Jim Stynes will always be remembered as a hero and champion of both the MFC and mankind, but that still does not exclude him from warranted criticism. He was after all........human, and even he made mistakes.

Blaspheme i know, but the truth hurts sometimes.

Wrong, second worst. Paul Gardner (President 2003-08) was the worst.

In less than 6 years, four incompetent administrators have single-handedly jeopardised 155 years of tradition and brought our Club, the oldest football Club in the World, to its knees: Gardner, Steve Harris (CEO 2004-08), Don McLardy (President 2012-13) and Cameron Schwab (CEO 2008-13).

And of course Garry Lyon has had a hand in our downfall too as he was on the coaching sub-committees that appointed Neeld in 2011 and Dean Bailey in 2007. Lyon was also the poisonous snake who, along with Ian Ridley, Hassa Mann and Bill Guest, voted in favour of the merger with Hawthorn back in 1996.

No he wasn't - not by a long shot. I'm not sure you realise just how bad we are and how many decisions the board has made that has directly contributed to it. Not indirectly. Not incidentally.

Worst board in our history.

Speaking the truth with respect and grace does no discredit to anyone, regardless of who they are. In hindsight it appears that what Jimmy started became the problem. We all love him like we love no other but the sad state of things now shouldn't make him a sacred cow that cannot be mentioned or scrutinised. The failed McLardy board is in reality the failed Stynes board, and we have no way of knowing if it would have succeeded had the great man survived. We simply have what we have.

To Maldon and Pennent, I think this issue is a really difficult one - particularly in the graceless and nasty world of anonymous internet debate.

FWIW, I think it is well worth discussing and the tone and grace of the participants is as important, if not more so, than the content and topic. So go for it - you two would do it well.

Thanks for stepping in for Jimmy Big Don

To Maldon and Pennent, I think this issue is a really difficult one - particularly in the graceless and nasty world of anonymous internet debate.

FWIW, I think it is well worth discussing and the tone and grace of the participants is as important, if not more so, than the content and topic. So go for it - you two would do it well.

Its true as supporters of the MFC we are making judgements about the Club without all the facts.

However to me its about the final result that important. That is clear for everyone to see.

Therefore the question is who is responsible for the poor showing of the Club and when can they be replaced.

Go forth Peter Jackson and weed out those who are not up to the task, the sooner the better.

As I would only have another fourty or so years left to see the MFC win its 13th Premiership, so time is ticking.

MMM saying neeld will be gone around round 17.

Didn't they also report that was gone on the Monday following the Hawks game ...

Give the anti Schwab vitriol a rest, he's not the only one to blame for the mess we are in.

To anyone aiming vitril toward DOn i say leave the guy alone, he did the best he could and poured a lot of his hard earned money into the club and dont forget that Presidents dont get paid a cent for their work.

Aim you venom toward Cameron Schwab, that snake is the one that ruined us.

No he wasn't - not by a long shot. I'm not sure you realise just how bad we are and how many decisions the board has made that has directly contributed to it. Not indirectly. Not incidentally.

Worst board in our history.

The failure of this Board to do its job is not for me to point out - it is there for all to see with its leaders gone and the Boards renewal happening as we speak.

But are the decisions of this Board wholly the reason we are in this mire?

I don't want to defend or shift blame but merely point out that 'blame' can be widely apportioned to Demons in our recent history as to make it irrelevant.

The points of reference of blame for our:

List

The picks lost in 1999 and 2000 for salary cap cheating.

Daniher trading away picks for experienced players like Pickett, Holland, and Johnson.

Terrible drafting in 2007-2009.

Finances

Upping the FD spending that has put us in our current predicament, and The Fine, and the future 'paying out' is on their shoulders. However, they were able to help the supporters come together and get rid of debt and purchase an asset in Brighton worth quite a bit of money. But this Board did wipe out the failure of previous Boards to rid the club of that debt.

Coaching Failures

Bailey in 07 and Neeld in 11 have been failures but they have also had to work with a list that has got steadily worse (and they may well have contributed to that). Daniher will have to take some for the list management decisions above.

Culture

I suspect you are talking about this more than anything to do with performance: the hiring of perceived friends at CEO (CC's hiring was the previous Board), the involvement of the Consultant Lyon who wilfully refuses to take responsibility, the lax process involved in the hiring of Neeld, and the handling of The Tanking Saga.

You can think that this is The Worst Board in History if you want to, but that does not mean that they are the reason for why we are as bad as we are. Their time has been marred but these Demons do not leave the club in a worse state than they found it.

I say this, again, not to defend them - but to point out that this Board leaving will not solve our issues. We are a drain on the the AFL right now because of our performances and that comes down to the state of our list, a list shredded and abused and not replenished properly since Daniher.

I think that is why Jackson says that managing the list is the most important job at an AFL club.

Miles to go before we sleep.

Hello all,

Over the last few weeks and months I have been reading a lot of posts on demon land about our current and former CEO's and president. Posters have been detailing their thoughts on who should be the next president, from Greg Wells to JK to the Ox etc. etc.

Is there anyone who can actually define for me the actual role of a president (in the AFL context), what do they actually do, IE try to get sponsorship etc. Also what does the CEO actually do?

It seems to me that it is vitally important to get a president and CEO that because of their business backgrounds, contacts or whatever it takes to fit the actual position. Is it important that they are ex footballers or is that not a prerequisite ?

Sorry if these questions have obvious answers, it is not clear to me however.

Regards

I don't think it's clear to most of us either 'ihatesnakes', but some here seem to think the President needs to have some kind of brand name/profile in the market.

Don't know why to be honest ...

Well done Don for orchestrated the most noble, chivalrous and altruistic move in recent MFC history. We had no resources, no money, no hope; after Don's sacrifice we now have everything we want direct from the AFL.

A wise man indeed.

To Maldon and Pennent, I think this issue is a really difficult one - particularly in the graceless and nasty world of anonymous internet debate.

FWIW, I think it is well worth discussing and the tone and grace of the participants is as important, if not more so, than the content and topic. So go for it - you two would do it well.

I love Jimmy and everything he did for the club and us as supporters, when Jimmy got sick it prevented him from finishing what he started. The big fella was a unique individual and I have no doubt he would have succeeded as he would have done whatever it took. I accept he is not exempt from criticism but board ceased to be his once he became ill and had his mind focussed on getting well, embarrassingly for the club we used Jimmy as a public face and figurehead, culminating in him appearing at the press conference to announce Bailey's sacking.

Maybe it was his aura but the board should have stepped in and said Jimmy go away get yourself better & leave the running of the club to us, by all means attend games come to the club whenever you wish but we really need you to concentrate your energies on your health. Jimmy became a white elephant and IMO those in positions of power at the club failed to show leadership in making that call.

The 186 decision was made in panic and the outcome in the end was wrong, CS should have went and whilst Bailey should also have been shown the door, I think the end of 2011 may have been more appropriate and the correct selection process for a successor should have been put in place. So IMO Jimmy was in no fit state to be involved in these decisions in anyway and the board at the time needed to make the tough call.

As far as I am concerned without Jimmy and his efforts along with others during debt demolition we would have either merged or been moved, I thank him for that and to me that is his legacy to the club. There are others I hold responsible for the aftermath of 186 and where it sees us today. It is time for the club to stop making panic decisions and not react to media driven causes. On the face of it PJ appears to be doing this now, may it last and may we do our due diligence in selecting a new president & board, who must then leave no stone unturned to get the best coach (contracted or uncontracted make it happen) and have a succession plan in place to bring this club forward

Red & Blue forever

I think Don showed that we all have stations in life and jobs we are suited to. I don't believe he was suited to be MFC president. He probably didn't want to be MFC president either. It was forced upon him.
As for discussion of Jimmy's role in all of this....

I viewed the Stynes board as similar to a game of pick up sticks and Jimmy was one of the bottom sticks holding the base together. Remove that and a lot of what the board was fell to pieces. Jimmy did have a great ability to unite people and he did know AFL. While Don means well and has been a tireless worker, before he joined the Melbourne board and gained the presidency, his profile wasn't as high as Jim's. Jim did have that great ability to unite people (Debt Demoliton, getting old stagers back to the club, raising membership close to the 40k mark) and when he left, it was like Tito's Yugoslavia. There was no-one there to fill his shoes.

It could also be argued as well that part of the board's downfall came when 'Cell left after the Andrews Report was buried. When Jim really began to struggle, it was when he was also holding a review into the football department. That was Leoncelli's role before he walked away. I think where Jim can be faulted to an extent (can we use that word? The price he probably paid in the long run for keeping up such a hectic schedule was greater than what our implosion has bought to supporters) is that he did continue on in his review of the Football Department while battling terminal illness. I don't think it did him any good or the club any good. Being a proud and competitive man, he probably thought he was up to it but as he admitted himself, he wasn't.

I also think where he can be faulted is that, intentionally or not, he reintroduced Hollywood Boulevarde back at the club albeit this time at admin. level. I think he realized much too late that CS was playing funny buggers in the football department and had to be removed. Hindsight is great and plenty of people are against things only after they have gone bad but he did say that he wanted both Schwab and Bailey gone. He was overruled by the board (though he wouldn't put it that way). However, he went straight back to the well and ended up with Gaz, CS and Don back selecting the coach. Emotions were probably running high at the time (186 and Jimmy's illness key causes in this) and clear, deliberate thinking were in short supply but if you took away the illness and the thrashing at SS, you would say that coach selection panel reeked of cronyism. In hindsight, he probably should have stepped down from the football review and asked the club to go look for a footy manager to sort out the mess (though would anyone would have wanted that job?). Garry faced huge conflicts of interest that he wasn't able to overcome (Schwab got a naughty naughty speech and was left to act as he did before and Cuddles was moved sideways) in that he was asked to assess two of his best mates and he probably shouldn't have taken on the job (yet again, how hard is it to say no to a mate who is dying? I wouldn't want to face up to that).

That's my 2 cents.

I love Jimmy and everything he did for the club and us as supporters, when Jimmy got sick it prevented him from finishing what he started. The big fella was a unique individual and I have no doubt he would have succeeded as he would have done whatever it took. I accept he is not exempt from criticism but board ceased to be his once he became ill and had his mind focussed on getting well, embarrassingly for the club we used Jimmy as a public face and figurehead, culminating in him appearing at the press conference to announce Bailey's sacking.

A day of contrasting emotions:

1) Sadness: Seeing Jimmy as sick as he was and seeing him carrying the can when he was in no fit state to do so made me sad.

2) Anger: Seeing Dean Bailey sit in front of a blank wall in a non club issue suit with CS, CC and Jim out of the room made me furious. Sure he needed to go but he was now being treated like a non person. Never again can we treat club employees in that manner.

It was just so infuriatingly amateur.

Hello all,

Over the last few weeks and months I have been reading a lot of posts on demon land about our current and former CEO's and president. Posters have been detailing their thoughts on who should be the next president, from Greg Wells to JK to the Ox etc. etc.

Is there anyone who can actually define for me the actual role of a president (in the AFL context), what do they actually do, IE try to get sponsorship etc. Also what does the CEO actually do?

It seems to me that it is vitally important to get a president and CEO that because of their business backgrounds, contacts or whatever it takes to fit the actual position. Is it important that they are ex footballers or is that not a prerequisite ?

Sorry if these questions have obvious answers, it is not clear to me however.

Regards

Not sure about all the roles the President and CEO perform do but I know McLardy and Schwab were both on the coaching sub-committee in 2011 who, along with Garry "I take no responsibility" Lyon, decided to appoint yet another rookie nobody to coach the MFC. Gardner and Harris did exactly the same thing in 2007:

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/sheedy-spotted-demons-at-melbourne-20121102-28pk5.html

What I would like to know is:

1. What would McLardy, Gardner, Harris and Schwab know about coaching a football Club? How the [censored] are they qualified to appoint someone for the most important job at a football Club?

2. Why would Garry Lyon be allowed to bully his way on to yet another coaching sub-committee in 2011 after being part of the disastrous sub-committees who choose Dean Bailey in 2007 (MFC) and Peter Rhode in 2002 (Bulldogs)? Not to mention that he is an absolute scumbag who voted in favour of the merger with the Hawks back in 1996.

3. How the [censored] is Mark "It is what it is" Neeld still in the top job??????

2. Why would Garry Lyon be allowed to bully his way on to yet another coaching sub-committee in 2011 after being part of the disastrous sub-committees who choose Dean Bailey in 2007 (MFC) and Peter Rhode in 2002 (Bulldogs)?

Was he really on the Bulldogs coaching committee that hired Rhode?

You want to know who is the best President? The one who never makes mistakes. Every decision is the correct one.

You want to know who is the best President? The one who never makes mistakes. Every decision is the correct one.

Don't think JC is available at present.

Might have to go for a mortal do you think?

Not sure about all the roles the President and CEO perform do but I know McLardy and Schwab were both on the coaching sub-committee in 2011 who, along with Garry "I take no responsibility" Lyon, decided to appoint yet another rookie nobody to coach the MFC. Gardner and Harris did exactly the same thing in 2007:

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/sheedy-spotted-demons-at-melbourne-20121102-28pk5.html

What I would like to know is:

1. What would McLardy, Gardner, Harris and Schwab know about coaching a football Club? How the [censored] are they qualified to appoint someone for the most important job at a football Club?

2. Why would Garry Lyon be allowed to bully his way on to yet another coaching sub-committee in 2011 after being part of the disastrous sub-committees who choose Dean Bailey in 2007 (MFC) and Peter Rhode in 2002 (Bulldogs)? Not to mention that he is an absolute scumbag who voted in favour of the merger with the Hawks back in 1996.

3. How the [censored] is Mark "It is what it is" Neeld still in the top job??????

1) Surprisingly enough. I agree with that point to an extent. Though Harris and Gardner did have Bob Walls, Nathan Burke and Gaz on that subcommittee that selected Dean Bailey. Garry, Schwab and McLardy needed to be on the sub-committee to pick a new coach. The bigger scandal was that they had no outsiders, experts or HRM people involved and that the choice of Neeld seemed to validate a lot of Schwab's criticisms of Bailey.

2) Scumbag? Pull your head in. Garry, while he needed to decide if he was going to be a media commentator or football powerbroker (a choice he has clearly made now), gave a lot to our club as a player. He didn't openly support the merger either. He said he would leave these decisions in the hands of football people but that didn't necessarily mean he was jumping up and down at the prospect of a merger.

Your overkill and inability to stick to facts kill your argument.

3) I don't want Neeld there beyond 2013 but there is a process in place. Let's see that through and not repeat the mistakes of 2011 by being reactive in the extreme.

I don't know if Don told the AFL that he was resigning or the AFL told Don he was resigning .We never had a realistic chance to go forward this year because our preseason was dominated by the indescribably unjust single club tanking enquiry .We were seen as a soft target for the AFL to mollify the press .Don certainly did a lot less to hurt this club than Brock Mclean .

I know Don gave his all and I thank him for his efforts and wish him all the best

Was he really on the Bulldogs coaching committee that hired Rhode?

I think he endorsed Rohde, I don't believe there was a sub committee at the 'Dogs as they were looking to save money and cut corners (one of the reasons Plough left besides him wanting to pad his bank balance).

Luckily I'm in bali. Just re-read big Jimma's book. 2 things struck me while reading it a second time. As sick as he was, jimmy insisted he front the media to announce Bailey,s sacking. He was not left to carry the can. 2nd was Schwab's flagrant disregard of Jimmy's istruction to fix the football department. Jimmy wanted Schwab gone, as well as Bailey, but was out voted by the board

Sure, Jimmy was human and had his failings. But he had passion and commitment to the MFC. While sadness welled inside me as I finished the book, that emotion was replaced by anger, just thinking how his memory could be so dishonoured by the current mess and those responsible

A disgrace really.

Jimmy will always be an icon. I have no doubt. Those who outvoted him to reinstate Schwab in 2011 are the ones i want off the board.

People have had a go at me many times for continually bringing up 186. Well now you know why. CS was given another 18 months to run a muck.

Cameron you are a charming man to speak to but do not ever be involved at this club again.

Luckily I'm in bali. Just re-read big Jimma's book. 2 things struck me while reading it a second time. As sick as he was, jimmy insisted he front the media to announce Bailey,s sacking. He was not left to carry the can. 2nd was Schwab's flagrant disregard of Jimmy's istruction to fix the football department. Jimmy wanted Schwab gone, as well as Bailey, but was out voted by the board

Sure, Jimmy was human and had his failings. But he had passion and commitment to the MFC. While sadness welled inside me as I finished the book, that emotion was replaced by anger, just thinking how his memory could be so dishonoured by the current mess and those responsible

A disgrace really.

To be honest, that may have tied into what I wrote earlier. He probably shouldn't have stepped forward at that press conference, no matter how much he wanted to. Stress has a bad effect on the body. Imagine how bad it must have been when you are in the advanced stages of cancer. It was sad whatever way you look at it.

I agree on the passion part but I think he worked out too late that having your mates in high places, even though you think you know them pretty well, can work out disastrously. Schwab only came back on his recommendation. That should also be mentioned when talking about Jimmy wanting Schwab sacked.

On the whole, I think his positives well outweighed his negatives but some of the misfires of that era are still haunting us today.