This is what I know about Gysberts and why he was traded-

-he is not competitive at all in one on one drills

-he could not bench press 50kgs and was very ordinary with the other weights

-in today's football the club believed he is not strong enough to play as an inside mid and did not appear to want to improve in the strength area

-his endurance is rubbish and again he didn't appear to want to improve. Anyone that went to preseason would have observed this first hand

-he doesnt have a defensive side to his game which goes against the way neeld wants to play. Very similar to moloney.

-he was not a neeld favourite right from the start because of his work ethic and unlike blease was not prepared to turn it around

Neeld has made his decisions on soft footballers at our club and we are seeing the product of this.

I'll admit I'm a bad loser but even more I hate watching us get pumped so often. I'm happy to move on guys that aren't competitive. Gys is one of those guys. Viney and wines would crush him easily now in that area and hogan has already stated he hates losing. These are the guys I want at our club.

The high draft picks are just a by-product of us moving them on.

Good effort DS

Finally someone who has looked at the facts.

Not the emotion.

Can't fill every gap in one off season, but we sure seem to be giving it a crack. I'm another that is a fan of this trade.

The one thing Gysberts, Martin & Morton have in common they are all soft as butter and Neeld stated he wants to coach a team that is hard to play against.

Glad to be rid of these players

Heart and desire is required for a team to be great

I'm happy to get rid of soft players, make no mistake about it.

I would have rather gone for a midfielder in the Gysberts trade as I think that area is a more pressing concern.

Again it's not that Pederson cannot apply. He can. I just think we have that key position area already covered.

so Carlton officially beat us in the FHead McLean situation. That makes me feel fantastic.

so Carlton officially beat us in the FHead McLean situation. That makes me feel fantastic.

Deviation. Indirectly it's now McLean and Pederson.

gonna need to stretch his jumper so dawes can fit into the number 5

I still can't quite fathom how/why we needed to add a sweetener to this deal and downgrade our draft picks even further. North fans would be very very happy I'd imagine.

IMHO, Pederson, Byrne & Rodan fit the definition - ordinary players. I hope I'm wrong but look at the facts - none could command a regular game in 2012 - no winners as far as I'm concerned. Undone the good work from early in the trade period.

Because Gysberts, Martin, Cook and Morton we're all knocking down the door to make the best 22 in a pretty poor side.

We need to keep these deals in context - we're opening spots for blokes who want to play for the MFC and put in the effort required by the FD

Stop worrying about draft pick numbers and look at the bigger picture that losing these soft blokes will improve the list - even if it only for minor reasons in 2013

I think we are getting caught up in the mystique of the number 11 pick.

Ricky Petterd has had the same amount of injuries and probably had the same of amount of games where we left thinking "wow" - but because he was not pick 11 there will be about 10 seconds of hand wringing when he is chopped. Even if he succeeds at North and the penny drops the mistake was not trading him - the mistake was taking him at pick 11

we're opening spots for blokes who want to play for the MFC and put in the effort required by the FD

who are they though? they are players drafted at the end of the draft, that statistically speaking have about a 1% chance of making anything out of themselves

What a pile.

Gysberts finds the ball. It is not a 'suppossed' skill. Watch him play. FMD.

This thread is littered with people arguing about his limitations and yet you find it necessary to get on, make a series of points that are borderline irrelelvant or already made and then defend it by saying that you are concerned that people are making their opinons' up on the first 3 games. You finish this by failing to remember the injury that RobbieF points out. That was particularly nice - to accuse others of limited reasoning when yours was so...ignorant.

Thanks for appointing yourself the guardian of well thought-out arguments. You are extending your efforts about Morton to Gysberts. Excellent. Now why don't you go and define "inside mid" as someone who gets the ball and butchers it. No wait, you've done that already!

Gysberts' great talent is that he can get the ball in tight. He is physcially weak, has no tank and cannot hurt the opposition. In four years his strenghts have barely improved and his weaknesses are painfully unchanged. Trade now, trade next year or delist.

Forgive the late reply timD, I'll bite...

Gysberts finds the ball. I have never refuted that so I'm confused by your first point.

Secondly, yes, as petty as it may seem, I find it agonisingly annoying and frustrating that so many supporters, (not just of the MFC but any club), can consistently talk up players on their list on the back of a draft pick number or a handful of games in which a player hits above 20 possies.

Examples being Gysberts and Morton. I have not based my opinion on Gysberts from the first couple/few games he played in which we saw some promising signs. I have based my opinion of the guy from his first game with us up until this point in time. Obviously that includes the time in which he has been injured etc.

The severity of these injuries are another argument altogether...

There's a reason my opinion of Gysberts is such a conservative one Tim. Can you guess why? Because I haven't based it on those first few games he had! Makes sense doesn't it?!

Never have I appointed myself as the 'guardian of well thought-out arguments'. That is a label you have given me. Can you see the irony in your post Tim? It's becoming quite humorous now...

As for the definition of 'inside mid'. That is another accusation you have made of me.. (I thought your post was meant to be pointing out my accusations of others?) I never defined what an 'inside mid' is, because people have varying interpretations of the word. I simply said that it was a confusing word in context

with what the poster was writing about, because my understanding of the word is as follows: a player who's strength is winning the contested pill. That being the basis. Better/more valuable ones will also possess strengths in other attributes. For example McKenzie is a an 'inside mid' and so is Josh Kennedy. Who is better? Why?

Your argument is as bad as mine. I know I say some things out of anger and frustration on demonland which may well be irrelevant in your mind. But this is a football forum, and deep down, I care about my fellow Melbourne supporters. To put it simply, it hurts me to see MFC supporters so positive and upbeat about young players who happen to be top draft picks of their year, only to be traded away, delisted etc a few years later. I know it happens to all clubs. But given the fact over the last however many years we have had the worst leaders/experienced crop of players within the AFL to teach/inspire the youth, a questionable recruiter in BP, a couple of coaches who didn't do us any favours, all of this culminating in a culture in decline.

No wonder we are seeing major changes at the MFC.

I love you all...

(Even you Rhino...)

As a result of Jordan leaving I now have a genuine one off collectors item .

Signed photo of Jordan with the words future Melbourne captain written on the back:(

( given me to me via a friend of his family)

Unfortunately I also have a beautiful sketch of Jurrah in full flight

Got a space on my cabinet now ,who will fill it

Gysberts is the only one of the traded players that i am disapointed about loosing.

Let be honest, it hurts to loose a bloke taken at Pick 11, who has recieved 2 rising star noms, and seemingly had everything needed to make it apart from size at 22 years of age.

Having said that the pecking order for Mids is getting pretty long. Jones, Trengove, Grimes, McKenzie, Howe, Blease + Viney & presumably pick 4? Couldnt see Gysberts getting a gig infront of them for a good few years. Probably the right call

Forgive the late reply timD, I'll bite...

Gysberts finds the ball. I have never refuted that so I'm confused by your first point.

Secondly, yes, as petty as it may seem, I find it agonisingly annoying and frustrating that so many supporters, (not just of the MFC but any club), can consistently talk up players on their list on the back of a draft pick number or a handful of games in which a player hits above 20 possies.

Examples being Gysberts and Morton. I have not based my opinion on Gysberts from the first couple/few games he played in which we saw some promising signs. I have based my opinion of the guy from his first game with us up until this point in time. Obviously that includes the time in which he has been injured etc.

The severity of these injuries are another argument altogether...

There's a reason my opinion of Gysberts is such a conservative one Tim. Can you guess why? Because I haven't based it on those first few games he had! Makes sense doesn't it?!

Never have I appointed myself as the 'guardian of well thought-out arguments'. That is a label you have given me. Can you see the irony in your post Tim? It's becoming quite humorous now...

As for the definition of 'inside mid'. That is another accusation you have made of me.. (I thought your post was meant to be pointing out my accusations of others?) I never defined what an 'inside mid' is, because people have varying interpretations of the word. I simply said that it was a confusing word in context

with what the poster was writing about, because my understanding of the word is as follows: a player who's strength is winning the contested pill. That being the basis. Better/more valuable ones will also possess strengths in other attributes. For example McKenzie is a an 'inside mid' and so is Josh Kennedy. Who is better? Why?

Your argument is as bad as mine. I know I say some things out of anger and frustration on demonland which may well be irrelevant in your mind. But this is a football forum, and deep down, I care about my fellow Melbourne supporters. To put it simply, it hurts me to see MFC supporters so positive and upbeat about young players who happen to be top draft picks of their year, only to be traded away, delisted etc a few years later. I know it happens to all clubs. But given the fact over the last however many years we have had the worst leaders/experienced crop of players within the AFL to teach/inspire the youth, a questionable recruiter in BP, a couple of coaches who didn't do us any favours, all of this culminating in a culture in decline.

No wonder we are seeing major changes at the MFC.

I love you all...

(Even you Rhino...)

Go and read what you wrote.

I'm not going to go into the rest of it - it is pointless. i too write stuff when I am angry and it is never a good idea.

All this BS about Gysberts being too slow and not big enough is a farce. He would have gained weight if kept on the list.

Not every AFL player is required to be quick and bulky (although this helps).

There were plenty of great players who were skinny and/or slow.

Greg Williams, Brett Lovett, Robert Flower etc. Its often said that a player may LOOK fast due to the fact that they make good decision when they have the ball.

I believe that Gysberts was one of these players and i find it very dissapointing that he was given away for some bloke whom i have never heard of.

Goodbye Jordie.

If you become a star I will hate you.

Because Gysberts, Martin, Cook and Morton we're all knocking down the door to make the best 22 in a pretty poor side.

We need to keep these deals in context - we're opening spots for blokes who want to play for the MFC and put in the effort required by the FD

Stop worrying about draft pick numbers and look at the bigger picture that losing these soft blokes will improve the list - even if it only for minor reasons in 2013

Yup you should do some more reasearch and realise not all 1st and second round picks make it either..... but thats not my point

My point is list space was cleared for players who want to put in the hard yards, and want to compete and win or develop mentor blokes who can.

I'm tired of this club being un-competitive - potential is a dirty word - deliver or f-off

Start naming skinny un-competitive players at Coll, Cats or Hawks who are given multiple years to deliver???? I can't think of too many........

Deviation. Indirectly it's now McLean and Pederson.

If pederson doesn't kick on, I will never hear the end of it from my Carlton mates.

Here's hoping.

Goodbye Jordie.

If you become a star I will hate you.

I think I already do. From North's AFL site :

http://www.kangaroos.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/4912/newsid/150291/default.aspx

“It wasn’t a great year for me but I’m the first to admit that,” Gysberts said.

“I’ve just got to put that behind me and take advantage of a fresh start at North now and do everything I can to play more senior games. North is an exciting club that’s headed in the right direction with a great young list so hopefully I can make them an ever better side.”

Gysberts will meet his new Roo team-mates when training starts on Tuesday, October 30 and will travel to Utah for his first altitude camp.

“I know the camp will be tough but I’m really looking forward to it. If it helps me become a better player, I’m all for it.”

Yeah, right. Where was that for the last three years kid ?

Smart choice of club. He'll be up against Adams, Bastinac, Cunnington, Greenwood, Swallow & Ziebell. They have him covered from A-Z

All this BS about Gysberts being too slow and not big enough is a farce. He would have gained weight if kept on the list.

Not every AFL player is required to be quick and bulky (although this helps).

There were plenty of great players who were skinny and/or slow.

Greg Williams, Brett Lovett, Robert Flower etc. Its often said that a player may LOOK fast due to the fact that they make good decision when they have the ball.

I believe that Gysberts was one of these players and i find it very dissapointing that he was given away for some bloke whom i have never heard of.

"There were plenty of great players who were skinny and/or slow."

But those players will always have one or two skill-sets that make them great, such as their vision, or handball, or kicking skills. Gysberts is slow, unfit and weak, but he also has no hurt factor with his handballing, or foot skills. Hysberts is good in close, he makes good decisions and he's tall, but that's about where it ends.

"i find it very disappointing that he was given away for some bloke whom i have never heard of."

This is probably the real crux of the matter. You and many others are gutted that we gave away a former first round pick for a guy playing VFL footy that you've never heard of. You have to back your club in and assume that footy experts know what they're doing. Pedersen fell out with important people at North as they developed Tarrant and Hansen to complement Petrie. But he can really play. He'll be the third banana in the forward-line to Dawes and Clark. He's 193cms, agile, a strong mark and an excellent kick. You'll be very surprised how good he is and this time next year will be wondering why North let him go. I'm loving the look of our new forward-line structure.

Here's a couple of short clips:

It's also worth noting that Gysberts kicking is average to poor.

He played 14 games for Casey this year, but I'll give stats for 13, as he only had one possession against Geelong before coming off with his jaw.

He had 60 efficient kicks and 80 inefficient. He averaged 19.7 disposals for those 13 completed games, which hardly shows he's an accumulator, or ball magnet.

As a comparison, Shane Valenti who plays a similar role had 189 efficient kicks and 89 inefficient kicks. What a disparity to Gysberts. He averaged 21.4 disposals. He gets more of the pill, uses it far better and is considered no more than a good VFL player.

Pedersen for Gysberts will be seen as a master stroke down the track.

This is what I know about Gysberts and why he was traded-

-he is not competitive at all in one on one drills

-he could not bench press 50kgs and was very ordinary with the other weights

-in today's football the club believed he is not strong enough to play as an inside mid and did not appear to want to improve in the strength area

-his endurance is rubbish and again he didn't appear to want to improve. Anyone that went to preseason would have observed this first hand

-he doesnt have a defensive side to his game which goes against the way neeld wants to play. Very similar to moloney.

-he was not a neeld favourite right from the start because of his work ethic and unlike blease was not prepared to turn it around

Neeld has made his decisions on soft footballers at our club and we are seeing the product of this.

I'll admit I'm a bad loser but even more I hate watching us get pumped so often. I'm happy to move on guys that aren't competitive. Gys is one of those guys. Viney and wines would crush him easily now in that area and hogan has already stated he hates losing. These are the guys I want at our club.

The high draft picks are just a by-product of us moving them on.

Can't bench press 50 kg? Surely an exaggeration ??? That is a nothing weight I'm pretty sure as rubbish as our list is they could all do more than that...

I still can't quite fathom how/why we needed to add a sweetener to this deal and downgrade our draft picks even further. North fans would be very very happy I'd imagine.

If the club was investing money, they'd be broke. Pick 4 now worth pick 88. That is called being smashed. Gysberts pick 12, now worth jack [censored]. Perhaps the board should resign on mass - this [censored] occurred under their watch.