannot do the basics. The bare minimum. He drops marks, fumbles has a terrible kick and not a fantastic footy brain.

I'm not here to have a go at him. I'm being brutally honest in my assessment and any non-biased supporter would say the same thing.

Gawn and Jamar are clearly our preferred choices for ruckman as they each contribute a wider range of attributes. Spencer may improve his

'tap work', but that doesn't affect any of the other glaring deficiencies in his game.

At AFL level, you bother have the time nor the resources to have someone on the senior list who needs to improve so many areas and attributes in order to be a 'decent' player. Spencer is getting a gig because nobody else is fit. We all know that. There's nothing to debate.

He'll continue to play until Gawn and Jamar are fit.

i agree about spencer.... Great attitude, but not enough tools to compete all day.... from your list of modern day ruck demands.... the only guys we have that could perform that role, are Clark and Fitzpatrick...

Gawn in time may turn into a Sandilands type, though that will take a few more years.... And Jamar is way past it, ive already forgotten about him...lol... Who knows what Max King can do in the future, but to raw for this year....

If all are fit and firing, then id like to see Fitzpatrick train as a ruckman...

I'm not sure if you're suggesting playing the Hawks was a good idea but in hindsight it was a dreadful idea and one I never supported.

One of the major focuses of the preseason would have been to rebuild confidence and belief and I reckon a 110 point drubbing/humiliation against the Hawks would have erased much of the good work that has been done. To schedule a game against the powerhouse of the competition in the last practice match where teams play their best players after a draining game in the NT against another top team was strange to say the least. Those who say we need to find out where we are at should just listen to Roos. He's knows where we're at.

We would have been much better playing a good middle of the road team because the reality is they are our competition. Hawks, Geelong, Freo and the Swans are on another planet and not our competition ATM.

Anyway I'm in the Goodvibe camp - I didn't see it so it didn't happen. Pity the players can't say the same.

No one can suggest that it was a good idea in hindsight. I am struggling however to find the pile of posts from people prior saying it was a bad idea though. Most were keen to see us try our hand against the best and see where we are at. Well now we know. I still think we learn more about ourselves in this that we would have if we played GWS as an example. I still think with two weeks to go until we play there is next to no chance we will get ahead of ourselves against StKilda (which as seen the last 2 years can be of concern).

Can someone tell me why Jones is on the injury list? What type of injury does he have?

Will he be right for rd1?

I don't know if we had any control. And I don't think we had half our team out, we had most of our forward line and reading the scores it doesn't seem like it went in there much. Even if it made the result 5 goals different it was still very poor for us.

You did say you weren't there, didn't you?

Apart from Jeremy Howe, the following of those who would spend time up forward weren't playing - Clark, Dawes, Hogan, Bail with next dibs for tall forwards/resting rucks Jamar and Gawn (and I would have either in the ruck instead of Spencer). Viney and JKH were subs who came on too late in the game to have an influence but most here (OD for certain!) would have them and Dean Kent (who played for the Scorpions later in the day with JV, JKH and Bail) playing small forward ahead of Shannon Byrnes. I've covered the rucks we missed and despite Spencer's endeavour, those mentioned would have helped our midfield on the day. Jack Fitzpatrick would have been better as a permanent forward but was needed in the ruck. Our defence was close to our best but Garland and Clisby would have helped out there so I stand by my comments about missing half a team and most of our forward line.

That's not an excuse, it's a statement that given we weren't playing for sheep stations, it shouldn't be taken as demoralising for the players. And Roos didn't appear to be doing much tactically to indicate that the scoreboard was all that important to him.

I've said elsewhere that it was a poor performance but it isn't the end of the world. I remember us beating Carlton in a practice match by 15 goals some years ago and two weeks later they gave us a flogging. At the end of the day, they had the percentage and the four points - we had zilch.

In any event, the AFL does the programming. To suggest we shouldn't take on the best even when we're light on for our best 22 players is a sign of abject weakness. Hopefully, that will soon be a thing of the past.

No one can suggest that it was a good idea in hindsight. I am struggling however to find the pile of posts from people prior saying it was a bad idea though. Most were keen to see us try our hand against the best and see where we are at. Well now we know. I still think we learn more about ourselves in this that we would have if we played GWS as an example. I still think with two weeks to go until we play there is next to no chance we will get ahead of ourselves against StKilda (which as seen the last 2 years can be of concern).

Post 60 Of this thread I made my thoughts plain, it was a very bad idea. I think Bagdad Bob agreed, many others wanted to bring it on. I think the issue revolves around how post NAB challenge matches are determined. If MFC had no say, there is no further need for discussion. However if MFC had some say in who we played, I then have to question the managements thinking. We would have wanted a home match at Casey against someone we had not played in the challenge, so the options are limited, given The Blues, the Tiges and some others would want home games. Does anyone know the rules?

These are the posts that confuse me.

Nobody is or has disputed that. No one has questioned his commitment or competitveness.

It's not the point. The point is we need him and plenty of others to be eventually squeezed out of the starting 22 because it's his limitations that add to the problem that I'm speaking of.

You never have a perfect team. Its all about players that can play roles. In a perfect team Spencil probably wouldn't get in. But my view is that he is a reasonable big man (yes with a few flaws). Other areas would need fixing before Spence.

So your post is not really practical in the way the modern draft works.

Post 60 Of this thread I made my thoughts plain, it was a very bad idea. I think Bagdad Bob agreed, many others wanted to bring it on. I think the issue revolves around how post NAB challenge matches are determined. If MFC had no say, there is no further need for discussion. However if MFC had some say in who we played, I then have to question the managements thinking. We would have wanted a home match at Casey against someone we had not played in the challenge, so the options are limited, given The Blues, the Tiges and some others would want home games. Does anyone know the rules?

Why would you think we had any say in who we played?

Aside from the interstate sides who are given some preference for minimising travel I would guess its pretty random..

i liked the way he played, he was very clean with the ball and had the skills for AFL. I wondered why he wasn't selected a number of times and let's be honest it's not easy playing the half forward role in a very bad team, much easier to be a defender some what. I think Bennel was quite similar to where Toumpas is now. I think we need to put Toumpas on the half back line or back pocket and get him out of that half forward role which hasn't work for similar players like Watts, Bennell and Tapscott. It's a very tough position in a bad team.

Bennel played most of his early football under Bailey as a half back.

And if Gawn and Jamar have bad years for whatever reasons we should be looking to draft a ruck man at the end of the year. Jack Hannath is a perfect example of the depth that we need and we should of drafted him, when Sandilands, Clarke were out he did the job for a number of rounds to cover them.

We don't need depth in the ruck we need class. Forget Hannath, better to go after Clarke or Griffin.