"Tanking"

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I repeat -

But would it be the right thing to do? We talk about the lack of a strong culture at Melbourne and yet you advocate hanging one of our own out to dry. Not for me. I don't want to hear economic rationalism. This is our football club. Give me something to be proud of at the end of this.

I'm realistic enough to know that we probably can't escape without some sort of whack. However, I'll be really disappointed if we are seen to make scapegoats of our own people just to minimise the damage to our finances. Bugger that - fight it out and hold our heads high for once. Look after our own and stand united.

I agree, it would be romantic but at the end of the day it was always going to come down to DB and CC.

Like with Essendon, down to Hird and Robinson.

The MFC managed to get CS out of charges, but with DB the charges are suspended so it wouldnt is current position or employment and Port and as for CC... he will have to go on holiday but needs to watch out for those Zulus.

We wouldnt be hanging them out to dry, I dont think I need to mention all the time and effort spent defending these men.

BUT the risk is we could either take these charges which the media are bantering around... or run the risk or worse ones in court.

I reckon if you ask CC or DB they would suggest to take the deal. Just my opinion.

[old dee 22,854]

I'm over this shite as well, but it needs to be finished to our satisfaction, not the AFL's. The song says, "Every heart beats true..." It doesn't exclude those who open their mouth and say the wrong thing at times. If that was the case there wouldn't be too many members left in the reserved seat section where I sit.

I am right beside you Reverend.

All or nothing

Carn the Dees

Edited February 18, 2013 by old dee

[Bossdog 2,002]

Why didn't you point out that Wilson is at least consistent ? She's also stated that Hird should go, as has Smith.

There is a difference though. Every man and his dog believes that Melbourne conspired to lose except for some Melbourne supporters, while Hird is guilty of not being across all aspects of his club. A marked difference imo. Leigh Matthews has stated that as a coach he couldn't unequivocally say what his players were given as it was left to the Doctors and sports scientists.

I don't believe Hird should be sacked. The fact that all clubs reviewed their own policies in light of what is happening at Essendon insinuates that the same situation could/would have been happening at other clubs.

"Every man and his dog" thought that the witches in Salam were guilty......Doesn't mean they were right.....

[Trisul 636]

[Hannibal 5,814]

"Every man and his dog" thought that the witches in Salam were guilty......Doesn't mean they were right.....

So the club was trying to win every game in 2009 in your opinion ?

[Jinty060 66]

Just been listening to Finey on SEN rip into both Caroline Wilson and Patrick Smith for their journalistic "style" in constantly demanding for resignations etc. He just finished a 20 minute rant. It was brilliant.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

So the club was trying to win every game in 2009 in your opinion ?

But were they trying to lose?

There is a difference between winning not being a top priority and wanting to lose.

[45HG 1,539]

There is a difference between winning not being a top priority and wanting to lose.

And a difference between wanting to lose and orchestrating a loss.

[IWAP 168]

Anyone else hear the Caro bit on AW just after the 6pm news?

I didn't have the greatest reception at the time so didn't catch it all. There wasn't much new, just that we were working hard to get the 500k down (suspended amount), the Dean Bailey suspension would not be as large as initially thought (potentially all of it suspended), and much of the negotation is all about what the final wording of any charges will be.

[Chook 14,501]

"Every man and his dog" thought that the witches in Salam were guilty......Doesn't mean they were right.....

Only a witch would say that. J'accuse!!!

[stuie 7,374]

But were they trying to lose?

There is a difference between winning not being a top priority and wanting to lose.

So many fail to understand that, seemingly even the great BH.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Nine news said Commission will rubber stamp $500k fine tonight and let us know tonight.

Seven news said Commission meeting is a marathon and tanking situation up in the air.

: The unwanted tank inquisition.

: Bombs away on PeP tides.

: the secret player to be sacked?

: the Lions accusations.

: general business

: handover timing from Vlad to William Wallace.

busy night ahead

[dee-luded 2,958]

It is interesting that when CC and CS were for the sack according to Wilson, at that stage without any proof of anything at all, no one except some of us at Demonland stood up for the unfairness of her report. However when poster boy Hird is suggested may be sacked so many media types are jumping to his defence, raising all sorts of reasons why he should stay, including lets wait for the findings.

Pity that standard doesn't apply to our people.

Proves we're doing a good job in the face of the wolf pack, no support, but ourselves.

[stuie 7,374]

: The unwanted tank inquisition.

: Bombs away on PeP tides.

: the secret player to be sacked?

: the Lions accusations.

: general business

: handover timing from Vlad to William Wallace.

busy night ahead

And that's not until after they rubberstamp Vlad's midseason holiday to the Greek Islands for research on... ummmm.... he'll work that out later

[dee-luded 2,958]

And that's not until after they rubberstamp Vlad's midseason holiday to the Greek Islands for research on... ummmm.... he'll work that out later

Liked it so much he bought 4 whilst over there, but was annoyed they couldn't freight them.

I reckon he'd be Greek, with bricks & mortar.

[Redleg 37,600]

Why didn't you point out that Wilson is at least consistent ? She's also stated that Hird should go, as has Smith.

I stand corrected Ben, Wilson is consistent, consistently pathetic. I am sure you agree that her vendetta against us has seen no balance in her articles?

I am still struggling with all of this, as my info is that there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever of the MFC actually tanking in the report. No one has said we actually tanked. Even McLean recanted his ambiguous statement that started it all.

I repeat that the strongest thing coming out of the report, on my info, is the so called "vault" statement of Connolly, whcih Bailey has said was a joke and which he totally ignored. Bailey's Solicitor said he denied tanking and will contest any finding that he did.

It has been suggested in the media, that the statements that have been made, have apparently led to complaints from some of those making them, that they were recorded inaccurately and done under coercion and intimidation.

Given that the vault statement is a private in house statement, how does it bring the game into disrepute without the 7 month investigation that is leaked to the media before it is even shown to the alleged culprit?

The rule is unclear and ambiguous, as to "perform on your merits" and tanking is not defined other than the CEO's definition of instructing players to lose, which didn't happen.

Other clubs despite more initial evidence than McLean's statement, are not being investigated, suggesting either an approval of what was done or an unwillingness to take on stronger clubs. In other words "Bias" is being shown in the administration of the competition.

If the above is true, no wonder the MFC don't want to settle and its lawyers want to litigate if it is charged.

BTW. Jason McGrath a former Lions player, today said he sold drugs to Lions players and assisted them with match fixing and spot fixing, several years ago. Do you think that will be investigated, considering it involves serious matters, against a beloved interstate club of the AFL?

[daisycutter 28,531]

does anyone think there will really be a decision tonight after the commission meeting?

i'm starting to think this could go a few more weeks

thoughts?

[stuie 7,374]

does anyone think there will really be a decision tonight after the commission meeting?

i'm starting to think this could go a few more weeks

thoughts?

Announcement tomorrow is my rough guess.

Meeting today, announcement tomorrow, Wednesday everyone dissects it all, Thursday we start talking footy again...

[pantaloons 2,019]

And so it goes on. We can debate the level of Melbourne's debauchery in 2009 in comparison to other 'tankers' all we like, but whether you eat your vegetables pureed, with a knife and fork or with a sprinkling of garnish, you are still eating your vegetables. Personally, I don't care who did it worse, because I don't have a problem with tanking, list managing, or putting oneself in the best possible position for future success. It is an indisputable fact that three of the last seven premierships would not have been won without the aid of some level of tanking.

All the AFL needs to say tomorrow is that they are taking investigations seriously by introducing a draft lottery system so that there is significantly less incentive to deliberately lose for cellar-dwellers at the end of a lost season.

[stuie 7,374]

Caro seems to think there will be an announcement tomorrow.... So I guess that means it won't be happening this week.

Also, a lot more rumor from her mysterious "sources" and far less venom in her latest:

Dees push to have fine halved

[Whispering_Jack 27,978]

It is interesting that when CC and CS were for the sack according to Wilson, at that stage without any proof of anything at all, no one except some of us at Demonland stood up for the unfairness of her report. However when poster boy Hird is suggested may be sacked so many media types are jumping to his defence, raising all sorts of reasons why he should stay, including lets wait for the findings.

Pity that standard doesn't apply to our people.

The words used by Gerard Whateley on the Offsiders which I finally got to watch tonight were, "We have to wait for the outcome to judge." In other words, you are innocent until proven guilty. After 7½ months of being adjudged guilty, I learned tonight that the investigation has not been finalised and that we don't know exactly what we've been charged with. Madness.

[rpfc 27,472]

It's seems that you forget how poor Richmond were. It's been stated since that the Richmond coaching group were gutted, because they knew they'd only just beaten a team desperate to lose.

But if you really don't think we tanked that day give up watching footy.

Well, BH will not read this but this is just typical of the way he goes about things - he 'feels' it is right and that is that.

If the Tigers lost THAT game they would have finished the season with a Priority Pick after the 1st Round.

They didn't want to win.

They came off a win over Ess and a stirring draw against NM, and they serve up that trash?

Both teams did not want to win that game.

If the Tigers staff were devastated - it was because they managed to win.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

I'm convinced that Caro forced this investigation not Brock McLean. Caro went to the AFL with a brief of 'evidence' from a disgruntled ex-employee. Its why she has run so hard with the story. AA was running it and I have no doubt was her liaison but the leaks as we are seeing them are actually her repeating the 'evidence' that was told to her.

There is no other logical reason she has carried on the way she has.

This is plausible.

We may eventually discover the evidence in support of this theory, in the form of the disgruntled ex-employee(s) who she has so far not named. Perhaps they'll be named in the AFL brief, because you would imagine they would be some of the primary witnesses. Unless the AFL refers to him/them as 'person X' (a la Mossad).

There is little doubt that Adrian Anderson was involved with some leaking in the opposite direction, because the flow to Wilson from the AFL has stopped since he's gone. But like you say, if she was the source of the original allegations then she didn't need leaks for that info at least.

I'm hoping that Garry raises the hypocrisy of her boots-and-all tactics against the Dees, while Richmond (glass houses) has the Terry Wallace admission that is equally damning. I'm sure Grant Thomas wouldn't have been afraid to [censored] her arrogant bubble.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Caro seems to think there will be an announcement tomorrow.... So I guess that means it won't be happening this week.

Also, a lot more rumor from her mysterious "sources" and far less venom in her latest:

Dees push to have fine halved

If the AFL remain tight-lipped then how does this information get out; who is the leak and how is he still employed? If we are awaiting details of the charges how could the penalties already be determined?

Why would we be expecting a $500k fine if we don't know what the charges are?

MELBOURNE remained hopeful on Monday night of diluting its expected $500,000 fine as a result of the AFL's six-month investigation into whether it deliberately lost games in 2009.

While the AFL remained tight-lipped after Monday's commission talks, the Demons were awaiting details of the final charges to be laid by the league.

This becomes more bizarre by the day.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

If a sticking point is the wording of the charges laid against us what can the AFL do? I would imagine we are hell bent on not having the charges of match fixing laid against us. They can't name it tanking or trying to get draft picks. You can't fine us and suspend people under the charge of being naughty. The AFL may be holding this up because they are clueless to the wording of the charges.