Rookie elevation for Tom Couch & James Magner in this years draft?

[P-man 13,366]

They could not possibly be doing more than they currently are to earn a spot.

How the hell can anyone turn their noses down at two "VFL standard" players who are smashing up oppositions every week with 40+ possession games? Not good enough for OUR midfield? Really?

Mags should never have been dropped. Bloody stupid.

[CHAMP 347]

I expect both to be delisted at the end of the year and mature age midfield replacements brought onto the rookie list at seasons end. eg Adam Cockie & Myles Sewell.

But that's just my train of thought.

Cockie showed nothing with West Coast that would put him ahead of Magner. Neither ahead of him at VFL level.

Sewell trained with North, big deal, and GWS once might have Rookied him (but didn't).

Pass on both thanks.

[titan_uranus 25,045]

I'd be very surprised to see either of them on the list next year. Both of them play VFL style games rather than AFL. Neither of them have the speed nor are they damaging enough.

We can't know this until we give them a shot. Couch has had three games. His form in the VFL now is better than what it was last year when he got the call up. He deserves another shot, to see if he can bring that form to the AFL.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I'd be very surprised to see either of them on the list next year. Both of them play VFL style games rather than AFL. Neither of them have the speed nor are they damaging enough.

Clisby, on the other hand, is an interesting prospect if he can defend well enough.

Agree Bob. Classic tweeters that are look good at VFL but aren't good enough or quick enough for AFL.

[Dee man 303]

Would not be surprised at all if we delisted them at season's end and another team picked them up and turn them into AFL regulars.

[Demoneyes 562]

It is worh noting people that they can't be elevated unless we suffer a long term injury of 8 weeks or more! Magner is the nominated elevation at the moment.

[rpfc 28,782]

It is worh noting people that they can't be elevated unless we suffer a long term injury of 8 weeks or more! Magner is the nominated elevation at the moment.

It's also worth noting that you can elevate a Rookie after Rd 11 without a LTI.

[TheoX 1,222]

Magner yes, Couch: hell no.

[Demoneyes 562]

It's also worth noting that you can elevate a Rookie after Rd 11 without a LTI.

Thanks for that extra bit of info! In that case they may as well elevate him. Give him a go for a few games and see if he comes up to expectations? If not we can say we tried!

[Swampfox 190]

What supporters need to understand is not every player makes the AFL

Couch is on a similar level to Shane Valenti

If we are serious about building a list to climb the ladder then Magner IMO is not the future

Clisby and Stark are unknown at AFL level and should be given every chance

[Weedster 174]

They could not possibly be doing more than they currently are to earn a spot.

How the hell can anyone turn their noses down at two "VFL standard" players who are smashing up oppositions every week with 40+ possession games? Not good enough for OUR midfield? Really?

Mags should never have been dropped. Bloody stupid.

FWIW I think it plants the seed of discontent when consistently strong performances go unrecognised, particularly when we are getting consistently flogged, and our lack of midfield competitiveness is universally agreed.

[P-man 13,366]

What supporters need to understand is not every player makes the AFL

Couch is on a similar level to Shane Valenti

If we are serious about building a list to climb the ladder then Magner IMO is not the future

Clisby and Stark are unknown at AFL level and should be given every chance

Tom Couch has played three AFL games.

So...that's it then? He's done his dash to prove his worth at AFL level? Bollocks. Give the guy a proper chance. Admittedly turnovers were the major cause of pain on the weekend, but let's not pretend we don't still have major issues getting our hands on it in the first place.

As for Magner, he has been admirable when he's placed in the guts. He is ferocious, and by god do we need a bit of that. Sure, he won't be a part of any Melbourne premiership side, but you could provide a far worse example of work ethic to the youngsters than James Magner.

[McQueen 17,867]

Magner yes, Couch: hell no.

What is the massive difference between the two you're inferring by saying "hell no!"

Personally, I don't believe there's much difference at all in the style of play or the roles that they would be undertaking in the 1st's. I believe it would be fair to say that Magner showed a little more that Couch did earlier on and scored the elevation from Gawns knee last year. It could've easily gone the other way.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

They are both VFL standard players who were brought in as harder bodies who could win contested ball to add some depth to our rubbish midfield.

One will be gone be the end of the season if we have a successful free agency period and bring in a couple of quality mids.

The other should be gone the year after.

[MadAsHell 4,215]

So we replace two kids who can't get a game with two other kids who won't get a game.

Cockie showed nothing with West Coast that would put him ahead of Magner. Neither ahead of him at VFL level.

Sewell trained with North, big deal, and GWS once might have Rookied him (but didn't).

Pass on both thanks.

Magner and Couch were both recruited to add midfield depth while we built our list and now that 2 years on the rookie list is up there's every chance they'll look to replace them with others players to continue to add to that depth.

Cockie is in Sandringham's best every week and Sewell along with being a good clearnace player can play as a tagger and covers the ground better then both Magner and Couch. Not saying they're stars but they're the type of player I reckon will be looked at for midfield depth.

[Clintosaurus 7,874]

Good OP Benson but I suspect as hogans_heroes said it will be up to the new coach, as like most on here I think this will happen. Watts, Gawn and Sylvia will be the focus of PJ as far as retention goes and I would think anyone else out of contract will have to wait for news on the coaching front as to whether they get offered new contracts.

I like both of Magner and Couch but their apparent/actual lack of pace does not help them. That said I think both of them should get an extended run in the team at the expense of some of the clanger merchants we seem to have a few of. How would Couch go as a tagger?

[Little Richard 6,265]

I'm not sure how people can be saying Magner is just a plodder.

In his two games this year he averaged 20.5 disposals and 6 tackles, playing in the middle where he belongs.

Last season he averaged 14.8 disposals and 4.5 tackles, however it must be noted that he dominated the first couple of games in the midfield then for some reason Neeld tried to turn him into a defensive forward.

Couch I am willing to revise my opinion on - in 3 games he only averaged 11 disposals (though averaged 5 tackles). However he deserves to be promoted in the second half of the year on the back of some seriously good form in the seconds.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

I honestly can't decide. In the short term I think they would both strengthen the midfield, but I can't see that much long-term for them. They are both just a little bit off what we need to be a really good side. Bringing them in for the second half of the year would give us more ball-winning in the middle, but less pace and run. This is one I'll happily leave to the list managers to decide.

Less pace and run than McKenzie and Tappy you mean? Both would lose McKenzie in an instant, and not just because they're half a yard quicker, albeit still slow by AFL standards.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Rusty Nails

[ThreeOneSix 954]

We are lacking midfielders and have Couch and Magner in the VFL, great coaching.

40 plus possessions and either lad won't get a look in, only at MFC.

[CHAMP 347]

Magner and Couch were both recruited to add midfield depth while we built our list and now that 2 years on the rookie list is up there's every chance they'll look to replace them with others players to continue to add to that depth.

Cockie is in Sandringham's best every week and Sewell along with being a good clearnace player can play as a tagger and covers the ground better then both Magner and Couch. Not saying they're stars but they're the type of player I reckon will be looked at for midfield depth.

Keep thinking

[DeeSpencer 26,084]

We are lacking midfielders and have Couch and Magner in the VFL, great coaching.

40 plus possessions and either lad won't get a look in, only at MFC.

Actually you will find a lot of clubs have these types of players in their reserves. Kyle Martin had 37 touches and 6 goals until he was elevated. Bradd Dalziel racks them up every week at West Coast as does Mark Hutchins.

Magner should be playing, that much is obvious to me. Lets give him an extended run to see if he can step up a level. Forget about Rodan and go with Magner. But I don't want to have Couch and Magner in the same AFL team because we effectively are developing 2 players for one spot as backup inside mid. So after Magner has his turn then go with Couch. At the end of the year have a look at whether they look good enough or not.

Our real (inside) midfield of the future at the moment is Jones, Trengove, McKenzie and Viney. Possibly with Sylvia. Those 5 need to be playing every week. We also have to be Howe, Evans, Matt Jones, Toumpas (if in form) as outside mids of the future.

The reason we are all so keen on Magner and Couch is because we don't have any other decent young mids playing in the guts for Casey week after week. Look at Carlton- their VFL midfield often features Tom Bell, Cachia, Ellard, Dylan Buckley. They might not have the consistency of Magner and Couch but they also perform very well in the VFL. With this years list changes we need to make sure that our VFL midfield is replenished with guys who will play AFL midfield down the track. Taggert, Toumpas, Jetta, Stark, Barry should be the Casey midfield not Rodan, Magner and Couch.

[titan_uranus 25,045]

If we're prepared to play McKenzie and Tapscott in one side, then we should be equally prepared to play Couch and Magner in one side. Neither Tapscott nor McKenzie is giving us anything at the moment, and they're both what you'd call slow, grunt midfielders.

Our real (inside) midfield of the future at the moment is Jones, Trengove, McKenzie and Viney. Possibly with Sylvia. Those 5 need to be playing every week. We also have to be Howe, Evans, Matt Jones, Toumpas (if in form) as outside mids of the future.

I don't think McKenzie is part of our future. He gives us nothing offensively and at the moment is just so-so in his tagging jobs (I believe he was on Sidebottom who wasn't as productive as usual, but I'm not sure). At any rate, even if he is shutting players down, I feel that Magner/Couch could do that role and be more productive with ball in hand, at the very least.

[GIRO 63]

Both are good vfl players not up to afl standards that's it wouldn't keep them beyond this year

[P-man 13,366]

I am somewhat amazed that even in our current state, this habit of pigeon holing players as being "VFL standard" persists.

On current form, Couch and Magner should both be inclusions. There is simply nothing to lose and everything to gain by playing them.

[DeeSpencer 26,084]

If we're prepared to play McKenzie and Tapscott in one side, then we should be equally prepared to play Couch and Magner in one side. Neither Tapscott nor McKenzie is giving us anything at the moment, and they're both what you'd call slow, grunt midfielders.

I don't think McKenzie is part of our future. He gives us nothing offensively and at the moment is just so-so in his tagging jobs (I believe he was on Sidebottom who wasn't as productive as usual, but I'm not sure). At any rate, even if he is shutting players down, I feel that Magner/Couch could do that role and be more productive with ball in hand, at the very least.

Tapscott (who has been sub the last 2 weeks which makes it somewhat irrelevant) is playing as a half forward. I doubt Couch or Magner could play the role any better than him and I certainly think Tapscott has more potential in this position.

McKenzie is tagging and I'm not sure how many he had in the first half but Sidebottom finished with 19 disposals which to me indicates McKenzie is doing his job. McKenzie also managed 18 of his own disposals. I know a half fit McKenzie in a VFL practice match at the start of this year got just as many disposals as Couch and Magner.

Couch is 2 years older and 9cm shorter than McKenzie. Magner 3 years older and 5cm shorter than McKenzie. Now I know height isn't an important part of being a midfielder but it's also a scope thing. The simple fact is that if one of those guys is tagging a David Mundy or a Jobe Watson and they push forward and go for a mark they will find it very hard to spoil him.

Really what my point is that McKenzie has played so good quality games for us and has incredibly discipline and drive. I think that makes him a better player than these two.

Considering the results we are getting I'd certainly send McKenzie back to the reserves for a week at some point to focus his attacking skills but I'd play Magner as a ball winning midfielder and put the defensive time in to Trengove/Sylvia/Blease maybe even Tapscott. But for our next game I'd be sending McKenzie straight to Dal Santo and not changing things.