Well ... Trenners had a great year then didn't he!?

He had a bad year ... and still finished 8th in B&F. Averaged 18 possessions. Put it this way, there were over 30 guys at the club behind him in the pecking order.

One of whom was Gysberts - one game last year, for 9 possessions.

Of that group only one (Jones) has a proven ability to get the ball in heavy traffic in contested situations. And much as I love Jonesy, while he gets it, he ain't too flash at getting it out to someone. You'd hope Grimes & Trengove can become inside ball winners. Maybe Viney & Pick 4. At the moment though, we need someone who can get it out of traffic, especially while out first ruck taps the ball to his bootlaces That's Gysberts main claim to fame. That's why I'd be hesitant to readily dismiss him

I respect your opinion, but of all the players I have listed I have Gys ahead of very few on this years form. If he can turn it around good on him, but I don't think trading him will devastate our list. Also I should say I don't particularly want to trade him for Pedersen, I am happy to leave it at 49 for Pedersen and take it or leave it. But if we were to trade Gys for Ray I would be very happy.

Busted jaw/ cheek and crook ankle, your being a bit harsh! Sheesh

I really hope Gys doesn't go for Pederson, would be an unfair deal for us.

I know a lot of people won't agree with this but I reckon it isn't entirely unreasonable to think that Jack Fitzpatrick could fill the role that we are trying to get Pederson for in 2013. At 200cm and 93kg (start of this year) he has shown that he is adept at playing deep forward as well as in the ruck for Casey.

Although he still has a bit of growing to do the fact that we will have Clark and Dawes there to ensure that he gets the 3rd/4th defender means he shouldn't be totally out of his depth. Anyway I think it's definitely not beyond him next year.

Gysberts for pederson & Campbell?

Both 25/26 so at least we'd get 6 seasons / 120 games out if them combined.

Not entirely, but he was a hell of a lot better than Gysberts, and for the record Gys played 16 games this year, 15 in the VFL, 1 in the AFL. That is hardly injured "all year"

Point Taken !

I respect your opinion, but of all the players I have listed I have Gys ahead of very few on this years form. If he can turn it around good on him, but I don't think trading him will devastate our list. Also I should say I don't particularly want to trade him for Pedersen, I am happy to leave it at 49 for Pedersen and take it or leave it. But if we were to trade Gys for Ray I would be very happy.

Fair enough but I'm not rating Gysberts on 2012. Partly for the reasons that Fence mentioned & partly because I suspect he's found it all pretty easy throughout his career & this was the first time he's really had the acid put on him. Some kids need more than one kick up the arse before the penny drops.

We need a lot from our midfield but clearances are king in footy at the moment. Farren Ray won't help in that department. He can run himself ragged but if no-one's getting the ball out, he might as well be in the stands with us.

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Yeah well that happens when your Captain plays more than an injured teammate!!

Happy with Trenners year were you??

he was actually doing what the coach was asking him to do which is far more than I can say for many of his teammates. He changed his game style and it took some time to click but his last qtr of the year was far improved. As for gys, I said the same thing about Brent. He should feel very fortunate that he is on a list at all, respect that the coach may know a bit more about the game than he does and stop being a sook. This is the culture we are trying to remove. If that's where he is at then see ya.

We don't NEED Pederson. He will be a stop-gap player when a big body like Clark, Dawes, Sellar or Frawley are injured.

Gysberts should be kept. He has a lot of untapped potential, but he must get fitter and bigger.

With Neeld's boundary conscious kick happy movement of the ball, tall marking targets will be very valuable to the team's ability to move the ball. I'm sure Neeld will be looking to take at least 3 tall forwards who are all capable of presenting and attracting the ball.

If we take Pederson the aim will be to play him all 22 games as a hit up target as opposed to a stop gap for the talls at either end

Fair enough but I'm not rating Gysberts on 2012. Partly for the reasons that Fence mentioned & partly because I suspect he's found it all pretty easy throughout his career & this was the first time he's really had the acid put on him. Some kids need more than one kick up the arse before the penny drops.

We need a lot from our midfield but clearances are king in footy at the moment. Farren Ray won't help in that department. He can run himself ragged but if no-one's getting the ball out, he might as well be in the stands with us.

At least we can agree Gys could go either way at this point, 2012 may be an anomaly or a sad sign of things to come.

As for Ray, I see him playing as a running half back, which is a role we have no-one capable of doing really well in the team. I would be backing Jones, Trenners, Grimes, Sylvia, Mckensie, potentially Viney and Wines and even Magner ahead of Gys in clearances right now, whereas I rate no player in our team as better than Ray off half back. PS I think Ray would be getting fed by the backline in rebound plays far more than he would be receiving clearances, that would be Blease, Howe etc. territory.

Remind me, how many games has the Gys played with the Dees (not Casey)? 19 I believe - three in his first season, 15 in 2011 and just one this year; as far as development goes, by all appearances, you would not believe he has had three years. I like him, but I really don't think we would get much for him.

Fractured wrist, ankle injury and broken jaw in the last 14 months.

No way, what's so good about Pederson anyways. He can't even get a game a north. Not worth trading Gys For Cam and a pick

His two senior games was double the amount Gysberts could muster.

We have had 3 years waiting to see Gys potential, he only managed one game this year in a weak side that is a testimony of his value to the MFC. If he wants out, then trade him. He could be something special but he is not anything special at the moment. Neeld is getting mainly players who can play his style of football now, not guys who need 4 or more years to warm up, put on weight, learn to kick better, etc..

Actual players win flags, not potential players.

What are Norf's picks?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/148933/default.aspx

Thanks for sharing Norm Smith's Curse,

If this eventuates, I hope it is Gysberts + Pick 49 (with or without) FOR Pick 15 + Pedersen, that seems like a fair trade to me.

I certainly hope it's not Gysberts FOR Pedersen + Pick 38 or 39.

Saying all this, I rate Gysberts and I also want Pedersen. Furthermore, would we be able to land Stringer at 15... I bloody hope so! Although it wouldn't surprise me if he went as early as pick 5 or 6 (the other being Wines or O'Rourke) by the Dogs as he has trained there, it's said they were very impressed with him and they missed out on Hogan (screaming for a ready to go forward target).

No way known North will give up pick 15 for Gysberts.

Word was a while back that he was disgruntled. Seems a pity though as he looked the goods early on.

Hmmm. Maybe we need someone around the club that is good at gruntling players. Or should that be adding gruntle? What is gruntle anyway?

Trenners year was a million times better than Gysberts, and you still want him on our list.

He would replace Martin in the Fwd pocket rotating through the ruck.

I wonder if he would play a similar role to what Brad Miller did off the HF line, leading up high using his mobility.

With Dawes rotating about the forward 60 & Clarke FP.

I think I see Howe on the wing & going into the middle on occasion.

I'd have Sylvia starting inside & resting in a pocket &/or bench as needed. He takes greens role part time & play mid.

I could just see Pederson at 193cm against Sandilands, NikNat, Cox, Kruezer, Maric, Jacobs, Mumford etc etc.

With Riv,,, & Martin likely out, I reckon if Sellar stays he'll concentrate on playing tall back. With Frawley taking the most dangerous talls or smalls.

Garland 3rd tall back. TMac taking the appropriate tall forward matchup. Watts doing the Rivers role & rebound, playing point guard.

I think Pederson will be trained into the Leroy Brown type of role, mostly forward, but also back when needed.

Cannot understand how Gysberts & Pederson are in the same negotiation. Please. I'm a Gyys fan - I saw his first 3 games - Pederson was a mature age rookie who played 2 games this year - FFS !!

Seriously - any chance the coaches might actually take some resonsiibity for developing players, working on weaknesses -I suspect not

Fractured wrist, ankle injury and broken jaw in the last 14 months.

Exactly... so would you say there have been three years of development go into him?

Cannot understand how Gysberts & Pederson are in the same negotiation. Please. I'm a Gyys fan - I saw his first 3 games - Pederson was a mature age rookie who played 2 games this year - FFS !!

Seriously - any chance the coaches might actually take some resonsiibity for developing players, working on weaknesses -I suspect not

I just want to be on record as saying that I'd far rather Pedersen than Gysberts.

I'll be judged accordingly in the fullness of time.

I just want to be on record as saying that I'd far rather Pedersen than Gysberts.

I'll be judged accordingly in the fullness of time.

Thank you. The witness may step down........

Gysberts is not in the best 30 players at the moment.

Stay or go, I'm not fussed - the kid's lazy.

North want Gysberts AND a pick for Pedersen. Not the other way round.