Both Jones and Clark are B Grade players, and our best players, that is the problem.

Who is going to deal with it? that's another problem.

Jones and Clark B graders?

*not sure if serious*

Jones and Clark B graders?

*not sure if serious*

If Jones and Clark are A graders and the maximum grade is A, what grade do you give Ablett, Judd, Pendlebury and Buddy?

I heard this as well mate, it confirms for me that is not all Neelds fault.... I don't buy just blaming the coach and the game plan.... I don't buy this club can/could be turned around in 18 months

I love a beer and drink when I watch the Dees so I am not knocking them for enjoying themselves...

What worries me is that it's not the first time outside sorces have commented at the lack of professionalism of MFC players. And that lack of professionalism reflects the on field performance of the club. It's not all players but you can thell there is a core group who don't give a stuff

I've been saying this for years... party town.

None of it this is Neelds fault, but he's the only one who is trying to take it on, & clean it out.... he's meeting some resistance. naturally.

How bulky was G White?

How powerful was Green?

How rugged & strong was Bruce?

How Tough & uncompromising was Yze?

Just how hard did Robbo tackle, & how many players did he run down?

MFC = Dinosaur = Extinction.

Neeld hasn't reinvented the wheel, he has tried to implement one.

Not criticising your post C&B, just adding.

Our club never talks about winning games. From the top down.

It's not demanded therefore there are no expectations. The whole club including all the players, coaching staff, administration and Board talk about everything else other than winning.

According to the lot of them, winning is a bi-product of structures, systems, key performance indicators, processes, fitness levels and the rest of the utter garbage and bs they throw our way. Many supporters lap it up but it's all bs. Total bs.

Apart from the Board members, the rest of them are getting exceptionally well paid for just being there. There is no accountability because not enough of our supporters demand wins.Too many of us believe their bs.

It's been going on since the appointment of Bailey. Perhaps even earlier.

Enlighten us then....

If Jones and Clark are A graders and the maximum grade is A, what grade do you give Ablett, Judd, Pendlebury and Buddy?

Elite... I suppose that's the equivalent to A+?

Enlighten us then....

I thought I did. I made a comment about how I thought our club has been since the appointment of Bailey.

Do you believe otherwise?

Not criticising your post C&B, just adding.

Our club never talks about winning games. From the top down.

It's not demanded therefore there are no expectations. The whole club including all the players, coaching staff, administration and Board talk about everything else other than winning.

According to the lot of them, winning is a bi-product of structures, systems, key performance indicators, processes, fitness levels and the rest of the utter garbage and bs they throw our way. Many supporters lap it up but it's all bs. Total bs.

Apart from the Board members, the rest of them are getting exceptionally well paid for just being there. There is no accountability because not enough of our supporters demand wins.Too many of us believe their bs.

It's been going on since the appointment of Bailey. Perhaps even earlier.

Couldn't agree more I'm sick to death of KPI's and the associated crap, I want to win games not quarters or CP's etc. if you play well, guess what, you'll win the KPI's if you lose you don't. All this corporate crap only clouds the minds of impressionable young footballers and inhibits their natural ability.

Let them play football and get some confidence then maybe we can implement a complicated game plan full of KPI's, or not.

Elite... I suppose that's the equivalent to A+?

I said IF the maximum grade is A.

We don't go around calling Ablett an A+ grader. He is simply called an A grader. If we call Ablett an A grader can we call Jones an A grader?

Jones is a good player - being a B grader is not an insult in my eyes.

.

The key point for me was Dermie saying the appointment of the two young captains had caused a division within the team. I know that is an opinion/speculation.

It would be a predicatable reaction of senior players, when they see 20yos get the captaincy, to become disillusioned, lose confidence.

Whoever made the decision to have 2 20yos as captains, should be fired. There is a reason it has never happened before, because it is stupid.

I don't buy OX saying it can't be changed. I say it can. Make Nathan Jones the new captain, if need be, retain these kids as co-captains, otherwise, make them vice-captains.

We all agree MFC have some deficiencies as a playing list. I'm of the opinion that there is still massive development possible within the current playing stocks... Gawn, Kent, Taggert and Clisby to mention a few. I see nothing to be gained from the ongoing, sporadic slagging that goes on in posts like this. It is inaccurate analysis that could be destructive. This sort of juvenile lashing out at the personalities and characters of our playing list says more about the perpetrators than it does about the individuals under attack. My advice... grow-up, suck it in and try to come up with discussion and suggestions that can contribute to the Club's revival.

The key point for me was Dermie saying the appointment of the two young captains had caused a division within the team. I know that is an opinion/speculation.

It would be a predicatable reaction of senior players, when they see 20yos get the captaincy, to become disillusioned, lose confidence.

Whoever made the decision to have 2 20yos as captains, should be fired. There is a reason it has never happened before, because it is stupid.

I don't buy OX saying it can't be changed. I say it can. Make Nathan Jones the new captain, if need be, retain these kids as co-captains, otherwise, make them vice-captains.

I would like it to happen but unfortunately then you may have a problem with Trenners and Grimes getting their back up. If this is to happen, it needs to be handled with the utmost of care.

I don't buy OX saying it can't be changed. I say it can. Make Nathan Jones the new captain, if need be, retain these kids as co-captains, otherwise, make them vice-captains.

I disagree, if you took the captaincy of Grimes I think it wold rip his guts out!

I think Trenners will give the captaincy up at years end and we may hav ok Grimes or another added who could be Jones or Clarke

I just listened to this. What a beat up. Guys in a spa. Who gives a flying.

Carrying on in the spa having a laugh and a good time after being flogged by 148 points the next day? Who gives a flying f###? wowee and this is coming from people who are in the most professional sporting club in Australia. As Dermie said they knocked off the top side and they were straight into business doing ice baths being PROFESSIONAL athletes! whle we were prancing around in a warm spa.. Time for some serious changes, Our culture is a long way off from the best its quite sad. And its supporters like you who accept mediocre and think its all good and sweet..

Whoever made the decision to have 2 20yos as captains, should be fired.

Grimes will be 24 next month, Trengove is 21.

This is what happens when you lose a lot. It's easy to take pot shots about players in a spa. Fair dinkum it's a bloody spa. Were they accompanied by hookers and cocaine? If the rabbitohs saw the swans playing rubber ducky in a spa who would give a toss?

People just don't get it, do they?

If the Swans are in the spa, then it's because they've been bloody well told to be there and have earned a laugh. They're coming off a win, they're Premiers - they're respected and well drilled.

Melbourne are not Sydney. Melbourne are a joke. If you dismiss enough individual incidents like this, you'll stop seeing the culture problem that is literally killing this footy club. The fact that the players are sitting there laughing after 3 100~ point losses in a row is disgraceful. They are an absolute laughing stock, and they're not even willing to put in the hard yards to actually get some respect back.

I am not saying that sitting in the spa having a few beers is wrong... as a matter of fact I enjoy it myself.

It's the preception that these blokes (MFC) don't do eveything possible to prepare themselves for games.

After all who would want to listen to Storm players??? What have they ever acheived....

People need to wake up - our club is a basket case not only because of the Administration - our culture sucks all round

Couldn't agree more I'm sick to death of KPI's and the associated crap, I want to win games not quarters or CP's etc. if you play well, guess what, you'll win the KPI's if you lose you don't. All this corporate crap only clouds the minds of impressionable young footballers and inhibits their natural ability.

Let them play football and get some confidence then maybe we can implement a complicated game plan full of KPI's, or not.

The club, in my eyes, may be viewing these continual heavy losses as some sort of stepping stone to greatness. They've probably convinced themselves that the losses don't matter. The losses do matter. We have a percentage of 35. How embarrassing is that?

Our players are listless and they look like they'd rather be somewhere else. They've forgotten how to play football. We're a club in denial.

But according to many there's no need to panic or react. It'll all come good in their eyes. Keep the faith they say. Faith in what? Stuff they tell us? Sorry, I don't believe a word of it.

Actions speaks louder than words. We're seeing very little action and we've been hearing lots of words for far too long.

The club, in my eyes, may be viewing these continual heavy losses as some sort of stepping stone to greatness. They've probably convinced themselves that the losses don't matter. The losses do matter. We have a percentage of 35. How embarrassing is that?

Our players are listless and they look like they'd rather be somewhere else. They've forgotten how to play football. We're a club in denial.

But according to many there's no need to panic or react. It'll all come good in their eyes. Keep the faith they say. Faith in what? Stuff they tell us? Sorry, I don't believe a word of it.

Actions speaks louder than words. We're seeing very little action and we've been hearing lots of words for far too long.

Agree on that statement

The whole culture stinks - there are no easy solutoins to the MFC's problems

Agree on that statement

The whole culture stinks - there are no easy solutoins to the MFC's problems

The thing that irks me the most is that all these heavy losses are compared to other times when our team or other teams had all these terrible losses. Comparing mediocrity with mediocrity somehow 'explains' things. It's all rubbish.

The sooner the lot of us start demanding more from the club then the better off we'll all be. It's not all doom and gloom. We are in doom and gloom right now. We need to extricate ourselves out of it.

The club needs a strong leader who will bring about change. A no nonsense character who will take no prisoners. Someone who demands that everyone within the club is working towards winning every single game.

The thing that irks me the most is that all these heavy losses are compared to other times when our team or other teams had all these terrible losses. Comparing mediocrity with mediocrity somehow 'explains' things. It's all rubbish.

The sooner the lot of us start demanding more from the club then the better off we'll all be. It's not all doom and gloom. We are in doom and gloom right now. We need to extricate ourselves out of it.

The club needs a strong leader who will bring about change. A no nonsense character who will take no prisoners. Someone who demands that everyone within the club is working towards winning every single game.

As you know 'Macca' the only KPI that matters is the scoreboard, the rest is just theoretical BS.

As you know 'Macca' the only KPI that matters is the scoreboard, the rest is just theoretical BS.

I've got no problem with a differing view rjay. But the facts are the facts.

My views could look depressing on first glance but it's not like I don't offer a solution. Or at least an opinion of how we can get better. After the 1st game I laid the blame at everyone in our club. Everyone at the club needed to examine what they brought to the table. Instead of pointing the finger. So what did we do? We pointed the finger at Cameron Schwab.

We need change from the top down. We sacked the CEO but how is that going to fix our immediate on field problems? Maybe long term there will be some tangible effects from a change of the CEO but in the Chairman's words, it was a move to appease the supporters who were 'Polarised' by CS. Hate to bang on about it, but it just looked totally amateurish and it sums up our club.

.

We need change from the top down.

No, we need change from the bottom up. Grass roots, attitudinal, cultural change, Which, as this thread illustrates, starts in places like the spa baths and the recovery sessions.

I think a few here should have a look at Martin Flanagan's recent article in the Age re all this. He covers it very well, even though I don't agree with all of it:

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/culture-not-simply-a-word-20130412-2hr1o.html

I hear this and it worries me.

Culture is important.

Robert Walls pointing out that a second gamer in Terlich, doing our kick outs, worries me.

It worries me that we have a coach who thinks it is ok for Terlich to do the kick outs in his second game.

Only 2 games earlier, Dunn kicked out and was horrible, yet Neeld kept with him all day.

Neeld just simply isn't up to this job, he needs to go immediately.

I am not bluffed anymore.

From beards to babble baths. MFC celebrating 150 years.

No, we need change from the bottom up.

No, we need change from the top down.

I've made a number of references as to why and how in posts #49, #69, #71 and #73 in this thread.

.