On The Couch - 13 May

[Fat Tony 4,436]

While Roos was a great coach, he had a pretty handy side and the advantage of an oversized salary cap. Even if Roos did change his mind he would cost big dollars, which we don’t have.

We would be better off going for someone who has either had a turn elsewhere but is not in high demand (i.e. Ratten, Williams, Voss or Eade etc.) or an untried assistant and then spending the extra money boosting the recruiting department.

[Ted Lasso 16,821]

While Roos was a great coach, he had a pretty handy side and the advantage of an oversized salary cap. Even if Roos did change his mind he would cost big dollars, which we don’t have.

We would be better off going for someone who has either had a turn elsewhere but is not in high demand (i.e. Ratten, Williams, Voss or Eade etc.) or an untried assistant and then spending the extra money boosting the recruiting department.

Voss maybe as a midfield coach, and Williams as a senior coach, personally i'd rather Roo's, he was a big part in building the swans culture, that's what we're working at.

[Tricky 337]

While Roos was a great coach, he had a pretty handy side and the advantage of an oversized salary cap. Even if Roos did change his mind he would cost big dollars, which we don’t have.

We would be better off going for someone who has either had a turn elsewhere but is not in high demand (i.e. Ratten, Williams, Voss or Eade etc.) or an untried assistant and then spending the extra money boosting the recruiting department.

You would entertain hiring a third consecutive untried assistant after (what would be) 2 colossal failures?

Seems like absolute lunacy to me FT - might as well get GLyon to pick him for us....

[Roost It 1,434]

There is a realistic chance that Roos will coach Melbourne next season. I am aware of "sounding out" discussions with our club (directly from board member).

It means absolutely nothing that Roos denies or semi denies. Roos and the MFC must deny such contact as Melbourne currently has a coach in contract until the end of 2014. All parties simply have no choice but to deny.

This situation reminds me of Malthouse and Carlton last season. Malthouse denied interest and denied contact and discussions with Carlton, but never absolutely closed the door on the possibility. Just like Roos has done. It is now common knowledge in the football community that Malthouse agreed to terms with Carlton around mid-season while Ratten was still coach. All at Melbourne have their fingers crossed that one way or anther Roos takes up the challenge and saves our club.

So we get Roos, pick 1 or 2 and picks 18 and 19(should we get a priority), Hogan, Toumpas(a year older and fitter) and possibly Barry(a year older and fitter.

Clark gets a full presaeson as does Trengove and Grimes.

All of a sudden we start to win games and we all fawn over Roos.

Neeld has had to deal with a dead President and now an incompetant one, a CEO who has now been sacked for utter incompetence, tanking, drugs and the constant and ferocious glare of the media. On top of this his 2 captains are injured along with his key forwards. Yet we all expect him to drive us up the ladder. Talk about dreaming.

Roos ain't the Messiah, we are on the path to improvement.

Oh and another thing I bet if all AFL players spoke honestly about their coach they'd be many who have plenty of derogatory things to say. Winning fixes the problem. It will start happening next year regardless of who is coach. Our list isn't the tragedy many think it is.

[jazza 1,323]

So we get Roos, pick 1 or 2 and picks 18 and 19(should we get a priority), Hogan, Toumpas(a year older and fitter) and possibly Barry(a year older and fitter.

Clark gets a full presaeson as does Trengove and Grimes.

All of a sudden we start to win games and we all fawn over Roos.

Neeld has had to deal with a dead President and now an incompetant one, a CEO who has now been sacked for utter incompetence, tanking, drugs and the constant and ferocious glare of the media. On top of this his 2 captains are injured along with his key forwards. Yet we all expect him to drive us up the ladder. Talk about dreaming.

Roos ain't the Messiah, we are on the path to improvement.

Oh and another thing I bet if all AFL players spoke honestly about their coach they'd be many who have plenty of derogatory things to say. Winning fixes the problem. It will start happening next year regardless of who is coach. Our list isn't the tragedy many think it is.

thanks mate,

couldnt write good enough, great post .glad somebody understands the situation

[Fat Tony 4,436]

Voss maybe as a midfield coach, and Williams as a senior coach, personally i'd rather Roo's, he was a big part in building the swans culture, that's what we're working at.

I like Williams the most out of my list too. But I wouldn't rule out Voss or Ratten purely based on their records. Voss got the job at Brisbane at a difficult juncture given his best players were at the back end of their careers and so he made a decision to recruit for a flag. It may have been a long shot, but what was the alternative? Hold steady and decline of like St Kilda? Or trade out big names Brown and Black for draft picks like Hawthorn did with Thompson and Hay? Voss would have the respect of the players which is obviously important and recruiting decisions should not be the coach’s anyhow IMO. Ratten also got the Carlton job at a difficult time and would have been given another chance if Carlton weren’t such an impatient club.

Obviously you want a balance but IMO a more attacking coach would be preferable. Geelong is the most successful side in recent history and we should look to the way they play. Not only is it exciting, but it gives you the greatest chance to win flags IMO.

You would entertain hiring a third consecutive untried assistant after (what would be) 2 colossal failures?

Seems like absolute lunacy to me FT - might as well get GLyon to pick him for us....

We shouldn’t be afraid of a first time coach. Nine out of the last eleven premiership coaches were untried when they got the job. And recycled coaches can also turn out badly. Look at Wallace, Blight, Barassi and Judge. And third time lucky for Lyon?

[bing181 8,169]

GLyon spoke to RLyons manager and not RLyon himself

As you would.

[bing181 8,169]

You would entertain hiring a third consecutive untried assistant after (what would be) 2 colossal failures?

Seems like absolute lunacy to me FT - might as well get GLyon to pick him for us....

Have a look at the ladder. The top 5 teams are all coached by "untried assistants" - and one of those wasn't even an assistant, untried or not.

[stuie 7,374]

Have a look at the ladder. The top 5 teams are all coached by "untried assistants" - and one of those wasn't even an assistant, untried or not.

And how many of those 5 were as bad as us when the "untried assistant" took over? Geelong? Sydney? Hawthorn?

But I guess what you're saying is that ALL untried assistants must be good. Great logic.

[rjay 23,923]

As you would.

Obviously Freo wouldn't.

[T-34 409]

And how many of those 5 were as bad as us when the "untried assistant" took over? Geelong? Sydney? Hawthorn?

But I guess what you're saying is that ALL untried assistants must be good. Great logic.

So by using the same logic does that mean all experienced coaches will succeed?

Of course not, personally don't care if they are experienced or not, what I do care about is getting the selection process correct, as opposed to the last two.Get that right and we should get the right man, stuff it up and we get the last 6 years continuing.

[DeeSpencer 23,187]

So we get Roos, pick 1 or 2 and picks 18 and 19(should we get a priority), Hogan, Toumpas(a year older and fitter) and possibly Barry(a year older and fitter.

Clark gets a full presaeson as does Trengove and Grimes.

All of a sudden we start to win games and we all fawn over Roos.

Neeld has had to deal with a dead President and now an incompetant one, a CEO who has now been sacked for utter incompetence, tanking, drugs and the constant and ferocious glare of the media. On top of this his 2 captains are injured along with his key forwards. Yet we all expect him to drive us up the ladder. Talk about dreaming.

Roos ain't the Messiah, we are on the path to improvement.

Oh and another thing I bet if all AFL players spoke honestly about their coach they'd be many who have plenty of derogatory things to say. Winning fixes the problem. It will start happening next year regardless of who is coach. Our list isn't the tragedy many think it is.

Here's the problem. We had a whole bunch of issues last year (half of above) and had all preseason and some agressive list management and come off worse.

How can you say with any confidence that Neeld will make us win next year. He's won 1 game so far that I count which was against a poor kicking Essendon.

We sucked before the two Jacks and Clark were injured (yes I know they came off interrupted preseasons) but injuries are part of the game.

Freo had no Pav, no Sandilands, no Fyfe and embarrased Gold Coast on the road. No doubt Freo are a good side but then Gold Coast destroy us. So not only are we worse than bad we are a whole new category.

Say we get a proper CEO and restructure the footy department at the end of the day Neeld is still teaching these guys how to play and he's doing it horribly. The bulldogs aren't winning games but they are playing a consistent style and having a go. Are we so terrible that we can't stand for anything as a team. Neeld wanted us to be the hardest to play against so where is any reflection of that? If we won the tackle count each week or the contested ball or anything I'd understand. Or if we played the kids and said goodbye to those who weren't ever going to make it I'd understand. But right now Neeld hasn't done a thing to save his job.

[stuie 7,374]

So by using the same logic does that mean all experienced coaches will succeed?

Of course not, personally don't care if they are experienced or not, what I do care about is getting the selection process correct, as opposed to the last two.Get that right and we should get the right man, stuff it up and we get the last 6 years continuing.

I think the clubs needs dictate the type of coach they should for. IMO it would be supremely silly to not go after an experienced coach as our next appointment. That seems pretty obvious.

[Ted Lasso 16,821]

I think the clubs needs dictate the type of coach they should for. IMO it would be supremely silly to not go after an experienced coach as our next appointment. That seems pretty obvious.

I agree, the next appointment is vital, we can't settle for anything but the best option that's available

[bing181 8,169]

But I guess what you're saying is that ALL untried assistants must be good. Great logic.

And we receive a visit from the straw man.

[demon3165 1,937]

A bees breathe from going the way of fitzroy......Schwarz. Listen . This is desperate time. You can prune a tree too much. And if that tree is already sick there is no way back. NOTE WE ARE TOTERING ON THE BRINK.

what crap, Schwarz is the new Neil Harvey of football mr dial a quote, starting to believe in his own bath water. What happened to Fitzroy is totally different and anyone with half a brain can see that.

[stuie 7,374]

And we receive a visit from the straw man.

Hmmmm only quoting half my post and insulting me hey old Bingy.

Again your logic is not your best attribute, I sure hope you're a good looking fella.

[stuie 7,374]

what crap, Schwarz is the new Neil Harvey of football mr dial a quote, starting to believe in his own bath water. What happened to Fitzroy is totally different and anyone with half a brain can see that.

True. They had a MUCH better record than us in their final years...

[jumbo returns 6,493]

Yeah, it would also be good not to stuff up draft picks over the next three years as well.

Skinny, aerobic basketballers should be given a wide berth.

[jumbo returns 6,493]

A bees breathe from going the way of fitzroy......Schwarz. Listen . This is desperate time. You can prune a tree too much. And if that tree is already sick there is no way back. NOTE WE ARE TOTERING ON THE BRINK.

Good Lord.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

what crap, Schwarz is the new Neil Harvey of football mr dial a quote, starting to believe in his own bath water. What happened to Fitzroy is totally different and anyone with half a brain can see that.

In the last 6 years before they disappeared Fitzroy won 31 games; in the last 6 years we've won 32.

I don't think we will disappear but we need to get our [censored] together or we might as well.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

As you would.

A call to the actual person would not have been unreasonable....that is if you were running a competent coach selection process.

Obviously Freo wouldn't.

Good point.

[Return to Glory 7,730]

I for one don't want Roos, everybody seems to think he will be the Savior,I don't agree, he coaches boring boring football.I read Chris Dawes's blurb on MFC.com tonight, he's right, change for change sake is dumb. Neeld needs some help, I think PJ will assess and keep him but will get a more experienced structure around him.

You may be right about boring. but I'd be right into some incredibly boring wins.

[demon3165 1,937]

In the last 6 years before they disappeared Fitzroy won 31 games; in the last 6 years we've won 32.

I don't think we will disappear but we need to get our [censored] together or we might as well.

A bit of history taken from Wikipedia. The AFL wanted them out.

Talk of the death of the club due to financial troubles occurred as early as 1986, and in 1989 the directors agreed to amalgamation with Footscray. Many Footscray supporters did not approve, and made donations which averted the merger. At other times, joining with Melbourne or relocating to Brisbane was suggested. As well as trying several fund-raising ventures, the Lions experimented with playing four home matches in Tasmania in 1991 and 1992, but lost money in the process. In 1994, the club moved its home matches to Western Oval, its fourth home ground in 10 years. While the financial future of the club was uncertain, its on-field performances continued to deteriorate, to the point where the Lions finished last by a long way in 1995 and 1996, winning just three matches in those seasons.

On 28 June 1996, the Nauru Insurance Company, a creditor of the Fitzroy Football Club, appointed Michael Brennan to administer the affairs of the Fitzroy Football Club to ensure a loan of A$1.25 million was to be repaid. The AFLguaranteed funds to allow Fitzroy to continue in the competition for the remainder of 1996.

During the final years, the Fitzroy Football Club had been in merger discussions with several teams, but discussions were most advanced with North Melbourne. By the beginning of July 1996, the club had agreed to arrangements to become the North Fitzroy Kangaroos Football Club, with negotiations for elements such as club colours, guernsey and song settled by the morning of 4 July by the Fitzroy board. However, later that afternoon the administrator of Fitzroy who had been appointed to temporarily replace the Fitzroy board and with the agreement of the AFL commission and a majority vote of the AFL's constituent club merged the club with the Brisbane Bears, to form the Brisbane Lions. The new club was to be based in Brisbane at the Gabba. The arrangement ensured that all creditors were repaid, at least eight Fitzroy players were to be selected by the Brisbane Lions before the 1996 National Draft and three Fitzroy representatives were to be on the new club's 11-member board. None of the three Fitzroy representatives, Laurie Serafini, David Lucas and Ken Levy, chosen by the Brisbane Bears to serve on the Brisbane Lions board were Fitzroy directors at that time.

Those involved have different opinions on why the merger with North Melbourne was rejected, despite negotiations being so far advanced and indeed concluded on the morning of the 4 July. The other AFL club presidents rejected the North Melbourne-Fitzroy merger by a vote of 14–1, and it is commonly thought, and claimed by then Richmond president Leon Daphne, that the potential on-field and off-field strength of an all-Victorian merge would create a superteam, particularly considering that North Melbourne was the premier in 1996, and because the merged team had proposed to take a 50-player senior list into the 1997 season; this is compared with the Brisbane Lions bid, which proposed a 44-player senior list for 1997, and did not have the potential off-field strength of an all-Victorian merge. Then North Melbourne CEO Greg Miller has accused the AFL of contriving the two bids in this manner to manufacture a result which would fulfill its strategic direction to strengthen the game in Queensland. Additionally, then North Melbourne vice-president Peter de Rauch believes that his club's decision not to include Fitzroy president Dyson Hore-Lacy on the board of the merged club was a catalyst for the temporary unravelling of negotiations between the clubs, allowing the appointment of the administrator and keeping the Brisbane Bears involved in the merger negotiations.^[8]

[Sir Why You Little 34,579]

Who do you think selected the bulk of those kids with strong characters when they were U-19's, & why do you think

they performed like that 4 to 5 yrs later, under Swooper?

.

i am well aware of what RDB and Slug did.

But i also give credit to Swooper. He kept that group up for 5 years.

Remember those 2 brutal wins against Hawthorn in 90?

Twice in 7 days.