OUT: Abbott IN: Turnbull

[nutbean 8,837]

consumate ?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/consummate

to say he comsum mated us, you may be right. Iraq, Afghanistan, Free Trade agreements that Aren't, Lies, children overboard, have a baby for the country tax incentive, smashing of awards, etc etc.

fulfilled his dream, yes

consummate, perfect in every respect? No

but to me, an average politician who had the backing of his party, after others fell by the wayside. He was there so long, he eventually became fashionable, in his 5 mins.

You didn't read what I wrote. I disliked his politics but he was the consummate politician. For all those "ills" you highlighted - how many of them stuck ? How many cost him politically. He could sense what the majority of Australians wanted ( understanding that a good majority in political terms is 55%) and respond to it . So you are only half right in saying that he backing of his party - he also had the backing of the majority of Australians. He managed to make some rather unsavoury policies saleable.

I never voted for him but you cannot compare the buffoon that is Abbott to John Howard.

[dee-luded 2,958]

You didn't read what I wrote. I disliked his politics but he was the consummate politician. For all those "ills" you highlighted - how many of them stuck ? How many cost him politically. He could sense what the majority of Australians wanted ( understanding that a good majority in political terms is 55%) and respond to it . So you are only half right in saying that he backing of his party - he also had the backing of the majority of Australians. He managed to make some rather unsavoury policies saleable.

I never voted for him but you cannot compare the buffoon that is Abbott to John Howard.

Yes, your right. on both counts.

I'm struggling with my eyes at the moment, & then had to go back to my old computer after I purchased an Anti-Virus for the newer computer, which seems to be causing some issues with my browser?

but the older computer has now got a tiny text size on the forums, & I can't remember yet, how to fix this?

..............

Yes your right, I agree with all you wrote.

he was popular at a time,,,, after Keating's arrogant style lost the people's trust.

Howard flowed in on that rebellion, & cruised thru in a time of great Economic activity & employment, following Keating's reforms... good ideas at that time.

However now I wish we didn't float the dollar, as we have, & didn't privatise our public companies.

.

Edited March 15, 2014 by dee-luded

[Earl Hood 5,818]

You didn't read what I wrote. I disliked his politics but he was the consummate politician. For all those "ills" you highlighted - how many of them stuck ? How many cost him politically. He could sense what the majority of Australians wanted ( understanding that a good majority in political terms is 55%) and respond to it . So you are only half right in saying that he backing of his party - he also had the backing of the majority of Australians. He managed to make some rather unsavoury policies saleable.

I never voted for him but you cannot compare the buffoon that is Abbott to John Howard.

Of course you are right Nutbean but Honest John(who wasn't) always had a big advantage, it didn't matter how much Shyte he uttered he had the News Corp cheer squads to back him up and the Sydney brain dead shock jocks applauding his every action. That lot will nearly always get you 55% approval from the the voters.

[Grapeviney 8,976]

You didn't read what I wrote. I disliked his politics but he was the consummate politician. For all those "ills" you highlighted - how many of them stuck ? How many cost him politically. He could sense what the majority of Australians wanted ( understanding that a good majority in political terms is 55%) and respond to it . So you are only half right in saying that he backing of his party - he also had the backing of the majority of Australians. He managed to make some rather unsavoury policies saleable.

I never voted for him but you cannot compare the buffoon that is Abbott to John Howard.

People forget that it took time for Howard to grow in to the job, so much so that it seemed his might be a one-term Government early on; a handful of Ministers were forced to resign in the first couple of years, Hanson and the gun laws threatened to split the conservative vote, and then of course there was the risk of going to the polls with the GST.

Howard was considered so hopeless that when he was resurrected as Opposition Leader for the 2nd or 3rd time, The Bulletin had him on the cover of their magazine with the massive headline: "Mr 18 per cent - Why Does This Man Bother?"

The rest, as they say, is history.

You're right though - he developed a fabulous radar for what the average Australian punter was thinking on any given issue.

[Grapeviney 8,976]

Of course you are right Nutbean but Honest John(who wasn't) always had a big advantage, it didn't matter how much Shyte he uttered he had the News Corp cheer squads to back him up and the Sydney brain dead shock jocks applauding his every action. That lot will nearly always get you 55% approval from the the voters.

That may be true, but he was also helped by a largely inept Labor in Opposition, particularly after the 2001 election >>>> the white-anting of Simon Crean from day one of his leadership, and then the Latham fiasco.

[dee-luded 2,958]

People forget that it took time for Howard to grow in to the job, so much so that it seemed his might be a one-term Government early on; a handful of Ministers were forced to resign in the first couple of years, Hanson and the gun laws threatened to split the conservative vote, and then of course there was the risk of going to the polls with the GST.

Howard was considered so hopeless that when he was resurrected as Opposition Leader for the 2nd or 3rd time, The Bulletin had him on the cover of their magazine with the massive headline: "Mr 18 per cent - Why Does This Man Bother?"

The rest, as they say, is history.

You're right though - he developed a fabulous radar for what the average Australian punter was thinking on any given issue.

I voted for the Libs & howard, for the GST...

but was disappointed in his Liberal government, after some good things re the gun laws GST. however the GST failed to fix the black economies of the gangs & mafia's.

[dee-luded 2,958]

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/buswell-adviser-rachael-turnseck-interviewed-by-wa-police/story-fnhocxo3-1226854828159

Buswell adviser Rachael Turnseck interviewed by WA police

THE chief of staff of disgraced former West Australian treasurer Troy Buswell has been interviewed by police investigating the car crash that led to his resignation.

Mr Buswell stepped down from cabinet this week following revelations he was hospitalised for 10 days after a mental breakdown in the wake of a car crash in the early hours of February 23. He has been at a wedding reception.

Police continue to probe the events that led to Mr Buswell's car crashing into the gates of his own house, and are also investigating damage to other cars and property in Subiaco.

Rachael Turnseck was at the same wedding, leaving several hours before Mr Buswell's fateful journey home. Premier Colin Barnett confirmed today that she had been interviewed by police.

WA opposition leader Mark McGowan is demanding a public inquiry into the events to find out whether the government had covered up a crime.

“Driving a vehicle while extremely intoxicated is inexcusable under any circumstances. Covering up incidents around that is inexcusable under any circumstances,” Mr McGowan said.

“I don't believe the excuses that are being given and there is significant evidence that needs an inquiry.”

“Driving a vehicle while extremely intoxicated is inexcusable under any circumstances. Covering up incidents around that is inexcusable under any circumstances,” Mr McGowan said.

.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/buswell-adviser-rachael-turnseck-interviewed-by-wa-police/story-fnhocxo3-1226854828159

Buswell adviser Rachael Turnseck interviewed by WA police

THE chief of staff of disgraced former West Australian treasurer Troy Buswell has been interviewed by police investigating the car crash that led to his resignation.

Mr Buswell stepped down from cabinet this week following revelations he was hospitalised for 10 days after a mental breakdown in the wake of a car crash in the early hours of February 23. He has been at a wedding reception.

Police continue to probe the events that led to Mr Buswell's car crashing into the gates of his own house, and are also investigating damage to other cars and property in Subiaco.

Rachael Turnseck was at the same wedding, leaving several hours before Mr Buswell's fateful journey home. Premier Colin Barnett confirmed today that she had been interviewed by police.

WA opposition leader Mark McGowan is demanding a public inquiry into the events to find out whether the government had covered up a crime.

“Driving a vehicle while extremely intoxicated is inexcusable under any circumstances. Covering up incidents around that is inexcusable under any circumstances,” Mr McGowan said.

“I don't believe the excuses that are being given and there is significant evidence that needs an inquiry.”

“Driving a vehicle while extremely intoxicated is inexcusable under any circumstances. Covering up incidents around that is inexcusable under any circumstances,” Mr McGowan said.

.

So Mr Seat Sniffer is in trouble again.

What a naught boy he has been.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

I voted for the Libs & howard, for the GST...

but was disappointed in his Liberal government, after some good things re the gun laws GST. however the GST failed to fix the black economies of the gangs & mafia's.

Sorry DL but IMO Blind Freddy could see that the changes to tax laws under "the new tax system" legislation was only going to make the black economy bigger.

As the legislation only rebranded existing taxes and introduce a so called growth tax of the GST, which was hoping the End Customers would demand a valid tax invoice from their Suppliers so they can claim but any GST Credits they maybe entiled to. But if a Supplier said to a non registered (for GST) person or business "I can charge you either $110 for my service with an invoice or $100 without an invoice" I know which option many of use would take, as they are unable to claim any G Also the penalty for not properly recording the transaction is the Suppliers and not the Customer. The fact that a business has to ensure their Suppliers quotes an ABN before payment is made, was designed to ensure a proper paper trail exists but how many transaction are there that are either an exchange of service between business (I will do this for you if you do that for me) or dealing with non GST registered person or entities?

I did agree with Honest John over the changes to gun laws.

But after getting Australia involved in two wars I believe Honest John to be an truly evil person.

[dee-luded 2,958]

So Mr Seat Sniffer is in trouble again.

What a naught boy he has been.

is he the same one? that seat sniffer? i didn't realise it was him.

So Mr Seat Sniffer is in trouble again.

What a naught boy he has been.

You'd think his Lib mates would have seen to it, he didn't have his Keys.... someone could have killed because of they'rer InAction.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Sorry DL but IMO Blind Freddy could see that the changes to tax laws under "the new tax system" legislation was only going to make the black economy bigger.

As the legislation only rebranded existing taxes and introduce a so called growth tax of the GST, which was hoping the End Customers would demand a valid tax invoice from their Suppliers so they can claim but any GST Credits they maybe entiled to. But if a Supplier said to a non registered (for GST) person or business "I can charge you either $110 for my service with an invoice or $100 without an invoice" I know which option many of use would take, as they are unable to claim any G Also the penalty for not properly recording the transaction is the Suppliers and not the Customer. The fact that a business has to ensure their Suppliers quotes an ABN before payment is made, was designed to ensure a proper paper trail exists but how many transaction are there that are either an exchange of service between business (I will do this for you if you do that for me) or dealing with non GST registered person or entities?

I did agree with Honest John over the changes to gun laws.

But after getting Australia involved in two wars I believe Honest John to be an truly evil person.

I wasn't very economically minded back then, or so intuitive to political spin & such. I was just learning to think. so very naive to all of those things, & was still getting used to losing my mum, then fiance`, then dad in the space of 2.5 years.

so I was only just managing.

a near breakdown around 2004, & a tough hard road back to climb up & since learning from all walks of life in that climb, from sports people, to artists, wilderness society, bush walkers, etc, I've had a fresh change of mind back to my heart felt stuff instead of my head felt stuff of the late 80's thru 90's.

I found the people & issues I value.

& a new-found faith in why life on this planet is.

# Oh, & I'm not into law, or even reading it, to try to understand those writings.

it was just a hope tht it would simplify the tax system & to help cleanup the black economy, & money laundering.

like the Pokies, I'd hoped they be given to not for profit sports clubs to help run the clubs & to supply cheap Meals & entertainment to the locals, & members of the clubs. but greed took the lot.

Unfortunately mates of pollies get the pickings, & leave the bones to be cleaned up by others..

Edited March 16, 2014 by dee-luded

[DemonFrog 1,347]

I wasn't very economically minded back then, or so intuitive to political spin & such. I was just learning to think. so very naive to all of those things, & was still getting used to losing my mum, then fiance`, then dad in the space of 2.5 years.

so I was only just managing.

a near breakdown around 2004, & a tough hard road back to climb up & since learning from all walks of life in that climb, from sports people, to artists, wilderness society, bush walkers, etc, I've had a fresh change of mind back to my heart felt stuff instead of my head felt stuff of the late 80's thru 90's.

I found the people & issues I value.

& a new-found faith in why life on this planet is.

# Oh, & I'm not into law, or even reading it, to try to understand those writings.

it was just a hope tht it would simplify the tax system & to help cleanup the black economy, & money laundering.

like the Pokies, I'd hoped they be given to not for profit sports clubs to help run the clubs & to supply cheap Meals & entertainment to the locals, & members of the clubs. but greed took the lot.

Unfortunately mates of pollies get the pickings, & leave the bones to be cleaned up by others..

You cleanly had a sad time back then. Hope things have really turned around for you now though.

Life can be both rewarding and cruel. But with every ending there is a new start / opportunity.

I to value the protect of the weak and disadvantaged as you do.

Thanks for sharing you story as it give me a better understand into your comments in this and other threads.

[dee-luded 2,958]

You cleanly had a sad time back then. Hope things have really turned around for you now though.

Life can be both rewarding and cruel. But with every ending there is a new start / opportunity.

I to value the protect of the weak and disadvantaged as you do.

Thanks for sharing you story as it give me a better understand into your comments in this and other threads.

still searching DF, geographically.

find the environment, then put down roots.

I think weak is the wrong term... I was emasculated from about age 4 by my older sister, but was of a nature to not think she was horrible. I just wondered why she wasn't nicer, & then as a kid, just blames himself. the damage was beginning to show by age 7, & continued to get worse, & turned into bullying by others everywhere.

Emasculated kids don't know how to defend themselves. they become a soft target.

But my mum, as soft & delicate and defenceless soul as she was, was a fighter... she caught Polio as an 8 Yr old. and was pushed about in a wheel-barrow, by her brothers, until teens, when fitted with callipers. One day a doctor told her to throw them away & learn to walk as she was.

I have her families DNA, & I have her nature. BUT I had to learn to defend myself on the streets, & on building sites. I learn't anger & bravado, & got strong. as defence. the nice choir boy type learnt some mongrel.

Abuse & bullying was rife until leaving school, worst between ages 8 - 13yrs. there was NO winning. anywhere. arrested development, I've now figured out, was my main detriment. but adult's can still learn to think, after losing enough anxiety to be able to function, & for the emotions to grow new ways, & the brain new neural networks. BUT the Social damage is virtually irreparable, & the physical arrested development of the brains social neural networks, are set, almost like concrete.

the social fear & corresponding defences, don't allow room for this area to regrow.

One has to be able to let down, 'ALL defences' , & submit to the world 'as a lamb' as it were; to be able to regrow this area. in this world today with the competitiveness & mean spirited-ness of so many, this lowering of shields, is so hard to do.

In hindsight if I was weak.... didn't have the drive to push thru the hard work of therapy, I would NOT have survived this. & so many poor souls do not.

I've almost lost the ability to find that soft kid within, in today's horrible world. the peoples meanness from being 'too competitive', is horrendous, unrecognisable from the 60's - 70's... and we as a people have lost Via this competitiveness, the ability to trust others, which in turn creates more intolerance & distrust.... this is the antichrist's ways... the breakdown of society's social values. the glue that helps us all.

.... this is where the so called good book is meant to be the glue. but so many leaders have become corrupted, causing the peoples of the world to lose faith, & look elsewhere, &/or run their own races.

Its become "game like"......

Decades of psycho analytical therapy, where the doctor became a mentor & teacher, & unleashed my brain from being frozen with fear & defensiveness... & to trust myself in what I think, & my decency, self-worth. I once put EVERYONE above myself... as these type kids do. (defeated) never learnt to be

So many people grow up with an attitude that life is a game, and then ruin other peoples lives in they're 'rolling of dice'... they're creation is misery for many others. & then wash away their guilt once a week.

I don't like Melbourne town anymore, as its became a torment; with the selfish attitudes everywhere, so I decided to move out. on my own. trying to rediscover the passions I burnt out from decades before.

its all a journey & an experience, but it's NOT a game. Only to the sick, is it a game.... that attitude is a cop-out, an excuse to pillage.

.

Edited March 17, 2014 by dee-luded

[nutbean 8,837]

I'm so relieved - George Brandis just told me it's ok to be a bigot !

Mods get ready - I'm about to cut loose .......................................................

[daisycutter 28,684]

I'm so relieved - George Brandis just told me it's ok to be a bigot !

Mods get ready - I'm about to cut loose .......................................................

lost interest in footy nut?

[nutbean 8,837]

lost interest in footy nut?

I'm multi tasking.

[daisycutter 28,684]

I'm multi tasking.

we need your full focus on footy

and politics is (marginally) more depressing than being a dees fan

[nutbean 8,837]

and politics is (marginally) more depressing than being a dees fan

That is a big call !

[P-man 13,277]

That is a big call !

Massive call. About on par for me at the moment.

[nutbean 8,837]

From now on I will be known as Sir Nutbean

[hardtack 10,149]

From now on I will be known as Sir Nutbean

Is it an insight into the man that he didn't run this past his own Cabinet?

[nutbean 8,837]

Is it an insight into the man that he didn't run this past his own Cabinet?

He ran it past Christopher Pyne didn't he ? ( I read he had advised the Queen).

Ok - cheap shot, uneccessary, in poor taste and beneath me. I apologise for the post and it was uncalled for but I was just getting in practice for when 18c goes.

[daisycutter 28,684]

Is it an insight into the man that he didn't run this past his own Cabinet?

they didn't in medieval times either, hardtack

back to the future (or should that be forward to the past)

what next? barons, earls, dukes, marquesses, viscounts anyone? bring it on

[hardtack 10,149]

they didn't in medieval times either, hardtack

back to the future (or should that be forward to the past)

what next? barons, earls, dukes, marquesses, viscounts anyone? bring it on

And courtesy of Channel 10 news, Tony caught on a visit to our rural communities:

[daisycutter 28,684]

mind you hardtack if PR can bring home a flag i'd be happy for him to be knighted. i'll even supply the coconuts