I don't quite get why Neeld went off him.

He loved his hard side initially and while his kicking wasn't always precise, that was partly because Neeld wanted the players to just bomb it up the line.

This year he gave him two cracks at it.

The first game against Richmond (rd 8 I think) he was really good and was one of the reasons why we weren't thrashed - a rarity under Neeld.

The next game he was one of many who didn't go so well at patersons Stadium against Freo.

Since then he's had to watch as the club gives everyone else who plays well in the VFL run, except him.

While team balance makes it harder now that jack Viney is back and Sylvia is being used more in the middle, there's no doubt he'd be harder at it than just about anybody else and he would be more likely to lay a tackle resting as a forward than Blease, Davey, Byrnes, Howey and Tappy - no need to mention Watts.

Replacing crap with crap wouldn't make any difference, other than supporters think the club is trying stuff.

Know what I mean ?

A crap player who can get 20-25 possessions and a handful of clearances is surely preferable than a crap player who struggles to get 10 possessions.

Obviously lacks speed and also doesn't seem able to impact AFL with endurance either ie. doesn't rack up uncontested disposals at AFL level.

The first Freo game we got belted when Magner played. This time we went for Jones, Viney, McKenzie, Sylvia predominately with also Grimes and Trengove as the inside midfielders. Put Magner in and you take one of those guys out. Now I'd be happy for Grimes to go back to half back or for Sylvia to play half forward and rotate in to the midfield to give Magner 2 weeks just to see what he can do but I don't hold high hopes.

The big questions are:

1. Do you ever think Magner will be AFL standard?

2. Will playing Magner make an impact on the scoreboard ie. will he perform any better than Viney, McKenzie, Sylvia or Grimes do in the midfield

If your answer to both those questions is NO then you wouldn't play him if he had 100 possessions. Same for Rodan.

interesting we have on many threads been talking about culture, on field leadership, hard bodies, players who want the ball, I agree Magner is not the solution but he may be part of it. 36 handballs last week. That is 36 handballs to outside receivers, if we had any. I watched Freo do us over in the middle on Sunday, another hard arse like Viney, a la Magner would not have won us the game but it may have reduced the carnage.

I don't quite get why Neeld went off him.

He loved his hard side initially and while his kicking wasn't always precise, that was partly because Neeld wanted the players to just bomb it up the line.

This year he gave him two cracks at it.

The first game against Richmond (rd 8 I think) he was really good and was one of the reasons why we weren't thrashed - a rarity under Neeld.

The next game he was one of many who didn't go so well at patersons Stadium against Freo.

Since then he's had to watch as the club gives everyone else who plays well in the VFL run, except him.

While team balance makes it harder now that jack Viney is back and Sylvia is being used more in the middle, there's no doubt he'd be harder at it than just about anybody else and he would be more likely to lay a tackle resting as a forward than Blease, Davey, Byrnes, Howey and Tappy - no need to mention Watts.

Yeah the quality of the opposition was much different but we were a better team when we had Nicholson and Clisby in and Howe and Blease out ie. some resting midfielders who actually run and chase and find the footy are better than guys who are capable of kicking a freak goal but can't get a kick the rest of the time. Hopefully one of the coaches noticed that. Of course they hope Blease and Howe are big parts of the future but the future won't come if we keep playing guys forward who can't impact games.

Turns it over with poor disposal.

If he was creative, made good decisions, and executed delivery he'd be playing. The fact that he struggles to get a game in arguably the worst midfield in history should probably tell you something.

I'd be happy for him to just win the pill 30 plus times and handball it every single time to the nearest player wearing red and the blue, even if that player's sitting on the bench.

interesting we have on many threads been talking about culture, on field leadership, hard bodies, players who want the ball, I agree Magner is not the solution but he may be part of it. 36 handballs last week. That is 36 handballs to outside receivers, if we had any. I watched Freo do us over in the middle on Sunday, another hard arse like Viney, a la Magner would not have won us the game but it may have reduced the carnage.

Yeah but did you notice how many times Viney and Sylvia in particularly got their hands on the ball and tried to get it out but had no one smart or good enough to be in the right spots. Viney had 5 touches early in the first of the teams 9 ie. he hunted the ball and then no one could get on the end of it. Or the number of times Freo won the ball (particularly in the first 3/4) and we tackled and chased and pressured as they handballed around unable to get anywhere then a smart handball went to a Danyle Pearce or other clever outside player in space.

As I said I'm all for playing Magner but I can also see why they haven't.

Never thought I'd ever say this.....

Play Magner.

Drop Watts.

The first game against Richmond (rd 8 I think) he was really good and was one of the reasons why we weren't thrashed - a rarity under Neeld.

The next game he was one of many who didn't go so well at patersons Stadium against Freo.

Out of curiosity I looked up his stats for his afl games this year and he got 20 possies against richmond and 21 possies against freo, doesn't seem that atrocious

Yeah but did you notice how many times Viney and Sylvia in particularly got their hands on the ball and tried to get it out but had no one smart or good enough to be in the right spots. Viney had 5 touches early in the first of the teams 9 ie. he hunted the ball and then no one could get on the end of it. Or the number of times Freo won the ball (particularly in the first 3/4) and we tackled and chased and pressured as they handballed around unable to get anywhere then a smart handball went to a Danyle Pearce or other clever outside player in space.

As I said I'm all for playing Magner but I can also see why they haven't.

I take on board your point. What I noticed on Sunday was the rapid handball by Freo in contested situations. We see it all the time in the middle with the Hawks or the Cats. Their elite mids only have the ball for a second before it is passed off to another insider if required or then it is sent off rapid fire to an outsider on the move forward. Now has anyone seen this setup with the Dees? It is usually ruck tap to Jones, who graps it just prior to be being gang tackled and we get another ball up. But for us that is a win.

I share Ben-Hur's view, though I also believe he has to be picked after his 51 disposal game in the VFL. Performance like that just has to be rewarded.

I think we all agree that Magner is probably not a long-term option, but when you get beat so bad, it's important that we are not outmuscled.

Had Magner played last week it would have allowed two things;

1) Grimes could have played as a defender - the position he made his name at our club and one which they our now loathe to use him in.

2) It would have given us the option of moving Nathan Jones to a forward pocket to try and overcome his tagger Crowley.

We still would have been smashed in the oustide run-and-carry because we don't have a Hill or a Pearce or a Spurr or a Fyfe, but we probably would have matched them for hardball gets all day, instead of tiring in last term.

We have to wait and hope that Toumpas kicks on next season and is quicker after a big pre-season, that Kent keeps developing, that we either draft Aish or trade for Sloane.

But for the time being surely we'd all like to have a tough nut with defiencies than guys who average less than three tackles a game.

its still baffling ( to me ) to elevate him then ........well

In the end we can argue Magner's abilities but it should be about honouring performances in the magoos. You play well consistently you get a chance. Conversely you play insipid rubbish in the ones and you get dropped. No matter watt your draft number or past history.

Is this guy any good?

No matter watt your draft number or past history.

Pun intended?

Pun intended?

Yes!

Have seen him play about 10 games this year. Gets plenty of the ball especially the hard in and under balls, but disposal not great with foot. But isn't that why we have inside and outside mids ( well other clubs do). Obviously another thing that Royal is not able to work out that there should be outside players waiting for the ball to come out. It should be a basic set play where outside players run to in a stoppage.

Really feel for the guy being upgraded and not getting a game but wait we will probably give Rodan another game because he looks flashy with his runs.

I will never understand why neeld and now perhaps Craig keep picking spuds over average players.

It's not that he's a great or even good player, but his VFL form is consistently MILES above any other MFC listed player. Yet Blease, Rodan, Sellar, Pedersen, etc etc are always called up first with less form.

In fact, with his VFL stats each week, it seems ridiculous that he cannot get a start in the worst midfield in the comp.

It is ridiculous. Completely and utterly.

Maybe the club can't afford his match payments or they have a salary cap issue with so many high priced players out injured and being paid.

This year he gave him two cracks at it.

The first game against Richmond (rd 8 I think) he was really good and was one of the reasons why we weren't thrashed - a rarity under Neeld.

The next game he was one of many who didn't go so well at patersons Stadium against Freo.

Since then he's had to watch as the club gives everyone else who plays well in the VFL run, except him.

Exactly. Given two opportunities, one of which he seized and the other where we were up against the same mob that choked us to death on the weekend, only on their home ground. Then he's left to rot in the magoos for the rest of the year.

50 touches? For heaven's sake, let the man play.

I'm just playing devils advocate but in the 2 games he did play

Rich- Ellis 39, Deledio 27, Cotchin 27, Jackson 23

Freo - Mundy 34, Fyfe 32, Barlow 32, C. Pearce 31

Of course none of that is really anything new for us but it seems his main opponents find much more of the footy than he does.

On the other hand 6 tackles in both games is a significant achievement

My only guess why he has struggled to get a senior game since being promoted after so many 30+ disposal performances is because of his attitude. I know he gets to training early etc. although i find it interesting in the majority of player interviews when asked "who's the most annoying teammate" or "who's the biggest pest" they often mention James Magner. Other than that I'm stumped as to why the selection committee continue to make a pass on him.

My only guess why he has struggled to get a senior game since being promoted after so many 30+ disposal performances is because of his attitude. I know he gets to training early etc. although i find it interesting in the majority of player interviews when asked "who's the most annoying teammate" or "who's the biggest pest" they often mention James Magner. Other than that I'm stumped as to why the selection committee continue to make a pass on him.

You do know there is a difference between being annoying to your team mates and having a bad attitude? The players like to hang it on Magner because he's a mini Nathan Jones and I get the feeling he's a bit of a pest or always peddling something on twitter. That's completely different to attitude and professionalism. I'd say most of his team mates probably like Magner. They certainly would be keen to have him in the side much more than want to keep him out of it. He's not Mitch Morton!