148 > 186... Bailey was far better than Neeld.

[Pitchy 196]

Unfortunately, anyway you look at it, we have gone backwards under Neeld. Backwards in talent, personell, enthusiasm, gameplan, excitement, fun and most importantly ON THE LADDER!!! Until he and Schwab goes the Melbourne Football Club are without a chance of moving forward.

Follow this if you will;

2011 we won 8.5 games - Surely Neeld would back himslef to take that as a baseline and build up from there?? We already had a young list so just develop them beyond what they had performed the year before. We are sooooooooooooooo much worse than 8.5 now. What I'd give for 8.5 wins.

In 2011 we often looked fast, competitive dynamic: When we won, we won big - thrashed Adelaide (watch this!

), 94 points, thrashed Freo. Look at them now and then look at us? When we lost we looked spirited yet outgunned and leaky like many a young team does. Our list was good enough to beat teams like the Swans until Neeld disempowered and traded half the talent out and got spuds in. With the talent drain since 2011, even the best gameplan in the world we would still lose uncomfortably.

Rethinking 186 - Cats pummelled 2011 runners-up Collingwood by 96 points two weeks later. This is THE Collingwood guys! You know the team that won a flag? The fully grown list and club lost by 100 to the Cats straight after we did. There was a well known power struggle behind the scenes at Melbourne which leaked out onto the field for 186. We were riven with internal tension and flogged by one of the best teams of all time, in top form, on their home turf. The Pies were at their peak and thrashed on the G. Can never be pretty but how is this equation?

186 = 96 (what the pies lost by two weeks later) + 30 (Cats at Kardinia Park toll) + 30 (internal politics leaking onto the field) + 30 (inexperienced and fatigued team). 148 is so much worse than that.

In 2011 Brent Moloney came 7th in the Brownlow: The list turnover and spiralling performance of our best talent has been the biggest crime of the Neeld/Schwab gutting. Do they know how many losses we had to suffer to get those talented young players??? Back yourself to make them players, don't just trade out Gysberts for Pederson, Petterd for Byrnes. Moloney for Rodan. Bring more out of players! Furthermore it's well documented that all our AA talent has gone backward Frawley, Jamar, Davey.

AFL standard - I am sick of hearing people write about the Neeld as though he picked up a failed rebuild basket case! We were stuttering but definitely on our way up. We were running out games fine. Neeld himself constantly sinks the boot in saying that he is trying to get to AFL standard. What disrespectful rubbish to a peer in Bailey to divert the spotlight from his own dismal performance. We have slipped so far backwards on any tangible scale since Neeld joined.

I blame Garry Lyon, Mclardy and the board for supporting snake Schwab over the senior players in the wake of 186. It takes a lot of resentment for senior players to stand up to a bully CEO. (Pavlich vs Schwab at Freo is a happy example of where the players won the day! bye bye Schwabbie!) At the Dees, Schwab had put tanking in place, shelved a 'trust exercise' report and force cut their beloved Captain Jnr Mac! For them to defy the players by sacking Bailey while we were still a chance to make the 8 was just plain weak, reactive and horrible. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Bailey was definitely going to last the distance, maybe we swap him for Malthouse after his contract was up in 2012 ala Ratts.

But one thing is for sure, we have never looked as pathetic and hopeless as we do now under Neeld. But apparently our pre-season GPS data is up to AFL standard so I might be wrong

[dazzledavey36 53,070]

You know what. I agree with you.

[pantaloons 2,019]

They will both end their careers as statistically two of the worst coaches in VFL/AFL history. There is no rationalising 186 either - it was an unmitigated flaming disgrace, as was last night.

[P-man 13,366]

I do find the constant implications by Neeld that the club was a basket case and by association, Bailey, really poor form. His record is ALOT better than yours Markus, and by pretty much any measure, we've been thrown into reverse at 150 clicks. Sorry, 148 clicks.

That Adelaide footage is like watching a different team. I suppose in many ways it is one.

[stuie 7,374]

While I think the OP is well thought out, do we REALLY need ANOTHER thread started to call for the sacking of Neeld and/or Schwab?

[Carlos Danger 380]

Bailey was never going to coach us to a premiership.

The right decision was made.

Whether or not Neeld was the right successor, time will tell.

[P-man 13,366]

They will both end their careers as statistically two of the worst coaches in VFL/AFL history. There is no rationalising 186 either - it was an unmitigated flaming disgrace, as was last night.

OP raises the valid point that Geelong were arguably at their peak and are widely recognised as one of if not the best team of the modern era. They went on to beat the Pies by 100 points away from home. They were FLYING at that stage. Doesn't excuse the performance, but it can be somewhat explained.

To be utterly destroyed on our home turf by Port and now Essendon can't be defended on any grounds.

Edited April 7, 2013 by P_Man

[DeeZee 7,318]

Baily lost the players too, hence 186

[pantaloons 2,019]

OP raises the valid point that Geelong were arguably at their peak and are widely recognised as one of if not the best team of the modern era. They went on to beat the Pies by 100 points away from home. They were FLYING at that stage. Doesn't excuse the performance, but it can be somewhat explained.

To be utterly destroyed on our home turf by Port and now Essendon can't be defended on any grounds.

Look, I get the gist of the OP's point and that we're presently going nowhere. We also appointed an untried coach after Bailey when it was painfully obvious to all and sundry that an experienced head was required, but that's done now - we can only learn from it. But please, please. Any attempt to look at 186 or 148 as anything but the players putting in disgraceful bordering on mutinous efforts is sickening to me.

[Real Demon 232]

Can't argue with the facts!

I still believe we were going nowhere under Bailey, and played one way footy under him,

But I think Neeld's approach of basically incinerating the place when he came in is too far the other way, and we are feeling the repercussions of this!

The team was winning games of footy before............did he have to pull the house down just because it needed restumping???

Neeld has no way out of this now...............it isn't whether or not he get's sacked this year, but simply when.

Only a miracle can save him now, and they just don't exist in footy!

[stuie 7,374]

Bailey was never going to coach us to a premiership.

The right decision was made.

Whether or not Neeld was the right successor, time will tell.

How much time exactly?!

[PRIME 41]

It is documented that Mark Neeld has increased the spending in the footy department almost 2 fold. We have a real big forward now, Mission who is supposed to be the man when it comes to fitness and Neil Craig who set up adelaide for what looks like a good time....

[P-man 13,366]

Look, I get the gist of the OP's point and that we're presently going nowhere. We also appointed an untried coach after Bailey when it was painfully obvious to all and sundry that an experienced head was required, but that's done now - we can only learn from it. But please, please. Any attempt to look at 186 or 148 as anything but the players putting in disgraceful bordering on mutinous efforts is sickening to me.

I'm not defending 186 on its own and I don't think the OP is either really. It was a shocking day and a shockingly bad performance. But in comparison to 148 (I guess we can call it that now), there is some context that, for me at least, makes 148 a worse loss. Some will disagree.

I anticipate that if personnel doesn't change, we will be looking at several more games this season that will be referred to only by the final margin.

[dees64 104]

Very sad.....Neeld has dismantled our list & filled it up with rejects!

Cameron Ling did say the Cats wr great at developing players & draft picks are only a small part of it!

Look @ Sydney, their culture very strong & developing both young & discards is very strong

Ted Richards,Mitch Morton.Josh Kenedy.......

Neeld talks about another rebuild.... why when we had early picks & proven older players that just needed to be managed better

[warren dean 193]

Bailey v Neeld is interesting. What I think is more interesting and often overlooked is the job Daniher did as coach for nearly 10 years. In that time we played finals in 6 seasons. He worked under numerous boards and presidents, CEO's and third world (by AFL standards) facilities at the Junction oval, and no money. When he took over we had just finished 14th in a 16 team comp and had just come out of the merger saga. He was our major spruiker right throughout his entire coaching reign. Out of that era came top notch footy operatives in Mark Evans and Chris Fagan, who worked closely with Daniher and Danny Corcoran to build a decent footy team despite all of the other crap that was constantly flying around. His effort to get us to a GF in 2000 was nothing short of remarkable. in 2006, his last completed season, we were the highest ranked Victorian team in the competition. Some will argue he left the list in poor condition. I think he got the best out of what he had and I am staggered he never got another chance somewhere else.

[DemonOX 8,712]

Yeah thanks Bailey you put this club so far back it's not funny and we are still paying for it.

What a joke.

[Roost It 1,434]

Unfortunately, anyway you look at it, we have gone backwards under Neeld. Backwards in talent, personell, enthusiasm, gameplan, excitement, fun and most importantly ON THE LADDER!!! Until he and Schwab goes the Melbourne Football Club are without a chance of moving forward.

Follow this if you will;

2011 we won 8.5 games - Surely Neeld would back himslef to take that as a baseline and build up from there?? We already had a young list so just develop them beyond what they had performed the year before. We are sooooooooooooooo much worse than 8.5 now. What I'd give for 8.5 wins.

In 2011 we often looked fast, competitive dynamic: When we won, we won big - thrashed Adelaide (watch this! ), 94 points, thrashed Freo. Look at them now and then look at us? When we lost we looked spirited yet outgunned and leaky like many a young team does. Our list was good enough to beat teams like the Swans until Neeld disempowered and traded half the talent out and got spuds in. With the talent drain since 2011, even the best gameplan in the world we would still lose uncomfortably.

Rethinking 186 - Cats pummelled 2011 runners-up Collingwood by 96 points two weeks later. This is THE Collingwood guys! You know the team that won a flag? The fully grown list and club lost by 100 to the Cats straight after we did. There was a well known power struggle behind the scenes at Melbourne which leaked out onto the field for 186. We were riven with internal tension and flogged by one of the best teams of all time, in top form, on their home turf. The Pies were at their peak and thrashed on the G. Can never be pretty but how is this equation?

186 = 96 (what the pies lost by two weeks later) + 30 (Cats at Kardinia Park toll) + 30 (internal politics leaking onto the field) + 30 (inexperienced and fatigued team). 148 is so much worse than that.

In 2011 Brent Moloney came 7th in the Brownlow: The list turnover and spiralling performance of our best talent has been the biggest crime of the Neeld/Schwab gutting. Do they know how many losses we had to suffer to get those talented young players??? Back yourself to make them players, don't just trade out Gysberts for Pederson, Petterd for Byrnes. Moloney for Rodan. Bring more out of players! Furthermore it's well documented that all our AA talent has gone backward Frawley, Jamar, Davey.

AFL standard - I am sick of hearing people write about the Neeld as though he picked up a failed rebuild basket case! We were stuttering but definitely on our way up. We were running out games fine. Neeld himself constantly sinks the boot in saying that he is trying to get to AFL standard. What disrespectful rubbish to a peer in Bailey to divert the spotlight from his own dismal performance. We have slipped so far backwards on any tangible scale since Neeld joined.

I blame Garry Lyon, Mclardy and the board for supporting snake Schwab over the senior players in the wake of 186. It takes a lot of resentment for senior players to stand up to a bully CEO. (Pavlich vs Schwab at Freo is a happy example of where the players won the day! bye bye Schwabbie!) At the Dees, Schwab had put tanking in place, shelved a 'trust exercise' report and force cut their beloved Captain Jnr Mac! For them to defy the players by sacking Bailey while we were still a chance to make the 8 was just plain weak, reactive and horrible. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Bailey was definitely going to last the distance, maybe we swap him for Malthouse after his contract was up in 2012 ala Ratts.

But one thing is for sure, we have never looked as pathetic and hopeless as we do now under Neeld. But apparently our pre-season GPS data is up to AFL standard so I might be wrong

Nice post but its crap. Wona left for family reasons, Jurrah the same. Morton, Bennell, Petterd, Cook and co were between average and a joke. We were a team of front runners which is how Moloney got his votes. We got flogged by the better sides and literally beaten up by the good sides. We were going nowhere. Neeld needs to be left to see out his contract. If someone better is then available lets take them. Schwab can go fark himself. On that we agree Edited April 7, 2013 by Roost It

[stuie 7,374]

Yeah thanks Bailey you put this club so far back it's not funny and we are still paying for it.

What a joke.

Give me a break.

How have we looked so far this year with Neeld's list?

[Roost It 1,434]

Remember Neeld and co may have erred in recruiting Rodan, Byrnes and Gillies. But they also drafted Hogan, Viney at 26, Toumpas, Barry, Terlich, Kent and Jones. Besides Rivers the rest were deadwood at this club. Give the FD some time for change to take effect. We have the makings of a good team. Hold the line Demons we'll get through this

[Jaded No More 68,285]

186 was an utter disgrace, a disaster from which there was no return. 186 also happened against one of the greatest teams of the modern era, on their home turf, amidst off field drama.

Saturday night was on our ground, against a team we've beaten the past two years, with minimal injuries, with everything to prove, and with Mitch Clark.

148 was worse than 186, and it will be a coach killer just like 186 was, but the killing will be slower, and the damage may be greater.

[rjay 24,665]

Remember Neeld and co may have erred in recruiting Rodan, Byrnes and Gillies. But they also drafted Hogan, Viney at 26, Toumpas, Barry, Terlich, Kent and Jones. Besides Rivers the rest were deadwood at this club. Give the FD some time for change to take effect. We have the makings of a good team. Hold the line Demons we'll get through this

Whilst they look promising none of these guys are proven AFL players yet.

[P-man 13,366]

Whilst they look promising none of these guys are proven AFL players yet.

Bingo. A couple look alright, but it's yet another bankable for Neeld than has no value yet. It's up there with the fact we are supposedly elite at training.

The guy has no runs on the board. In anything.

[rjay 24,665]

OP raises the valid point that Geelong were arguably at their peak and are widely recognised as one of if not the best team of the modern era. They went on to beat the Pies by 100 points away from home. They were FLYING at that stage. Doesn't excuse the performance, but it can be somewhat explained.

To be utterly destroyed on our home turf by Port and now Essendon can't be defended on any grounds.

The pies had nothing to gain that night but injuries, in hindsight they took it too easy and gave Geelong the psychological advantage heading into the finals.

[DemonOX 8,712]

Give me a break.

How have we looked so far this year with Neeld's list?

Stuie I know we don't look good yet but [censored] he inherited an unfit list with no leadership and a heap of draft picks which have not been developed properly at all.

He has a lot to answer for.

[Courtney_Fish 183]

I don't have a good grasp on what actually happened on the day we lost by 186 but weren't the players upset with CC &/or CS? And then weren't they remorseful because Bailey, whom they liked, got the blame. On top of this, weren't things re-organized so that CC & CS were not so involved with the football department anymore?